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Confirmed Salamanders Successors


Jareddm
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Seriously though, it's great to finally have some official Sallies successors. It was really odd for them to not have at least some.

I know, I was just wondering: were there like only 1000 Salamanders flying around the galaxy before this?

 

Less.  The Salamanders had 7 companies of 120 marines each.  So only 840 + command and support.  People mentioned the Storm Giants and the Black Dragons (and possibly the Brothers of the Anvil) as possible successors, but these are the first 100% confirmed ones.

 

That seems crazy to me.  Every other loyal founding legion seems like it has at least 10 times that many marines counting successsors, or just straight up flouting the codex organization like Space Wolves and Black Templars. 

 

At least I just got to the bottom of why no one ever sees Salamanders.

It's probably because the Salamanders were almost wiped out during the Horus Heresy (Drop Site Massacre utterly wrecked them) and Vulkan had an agreement that his Legion wouldn't be broken down into Chapters.... Because there was only around a thousand of them left.

 

Afterwards, they never really used Salamanders geneseed (or confirmed cases, as the case with the Black Dragons, Storm Giants and Brothers of the Anvil) until the Ultima Founding. For.... Some reason

 

Yeah that definitely makes sense, it just seems crazy that they have just been hanging on by such a tenuous thread this whole time, like that's really really slim numbers and a single catastrophe of the sort that is common in 40k could have wiped them out.  Like what if the Tyranids came for Nocturne instead of Baal?  Who would have answered the call for assistance? 

 

It seems like their struggle against being wiped out in the wake of the Heresy could have been played up a lot more, or was that always a part of their story and appeal and I've just been out to lunch?

 

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Yeah that definitely makes sense, it just seems crazy that they have just been hanging on by such a tenuous thread this whole time, like that's really really slim numbers and a single catastrophe of the sort that is common in 40k could have wiped them out.  Like what if the Tyranids came for Nocturne instead of Baal?  Who would have answered the call for assistance? 

 

It seems like their struggle against being wiped out in the wake of the Heresy could have been played up a lot more, or was that always a part of their story and appeal and I've just been out to lunch?

No that was a major part of their HH lore. They weren't a large Legion before the Heresy (they had a habit of being near-suicidal in their tactics with a stubbornness that'd make Dorn proud) and afterwards were basically only a Chapter (Legion terminology) or so in strength.

 

Basically, their whole thing in the HH was "can we survive this, and will we even make a difference to the Loyalist cause?"

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Iirc in the 2019 codex and the supplement it was said that they have been sort of recovering and building a 5th(?) battle company implying that they now are 8 companies in the making, but it was never and still is not reflected in the tables that describe the companies, so...

 

No idea what to make of it. Seems like the person responsible for the codexes just has been copy pasting and mixing up all the lore over various books without properly reading them and the little existing lore to adjust everything. Would also line up with them just essentially removing Harath Shen and Pellas Mirsan, without too much of an explanation and that the captain of the 2nd company is now somehow very similarly named to Adrax Agatone's (dead) predecessor (N'Keln vs. N'Kelm).

 

Of course this could also be attributed to their usual excuse, that all lore is always just hearsay from one perspective or another, to not need to really care about some sort of consistency...

Edited by gorg_graggel
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Yeah that definitely makes sense, it just seems crazy that they have just been hanging on by such a tenuous thread this whole time, like that's really really slim numbers and a single catastrophe of the sort that is common in 40k could have wiped them out.  Like what if the Tyranids came for Nocturne instead of Baal?  Who would have answered the call for assistance? 

 

It seems like their struggle against being wiped out in the wake of the Heresy could have been played up a lot more, or was that always a part of their story and appeal and I've just been out to lunch?

No that was a major part of their HH lore. They weren't a large Legion before the Heresy (they had a habit of being near-suicidal in their tactics with a stubbornness that'd make Dorn proud) and afterwards were basically only a Chapter (Legion terminology) or so in strength.

 

Basically, their whole thing in the HH was "can we survive this, and will we even make a difference to the Loyalist cause?"

 

It's super obvious by now, I definitely haven't read the Heresy series lol.  Look at me getting my naive mind blown by basic chapter lore. 

