Postmortem on New Codex Games

[_Valten_]

Fantastic thank you!

 

Sorry, time for a few more questions if you don’t mind.

 

Have you proxied any of the heavy intercessors in any of your games? They don’t seem to have the output, but marching obsec gravis up to a mid board objective backed up with aggressors and a chief apothecary could be quite potent.

 

What are your thoughts on the redemptor chassis? Would a few backed up with a techmarine form a decent mobile fire base and counter punch?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Heavy Intercessors can have solid RoF, moreso than Intercessors.

[Captain Idaho]

I agree with Prot's assessment. It's unfortunate that the new toys aren't quite as good as what is already there, but then it's great GW are more conservative with their Primaris rather than smashing us over the head with OP units.

 

Though against other armies I still think Eradicators are good, just not Attack Bikers good.

 

I'm interested in the new Gladiator tanks just for how cool they look. Any proxying done?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We still has heavy Intercessors coming as well... can’t wait .

[Prot]

I agree with Prot's assessment. It's unfortunate that the new toys aren't quite as good as what is already there, but then it's great GW are more conservative with their Primaris rather than smashing us over the head with OP units.

 

Though against other armies I still think Eradicators are good, just not Attack Bikers good.

 

I'm interested in the new Gladiator tanks just for how cool they look. Any proxying done?

 

 

No I haven't done proxying of them or the Heavy Assault Intercessor. I haven't gotten that far yet. I'm still trying to get good, solid, feedback from the existing unit changes and new units. So for the new stuff I've played ATV's, Firestrikes, and I don't include the Indomitus stuff in that as we know that is a pretty solid release.

 

I've noticed a lot of the units have changed either in a minor or major way. Not much hasn't been affected in some way.

 

Next game I am considering pulling ATV's. I don't hate them, but they are pricey as a 2-3 man unit. I want to get multi redemptors in, and more troops.

 

When Gladiators come out, my Ultra's are probably getting 3. I'll force myself to try this with the new Techmarine. I don't foresee this going too well, but I feel like I'm a month out from having to buy them.

 

I kind of want to try the Executioners since I have two fully painted. I have such a bad taste in my mouth from the Repulsors though. They just disappear and are so awkward now. 

[Captain Idaho]

Now you mention it... Been thinking about the old method of taking multiple Land Raiders to provide saturation of toughness 8 and how that could potentially work well with the slightly cheaper Gladiator as back up.

 

It might not work but a Land Raider and 2 Gladiators could be quite dangerous.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m still planning to take some armor for my Templar army but IMO they need it (maybe lol) to help get into melee. The new Necron heavy destroyer unit will rip right through any armor so I’m quite hesitant to use it for my Ultramarines . Not against though.

[Kenzaburo]

I was definitely planning on taking a repulsor as transport for my captain and his CC entourage as well as a gladiator. I won't touch the impulsor, because i loathe how it looks, tho.

 

I might also look at one of the new speeders as a fast anti-tank harasser. Still, all the primaris vehicles have insane PL/points costs. And I'd still prefer my Primaris Captain to ride in a LR Crusader, while dropping Assault Intercessors in drop pods. 

[Prot]

I still have a very strong feeling that after the Gladiator drops, and the primary rush of sales is over, that we see a point drop in the other Repulsor chassis tanks.

 

I am considering a dual Repulsor Executioner list for my next experiment. Probably a horrible idea, but it certainly would be very challenging to compete with. 

 

My tendency for the next game leans towards dreadnoughts, which are very fun now. I'm putting together a second Redemptor after seeing the one I have in game. The Aggressors are still a very good angle for Ultramarines to use, but I'd really like to find a different Primaris angle that will work. I'm not seeing it yet, but I'm open to suggestions? 

 

(P.S. Next game is tomorrow.)

[Kallas]

So, I've been thinking about the Ultramarines' Sons of Guilliman Doctrine bonus, and how it's kinda mostly pointless beyond Bolter Discipline and Infantry Heavy Weapons - but I have no 9th Ed games under my belt; what is your experience with it Prot?

 

Do you think it's still useful? Have you had any notable uses of it, where it had a decent impact on the game?

[Prot]

So, I've been thinking about the Ultramarines' Sons of Guilliman Doctrine bonus, and how it's kinda mostly pointless beyond Bolter Discipline and Infantry Heavy Weapons - but I have no 9th Ed games under my belt; what is your experience with it Prot?

 

Do you think it's still useful? Have you had any notable uses of it, where it had a decent impact on the game?

 

 

I think it is still useful, but extremely situational now. 

 

So one thing that makes it decent in my games is some armies are playing bumper cars to shut down shooting. (I did it with my Eldar for about a dozen games, it was the only way I could win with Serpents bumping units). You can't do this against Ultra's. In fact 2 games ago I think it was Tau. The Tau player kept taking his transports and banging into my infantry... Plasma Inceptors. I kept reminding him it won't do much... he kept forgetting and really he couldn't shut me down the way he was used to against other armies.

