North China Open - 2k

[Morticon]

 

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere  

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back!

So now I have a chance of winning "best in faction" for BA? if it exists haha

 

Haven't had the chance to test it yet but I'm sure null zone would go a long way to reducing that impenetrable wall of saves that DG get. A culexus would have a big impact, more so combined with null zone and Reliquary of Gathalmor. Which will happen when things get close up in the middle very quickly. -3 to psychic tests and? halve the result with D3 wounds for failing the test.

 

Even a vindicare would at least cause the DG commander to adjust his plans. If you can take down their Typhus / Biologus / other buffer guys quick then null zone will let you make short work. A double helldrake list beat the nasty DG list in ningbo recently by taking those characters out T1 or T2

 

 

 

That anti-psyker combo is gorgeous. Looks tough to get off- but is tasty as all hell. 

[Karhedron]

Shaezus -  The DG player I know of will be rocking this (or at least he was last game)

 

DP with wings, claws and Iron Clot Furnace.

Chaos Lord in Termy Armour

Chaos Daemon HQ of some sort

2x Foul Blightspawn

 

 

3x4 Nurglings

2x 10 Poxwalkers

 

2x 3 Blight-Haulers

 

3x Crawlers (entropy Cannons)

That is nasty. I always think it is wrong when a CSM army has almost no actual Marines in it.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Karhedron

[Charlo]

 

 

After a lot of tweaking and toiling and playtesting, I've sadly decided not to go with BA this time round Unfortunately, aside from the Sanguinor one-trick and some special units in the way of the SangGuard there's nothing the BA can do at the moment that I cant replicate elsewhere

 

I'll still be playing my style of things...but defs with a diff codex.

 

Here's hoping our guys get their good stuff back!

What you going with?

 

Is Red Thirst/ Savage Echoes not attractive enough?

 

 

its amazing- but its ONLY that.  Aside from our unique units  (which, Sang Guard  aside  are not that great atm), we're super super  vanilla.  There's no real additional tactical advantage that other lists dont offer or cant  reproduce. The  amount of other marine lists that can replicate the +1 to wound is just offensive

 

I made a list I really, really liked-but every time i did, when I ported the rules to another marine set it was just miles better- which irked me.  

 

I'm going with this at the moment: 

 

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike (140) Warlord.

Master of Sanctity Upgrade.

Canticle of Hate.

Catechism of Fire.

Free Relic: Vox

Free Warlord Trait: Master Orator

Tempered by Wisdom(-1cp): Rites of War

 

Phobos Librarian:

(125)

Chief Librarian Upgrade 

Extra Trait(-1cp): Psychic Mastery

Relic(-1cp): Tome of Malcador

Powers: Tenebrous Curse, Shrouding, Temporal Corridor, Storm Wreathed.

 

5x Intercessors- Powerfist, Autobolters (110)

5x Infiltrators- helix gauntlet (130)

5x Incursors (105)

5x Incursors (105)

 

10x Vanguard Veterans (307) 4xThunder Hammers, 3x Lightning Claws,10xStormShields,10xJump Packs

 

5x Vanguard Veterans (138)- Powerfist (sergeant),1xLight ing Claw, 5x Storm Shield, 5x Jump Packs

 

5x Assault Terminators (210): 4xThunderHammer& Storm Shield, 2x Lighting Claw, Teleport homer.

 

3x  Eradicators (120)

 

5+1x Bikes+Attack Bike:(235) 2x Meltagun, 1xCombi-melta,1x Multi-melta

 

2x Attack Bikes (110): 2Multimelta

 

2x Attack Bikes (110): 2Multimelta

 

Land Speeder Storm (55)

 

 

 

 

So White Scars? I don't blame you.

 

The +1D in Assault Doc for them has utterly shot up in relevancy with the advent of 2W marines, turning even an Astartes Chainsword into a menace of AP-2 2D D:

[Morticon]

I despise how theyre better than us in combat

[Morticon]

2nd place for my White Scars, with a fair showing by Shaezus' BA at 3rd.

 

Space Wolves battled DA in the finals with SW taking it undefeated (though, were there enough time for both players, it would have seen a DA win)

[Jolemai]

Sounds like taking White Scars held you back...

[Morticon]

Hahhaha- well played, well played :P 

To be honest, White Scars are broken broken.  I played a little poorly vs the SW, he rolled REALLY hot on some crucial, crucial rolls and he went first with a list designed to go first - i think i could have taken him 2/3 games.  