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Want to chime in an throw in a bit of a potential factor in light of the Wolves getting successors.

 

The Sallies, Wolves and Alphas were what was collectively known as the 'trefoil' Legions, namely Legions that the Emp tinkered with, raised and trained in secret. All of which would go on to show certain weird traits, namely behavioral ones. 

 

Their Legion appendix notes that the Sallies were actually unnervingly suicidal before Vulkan showed up and that alot of their traits seemed unnervingly consistent across the Legion.

 

More importantly though, this means that their gene-seed's exact records do not actually exist outside of the Emp and his research cadres (including the guy ate). So a solid theory is that their previous lack of successors and the weirdness around their speculated successors, might be the result of the Administratum and Mechanicus more or less having to fly blind with their gene-line.

 

Cawl on the other hand has access to both 'fresh' stock and the memories of one of the few people that ever actually had access to the data on Sally gene-seed.

 

Might as well add that while apothecaries are brilliant, alot of the complexities of gene-seed are next to unknowable. For context the wulfen were engineered into the Sixth but even during the Heresy the Wolf Priests could not explain what caused it (while Russ did know).

 

Just a fun tidbit to toss out there, there is a whole lot more to the Sallies than you would guess at a first glance. Its even insetting actually that their good reputation sort of lead people to forgetting they were raised alongside with the Wolves and Alphas.

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  • 3 weeks later...

How about we throw up some artwork (done by yours truly) that shows what some of these official Salamanders Successor Chapters actually look like, shall we?

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Chapter Name: Covenant of Fire

Founding: Ultima Founding

Successors of: Salamanders

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Unknown

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Battle-Cry: Unknown

Colours: Orange, Black & Gold

History

The Chapter was among those Salamanders Successor Chapters that were created by Archmagos Dominus Cawl, during the Ultima Founding. Cawl did so without informing the Salamanders and when they learned of this, they began making contact with their Successors Chapters. Once contact was made with the Covenant of Fire, the Salamanders then sent one of their Chaplains to teach their Successor of the Promethean Cult. The Covenant of Fire eagerly embraced it, and swiftly applying the wisdom of their gene-sire Vulkan. As a Chapter, the Covenant of Fire crave knowledge of the Imperium they fight for and seek out lore wherever they can find it. In doing so, the Chapter hopes that this information can help them bring light to darkness. Conversely, they purge any sign of heretical material they find, knowing that its knowledge is a false light that leads only to ruin.

gallery_4536_16772_78381.png

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Chapter Name: Dragonspears

Founding: Ultima Founding

Successors of: Salamanders

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: N/A; Fleet-Based

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Battle-Cry: Unknown

Colours: Light Teal & Black

History

The Chapter was among those Salamanders Successor Chapters that were created by Archmagos Dominus Cawl, during the Ultima Founding. Cawl did so without informing the Salamanders and when they learned of this, they began making contact with their Successors Chapters. However, since the Dragonspears are a fleet-based Chapter, it took many years for the Salamanders to make contact with them. By then, the Dragonspears had won renown for fighting alongside the Space Wolves against the Orks at the Gnarion Reef. The experience had led them to become expert Ork hunters, and they had also developed a very strong culture of self-sacrifice and endocannibalism. This was done to ensure that the Dragonspears' lost Battle Brothers, never fell from their memories.

During the Psychic Awakening, the Chapter was among the Imperial forces that took part in The Chancyll Suppression. The Dragonspears later upheld old oaths of brotherhood towards the Space Wolves and joined their efforts to stop the Great WAAAGH!.

Notable Campaigns

*Gnarion Reef (Unknown Date.M42)

*The Chancyll Suppression (Unknown Date.M42) – Occurred during the Prosperine War. The Chapter sent 8 companies in support of this campaign.