 

The above, again, is situational, but another example of why I take flamer Aggressors now: Last Necron game the guy was fielding a ton of Wraiths up front, and behind a large column of those GW crates. I saw he was going for a 1-2 punch with another assault unit. He decided to use the Wraiths to 'warp' through the crates, and slam into my aggressors, thus avoiding a turn of full out flamer damage. Again it didn't work. I pulled out, all the army shot at the Wraiths and he was disappointed to realize he was going to take 5 x 2D6 full flamage in the xenos face.

 

Situational again? Sure, but at least I can do it without spending any CP. 

 

The bad news is vehicles. Really it's usually not worth it because the vehicle takes a hit on all weapons when it retreats, but the reality is if you just stay there then you can blast away and only the heavy weapons are -1 anyway. So it's not that great there, unless you have tanks with blast weapons.

 

So I guess you'd have to decide if your meta sees a lot of that sort of 'tie up' play like I do here. (I actually started the craze in one of my groups, and it's annoying to have it used against you. :) )

 

It certainly is not as strong as before. Not even close because the whole move/shoot penalties for most vehicles are gone anyway, so it is compounded with a reduction in the pay off of the super Doctrine as well. 

[Meletiah]

Hi,

 

What I understand is vehicule in 9th are not worth to take, except for Dreadnought. But what the case for Whirlwind with/without Vengeance option? I'm asking because of the Stratagem that look great.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m not sold on them this edition due to smaller size of board .

[Kallas]

 

So, I've been thinking about the Ultramarines' Sons of Guilliman Doctrine bonus, and how it's kinda mostly pointless beyond Bolter Discipline and Infantry Heavy Weapons - but I have no 9th Ed games under my belt; what is your experience with it Prot?

 

Do you think it's still useful? Have you had any notable uses of it, where it had a decent impact on the game?

 

 

I think it is still useful, but extremely situational now. 

 

[...]

 

Thank you for the insight - but it seems like you were mostly referring to the Codex Discipline Chapter Tactic (Fall Back and shoot at -1) rather than the Sons of Guilliman Doctrine bonus (In Tactical as long as you don't Advance/Fall Back, you are considered to have Remained Stationary).

 

The CT, to me, seems very useful, as you mentioned; it stops bumper car plays, and it lets you use things like Aggressors more effectively by getting your shots where you need, rather than how its dictated by your opponent.

 

Thanks for the info about the CT though!

[Prot]

Oops, sorry about that. My misunderstanding.

 

It's not a massively different answer. I do look for things that definitely take advantage of it. For me, in my games, it's been Suppressors. T2-T3 I love the mobility without the penalty.

 

Secondly, Devs in a pod. T2-T3. They are quite often not within an aura range, so that is a nice little boost. 

 

Not much else that I use really seems to benefit though. (At least in the games I'm playing) As you suggest, it certainly meant more in 8th.

[emperorpants]

Yeah, our super doctrine is much diminished from what it used to be, and could use some adjustments. That said, there are still some uses for it.

 

-Heavy eradicators will like it.

-Eradicators with multi meltas will also like it.

-Devestators will like it.

-Intercessors with bolt rifles and stalker bolt rifles will like it

-heavy intercessors with their stalker equivalent and heavy bolt rifle will like it.

-suppressors will like it, as noted by Prot.

-heavy hellblasters also can use it.

[Charlo]

It never clicked how good a Dev Pod will be in Ultras with the lack of penalty to shoot.... Niiiice.

[emperorpants]

It never clicked how good a Dev Pod will be in Ultras with the lack of penalty to shoot.... Niiiice.

Especially if you pop the re roll 1s strat.

[Meletiah]

I am still learning all the rope for the Ultramarines.

 

I have some questions.

 

1. For the Devastator in Drop Pod, what we take? Multi-Melta?

2. Inceptor Squad with Plasma Exterminator?

3. Inceptor or Devastator Squad in Drop pod to deploy for killing big target?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Meletiah

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1. Grav cannons

2. Yes

3. Either or both

[Charlo]

1. Grav cannons

2. Yes

3. Either or both

 

Grav isn't as effective now due to the loss of the amp strat.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is still good and high rate of fire.

[Meletiah]

Thanks for the informations.

 

And for big target with T8 and to much Wounds. What we take?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Eradicators 

[emperorpants]

 

1. Grav cannons

2. Yes

3. Either or both

 

 

Grav isn't as effective now due to the loss of the amp strat.

True, but Grav is now 30 inches and it's rate of fire is amazing. It's 4 shots per gun which is strength 5 and ap 3. It is flat damage 2 against 3 up save models. It's frankly pretty great at killing marines and equivalents. It's also pretty great against hordes which typically don't get a save against it, and one damage is all you need. Also the rate of fire, again, is great.