 

I was just super in control of all the other games.  Even vs DG who i had lost to the last three games.

 

That being said, i was reminded of why people fear the BA when I played Tim.  Man.....the +1 to wound and +1 to charge - and the SG...so so so tasty.  

[keeblerartillery]

I just played in and won a tourney with BA yesterday- sang guard with a priest pushing them to assault doctrine were outright MVPs

[Shaezus]

All of my opponents - soritas, space wolves, white scars and Raven guard - had brutal turn 1 charge abilities. And I went second every time, ouch. That SW list relies on first turn and he pulled off every single charge against me despite me using obstacles to slow him. It was rough.

 

BA are in a weak spot for now but... is the sanguinor a counter to these lists? If he chooses to fight the sanguinor first, you get to interrupt before the next unit fights. Though I'm not sure if the counter attack strat could be used if sangy survives, as he would fight next.

 

Potential 4CP for duty in death on sangy and counter attack with the charge target, pricey but it's a big charge - breaker??

[keeblerartillery]

All of my opponents - soritas, space wolves, white scars and Raven guard - had brutal turn 1 charge abilities. And I went second every time, ouch. That SW list relies on first turn and he pulled off every single charge against me despite me using obstacles to slow him. It was rough.

 

BA are in a weak spot for now but... is the sanguinor a counter to these lists? If he chooses to fight the sanguinor first, you get to interrupt before the next unit fights. Though I'm not sure if the counter attack strat could be used if sangy survives, as he would fight next.

 

Potential 4CP for duty in death on sangy and counter attack with the charge target, pricey but it's a big charge - breaker??

I think a judiciar is actually the key here. It’s ability to make any unit within 3 in fight - “after every eligible unit” (meaning absolutely dead last) can have a huge impact.

[Morticon]

I just played in and won a tourney with BA yesterday- sang guard with a priest pushing them to assault doctrine were outright MVPs

 

How  did  you play  assault doc?

[keeblerartillery]

I’m assuming you mean whether savage echoes was triggered or not - I asked the TO for a pre-tourney ruling and he said it does trigger it since every other circumstance of this in marine armies triggers their special rule.

 

If not - check out the sang priest data sheet. During your command phase, sang priest can push one unit to assault doctrine when they make melee attacks! Absolutely brutal with half swords and half axes - sang guard get +1 to hit from the warlord, 5A on the charge (with echoes) so wounding everything on 3s and 4s pretty much. And at -3 and 4 AP. Just awesome.

[Black_Sky]

ackchyually both the priest and Corbulo overrides both devastator and tactical doctrine, and forces units into assault doctrine for all attacks.

Which could affect who you want to apply the buff to. Unless of course an attack is different from a shooting attack, and I've missed the memo.

 

 

Until the start of your next Command phase, if the Tactical Doctrine or Devastator Doctrine is active for your army, then each time a model in that unit makes an attack, the Assault Doctrine is considered to be active for that attack instead.

 

[Hintzy]

I think you're right. If you put it on SangGuard in turn two, for example, they would lose the AP on their boltguns and gain it on their melee weapons.

[Xenith]

 

ackchyually both the priest and Corbulo overrides both devastator and tactical doctrine, and forces units into assault doctrine for all attacks.

Which could affect who you want to apply the buff to. Unless of course an attack is different from a shooting attack, and I've missed the memo.

 

 

Until the start of your next Command phase, if the Tactical Doctrine or Devastator Doctrine is active for your army, then each time a model in that unit makes an attack, the Assault Doctrine is considered to be active for that attack instead.

 

 

As I recall, you pick a unit for it to apply to with the priest, while Corbulo affects everyone within 6". So you want to keep Corby away from your shooting units if you want them to use Dev or Tac doctrine. 

[keeblerartillery]

That’s how I played it at least - command phase priest just put them in assault doctrine. No extra AP on the Angelus - not that it mattered since they brutalized in CC

[Shaezus]

 

All of my opponents - soritas, space wolves, white scars and Raven guard - had brutal turn 1 charge abilities. And I went second every time, ouch. That SW list relies on first turn and he pulled off every single charge against me despite me using obstacles to slow him. It was rough.

BA are in a weak spot for now but... is the sanguinor a counter to these lists? If he chooses to fight the sanguinor first, you get to interrupt before the next unit fights. Though I'm not sure if the counter attack strat could be used if sangy survives, as he would fight next.

Potential 4CP for duty in death on sangy and counter attack with the charge target, pricey but it's a big charge - breaker??