*Great WAAAGH! (Unknown Date.M42)

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Chapter Name: Dark Krakens

Founding: Ultima Founding

Successors of: Salamanders

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Naktis

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Battle-Cry: Unknown

Colours: Black & Purple

History

The Chapter was among those Salamanders Successor Chapters that were created by Archmagos Dominus Cawl, during the Ultima Founding. The Dark Krakens' Homeworld is Naktis and their Fortress Monastery resides on the world's only land mass capable of supporting it. Naktis' vast seas are replete with bioluminecnet megafauna and shoal-predators, which its native population hunt for sport and nourishment. The Dark Krakens echo this in battle seeking out the largest foes - whether that be in terms of physical size or sheer numbers.

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Chapter Name: Black Vipers

Founding: Ultima Founding

Successors of: Salamanders

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Unknown

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Battle-Cry: Unknown

Colours: Black & Red

History

The Chapter was among those Salamanders Successor Chapters that were created by Archmagos Dominus Cawl, during the Ultima Founding. Cawl did so without informing the Salamanders and when they learned of this, they began making contact with their Successors Chapters. However, the Salamanders accidentally learned of the Black Vipers many years after they discovered the existence of their other Successors. Like they did with the others, the Salamanders sent out one of their Chaplains, to teach the Black Vipers of the Promethean Cult. However their chosen Chaplain, Sur K'gosi, disappeared without a trace before reaching them and the Black Vipers have not learned of the Cult's teachings. As a Chapter, they appear to claim no world for their own, and spurn contact with allies on the rare occasion the Chapter is seen at war. Wherever the Black Vipers has been seen, though, agents of Archmagos Dominus Cawl have never been far away…

Enjoy folks!

Edited by Algrim Whitefang
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I appreciate the fact Algrim Whitefang put in GENUINE EFFORT in these works. Games Workshop has long suffered because its own employees often put out half-baked backstories with no distinguishing features other than "Ultramarines iz awesome!!!" and "grimdark, no hope, no point in doing anything but to lie down and wait for death."
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I appreciate the fact Algrim Whitefang put in GENUINE EFFORT in these works. Games Workshop has long suffered because its own employees often put out half-baked backstories with no distinguishing features other than "Ultramarines iz awesome!!!" and "grimdark, no hope, no point in doing anything but to lie down and wait for death."

Not sure what you mean. These are all official successors with the lore blurbs that were in the codex.
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  • 9 months later...

We have one more named, in the latest WD (#467) do we have a Dark Kraken tell a Salamander that "There are many [salamander successors] through the Ultima Founding" but that he only know of two others by name: the Dragonspears (which we already know of) and the Iron Drakes (new!).

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There was a Chapter named the Iron Drakes in M37. They were among the Judged Chapters - those condemned to the Abyssal Crusade. Some, potentially all*, members of the Iron Drakes became the Grey Death, a Heretic Astartes warband that is Excommunicate Traitoris.

 

These new Iron Drakes might be a rebirth of the original Chapter (presumably the original Chapter was descended from the Salamanders, though that wasn't disclosed previously) or they might simply be a totally new Chapter created in the Ultima Founding (with the lineage of the original Chapter remaining unknown/undisclosed).

 

 

 

 

* The original presentation of the Abyssal Crusade was unclear with regard to how many members of each of the Chapters fell to Chaos. The phrasing implied that all members fell and they became X warband, but the lore also made it clear that at least some of the Chapters had loyalists that later returned to the Imperium to exact their revenge. The Iron Drakes don't have survivors mentioned, but GW appears to have left themselves some wiggle room, potentially allowing the Iron Drakes to have survived with only a portion falling to Chaos.

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  • 2 months later...

So, I guess the Black Dragons have now officially been acknowledged as Salamander successors. (Watch out for a potential stealth edit adding the 'rumored' back...)

 

"[...]

Successors of the Salamanders, the Black Dragons trace their origins to the Cursed Founding. Let’s consult the checklist – no scales, wings, long necks, or fire. Just bony, blade-like growths jutting from their bodies*. That’s pretty gnarly, but they’re not dragons."

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/24/when-is-a-dragon-not-a-dragon-more-often-than-youd-think/

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I mean, the Salamanders book have it basically outright stated that they're successors, as a Black Dragon joins the Salamanders and (iirc) a Salamanders Apothecary states that Zartath (the Black Dragon) has genetic markers of the Salamanders in his gene-seed

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