Games with the new codex?

[TheNewman]

I know some people have managed to get games in with the new codex already, I'm curious what people's overall impression has been.

 

Is it an actual nerf overall like some people thought at first? Is it stronger overall? I'd offer opinions of my own, but nobody locally will agree to play into loyalist Marines, I've either got to play CSM or break out the Tyranids.

 

(Although some of those same people will merrily play into Mono-god Slanneshi Daemons, so go figure that one out.)

[Mandragola]

I haven't played any and, due to lockdown restrictions in my area, I'm not likely to any time soon unfortunately.

 

I've watched a couple of games on tabletop titans' youtube stream though. They're quite interesting and the marines still look decent. None have been hyper-competitive but they're good players.

[TheNewman]

The one Tabletop Titans game I saw was kind of one-sided.

 

The Tabletop Tactis game vs Necrons was very close on VP, but one-sided in terms of model performance. Those guys admit that they don't publish the really one-sided games though since it's not fun to watch.

[Captain Idaho]

I've had a game against Space Wolves with my Ultramarines and it was cracking!

 

Plenty of stuff to try, including myself utilising Ultramarines Vanguard assault force!

 

Learning points...

 

• 2 wounds across the board is amazing.

 

• Tactical Marines/Grey Hunters make great troops for holding objectives.

 

• Assault Intercessors make great troops to fill out an assaulting force.

 

• Melta hurts.

 

• Eradicators are dangerous but so slow and once killing their unit, are seldom able to contribute to the rest of the game. They need Outflank, costing CP.

 

• Screen your vehicles against Eradicators, or place them across the board from each other. Fairly easy to do.

 

• Dreadnoughts are kings again. In a game where 2 damage will be the standard to bring down Marines, Duty Eternal is excellent on all types of Dreadnoughts. Take multiples and you won't be disappointed.

 

• Razorbacks are cool. Secondaries are about board control and these guys can shoot as well.

 

• Strategums are amazing. Things like Melta Bombs are a great tool.

[TheNewman]

That sounds suspiciously like "The 9.1 codex is even stronger than 8.2 codex was" Idaho, I don't think anyone is going to be happy if that's the case. Edited October 15, 2020 by TheNewman

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm going to get in a game against Sisters of Battle tonight. My opponent is more a competitive player than I am so I think it'll be a good test (the changes to melta, flamers, and heavy bolters are gonna be so good for SoB).

 

TheNewman I wouldn't read too much into a game between two armies that share a codex lol. That and this codex seems to style wise fit how Idaho wants to play, which can be more important than the overall strength of the book.

[TheNewman]

I suppose I should have been more explicit in the OP in any case. I'm not interested in what's good or bad within the codex, I'm interested in whether people who have actually played games with it think codex 9.1 is stronger or weaker than codex 8.2 was overall.

[Captain Idaho]

That sounds suspiciously like "The 9.1 codex is even stronger than 8.2 codex was" Idaho, I don't think anyone is going to be happy if that's the case.

It was blue on blue, so until another modern Codex outside the Space Marine Codex takes them on I can't be sure.

 

However, I can confirm that what makes Marines competitive now isn't the castles with auras cheese, or 100+ Aggressor shots, it's quality troops with decent weapons earning Primary and Secondary Objectives.

 

As Juan Helm-splitter mentioned, the Codex plays how I like to play, for the most part.

[Ishagu]

It's not as strong as it was in terms of the most powerful unit and rule combinations, but it's solid and more well balanced... For now

[SkimaskMohawk]

I don't think anyone can seriously make try and say that the new marine book is stronger than the previous one. Does it mean the new book is weak? No.

[Debauchery101]

I dont even know why they released the new codex without 1 or 2 of the supplements. The temporary supplements all have some janky things in them and are far from having anyone from taking anything Space Marines seriously from now until a couple weeks after the last supplement is released and they nerf/correct all the dumb stuff they put in

[Medjugorje]

I played 4 games with the new necron codex against the new Space Marines codex (ironicly because nothing is more interesting for me how my main army works but there are a lot of other Marine players too so I didnt want to play a mirror match)

 

-->the Marines are soooo gooood 

[Minsc]

No games yet (but will play a bunch soon) but my impression so far is:

 

From a very competetive, waac, build-lists-to-win-tournaments point of view, the new codex is weaker. The previous cookiecutterlists have been nerfed.

 

From a more casual, play with varied but still pretty strong lists-point of view, the new codex is much stronger because its much better internally balanced. A bunch of previously meh units have been brought up to standard. It also comes with a bunch of crusade-related stuff which I love. (90% of my games are crusade.)

 

Since i belong to the latter, I very much approve of the new codex.

[SkimaskMohawk]

A yes, building lists to win tournaments is waac and cookie cutter, but playing casually with pretty strong lists is a whole different thing. Obviously both players can't enjoy making good lists and identifying units that are better value.

[Prot]

I have played a few games with new rules (Ultramarines and White Scars.)

 

I'm not big on theory hammer, never have been, so I try to get as many 'experimental' games in as possible.

 

Right now it's my feeling this is the 'golden' era of marines as has been proven in past editions. The reason I say this is I think damage is the biggest mechanism I feel has changed in the lists. Yes, I miss a lot more thanks to aura nerf (which I like), but I hit harder with specialty units.

 

Vehicles feel pretty bad right now. It's also apparent there's no need for anything new (post Indomitus) to be extremely competitive in every game you play. The brand new stuff just doesn't feel that great compared to what's already out there. If you're a highly competitive player I believe you can probably skip most of the new items.