I think a judiciar is actually the key here. It’s ability to make any unit within 3 in fight - “after every eligible unit” (meaning absolutely dead last) can have a huge impact.

Absolute love this idea. Only drawback is people know what he does and make sure to keep out of his bubble when charging. You could pop the 3CP heroic intervention strat with him though. The whirlwind with suppressing fire seems more reliable and flexible

[Karhedron]

The WW does look good and is not bad for chipping wounds off backfield Objective campers and other units hiding out of LOS. The thing with the WW is you have to decide in your turn, which unit you want to penalise in the opponent's turn, rather than countering whatever rocks up to your lines. Still, if your opponent has an obvious hammer unit, it is still fine.

[keeblerartillery]

Can confirm the value of the judiciar. He literally scared a knight warden out of a heroic intervention and then drew an entire knights fire away from other targets. Next game He used his ability to make a daemon prince fight last and therefore get butchered by bladeguard.

[Morticon]

Can confirm the value of the judiciar. He literally scared a knight warden out of a heroic intervention and then drew an entire knights fire away from other targets. Next game He used his ability to make a daemon prince fight last and therefore get butchered by bladeguard.

 

I'm surprised they didnt play around the 3".  The range is a dealbreaker for me now. 

 

I’m assuming you mean whether savage echoes was triggered or not - I asked the TO for a pre-tourney ruling and he said it does trigger it since every other circumstance of this in marine armies triggers their special rule.

 

If not - check out the sang priest data sheet. During your command phase, sang priest can push one unit to assault doctrine when they make melee attacks! Absolutely brutal with half swords and half axes - sang guard get +1 to hit from the warlord, 5A on the charge (with echoes) so wounding everything on 3s and 4s pretty much. And at -3 and 4 AP. Just awesome.

 

Also, really nice of your TO to allow savage echoes.   I'm hoping it gets FAQed to allow it - because currently RAW it does not.  

 

Also, small, but important correction!!  it's not one unit that is pushed into assault doc. It's all Character and Core units within 6"  - so be careful of putting him next to your shooty support- or you lose the AP bonus there, too. 

[Shaezus]

The WW does look good and is not bad for chipping wounds off backfield Objective campers and other units hiding out of LOS. The thing with the WW is you have to decide in your turn, which unit you want to penalise in the opponent's turn, rather than countering whatever rocks up to your lines. Still, if your opponent has an obvious hammer unit, it is still fine.

This is why I'm looking at the sanguinor.

 

As a bonus...If he survives, he falls back and charges the opponents mid or backfield objectives. Super aggressive lists would be vulnerable to him

[SnorriSnorrison]

The WW does look good and is not bad for chipping wounds off backfield Objective campers and other units hiding out of LOS. The thing with the WW is you have to decide in your turn, which unit you want to penalise in the opponent's turn, rather than countering whatever rocks up to your lines. Still, if your opponent has an obvious hammer unit, it is still fine.

Is it actually clear that the WW makes something fight last, as in dead last? I think this only deters chargers, but BA units charging could still be interrupted by a unit under Suppression fire.

I thought there was some ambiguity in the wording at least...

[Xenith]

 

Also, small, but important correction!!  it's not one unit that is pushed into assault doc. It's all Character and Core units within 6"  - so be careful of putting him next to your shooty support- or you lose the AP bonus there, too. 

 

That's Corbulo only, normal priest you pick one unit within 6" and that gets assault doctrine. Corbulo is all units within 6". 

[Shaezus]

Is it actually clear that the WW makes something fight last, as in dead last? I think this only deters chargers, but BA units charging could still be interrupted by a unit under Suppression fire.

I thought there was some ambiguity in the wording at least...

Suppression Fire means the unit "..cannot be selected to fight until all eligible units from your army have done so". Going by this wording, it can't be selected for the counter attack stratagem and can't even fight before units that were already locked in combat

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

Is it actually clear that the WW makes something fight last, as in dead last? I think this only deters chargers, but BA units charging could still be interrupted by a unit under Suppression fire.

I thought there was some ambiguity in the wording at least...

Suppression Fire means the unit "..cannot be selected to fight until all eligible units from your army have done so". Going by this wording, it can't be selected for the counter attack stratagem and can't even fight before units that were already locked in combat

There’s an FAQ for the Counter Attack stratagem though that says you can interrupt that sequence and the wording is a bit unclear - suppression fire says you can’t fight, counter attack FAQ says you can. :/