 

The Scars still play just like scars, the Ultra's play just like they did before. I never liked playing a blocky, slow, mid table castle, so the aura nerfs don't affect me as much as others.

 

The shift in my games is actually towards close combat. Frankly I'm bored of standing around in games, so I am enjoying the fact that even the 'shootiest' of marine armies can now get into close combat and do real damage. This probably won't last long, but it's nice for right now.

 

HQ's are still feeling limited, and more so with aura nerfs, but the elite characters are just that much better in game.

 

I did mention vehicles feel far less valuable (no re-rolls, high cost, unit nerfs, etc). However, the Redemptor dreadnought I've used for fun feels better. Everything... that damage reduction, that heavy onslaught/onslaught cannons are great and he feels better all around. A fun unit, far from broken, but there's good reason to use them now. (I haven't field my Contemptors yet).

 

Overall I feel like the differences I'm seeing between my armies, and my opponents' (non-marines) is really just a codex away from getting what they need (whether it be minor or large changes.)

[Minsc]

A yes, building lists to win tournaments is waac and cookie cutter, but playing casually with pretty strong lists is a whole different thing. Obviously both players can't enjoy making good lists and identifying units that are better value.

That's not what I said, what's with the strawman?

 

Being competitive or casual while also enjoying building solid lists aren't mutually exclusive; both players can enjoy making solid lists, but the aim of said lists are different and so the contents of said lists are different.

 

What I perceive as a "strong list" is probably not the same as someone who's making a list with the aim to win a tournament. He'd probably consider my list to be pretty weak.

 

It's all about the setting and level of competitiveness of where you play. For me, the new codex is "stronger"; it brought more units up to acceptable standard, so it allows for greater variety in my listbuilding. For a guy who's trying to win tournaments however, it's probably weaker, because of nerfs to key elements. 

 

 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Well my game last night was pretty rough. Immolators with twin multi-melta and a heavy bolter are a handful and he ran 5 of them. By the end of the game he was down to 1 but it just wasn't that close. I did proxy two of the "hammerstrike" speeders had one die before it moved but the other one did ok. Sisters are going to be a tough foe for marines with all of the heavy bolters and multi-melta they have available, the list he ran had about 30 shots of each per turn which my primaris just couldn't withstand. I think Razorbacks or devastors may have helped but I do wonder if the new weapon profiles are going to lead to some decisive games (sisters have an order than can advance and fire weapons like normal so the threat range is pretty insane).

[Alcyon]

The new codex is generally weaker than the last one, but Space Marines are still an extremely strong army that can bleed zero secondaries pretty easily. Even with the various minor nerfs, I think many other codexes are very weak in comparison, especially with the objective focus of 9th. Just look at the statlines of Tyranid or Astra Militarum weapons or units, taking into account the points costs. The most egregious stuff has been brought into line (Eradicators aside), but other armies sorely need to be brought up to the level of this new dex. 

[Morticon]

I know some people have managed to get games in with the new codex already, I'm curious what people's overall impression has been.

 

Is it an actual nerf overall like some people thought at first? Is it stronger overall? I'd offer opinions of my own, but nobody locally will agree to play into loyalist Marines, I've either got to play CSM or break out the Tyranids.

 

(Although some of those same people will merrily play into Mono-god Slanneshi Daemons, so go figure that one out.)

 

 

Ive had over ten games so far with 3 different rules sets (codicies). 

 

its so difficult to say whether its an over-all nerf or buff on account of how it's been rebalanced.  At first I thought the big changes to key and pivotal power units and power combos were going to account for a large nerf.  The reality has been that while the massive OP combos or units have been gutted, the rest of the dex has been rebalanced in such a way as to provide a monstrous combination of tactical options for marine players. 

 

This is not accounting for the Eradicator elephant in the room ,which at present is the glaring issue which is likely to see some VERY quick rebalancing.  

 

Whats more is that different codicies appeal to different aspects of the SM dex and in different ways.  In my estimation - baring in mind I dont folow the arguably far more accurate tournament postings and reddit results etc - Salamanders, DA and White Scars are in exceptionally good places at the moment. 

 

I think we're still massively strong without supplementary dexs, however, I feel the issue is that there are some supps that just boost this to silly levels. 

 

Ive recently put my BA aside for an upcoming tournament (until we get a dex) in favour of a list and army that offers far, far, far more for exactly the same build, but just a name switch.   This is problematic. 

 

 

I think what you're going to see is middling to weaker players struggling to do as well as they may have been doing at higher levels without gimmick bombs (again, bar one or two exceptions) but you may see far weaker players doing a little better overall.  Stronger players I feel will dominate with the right selections and options. 

 

 

[leth]

Have not played myself but my overall impression is that the average power level has gone up, however they thee top end has gone down. 
 

Lots more things are viable and powerful, but nothing(outside eradicators) is so broken that they are 100% an auto-win or auto-include in an any army list. You will lose with marines if you don’t play well. 

[Captain Idaho]

I truly believe Eradicators are a flash in the pan and will be a powerful option but easily dealt with for many people. They're so slow for a melta unit, require CPs to get close, can't redeploy to reach other choices targets...

 

And Attack Bikes are a thing. ;)

[Segismundo]

One game with Black Templars against guard. Terminators with hammers and shields are golden.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah they're a massive winner in this Codex!