Possible changes in the new codex.

[Marshal Loss]

Look at the first image, the Plague Company keyword example: it mentions how if you choose Mortarion's Anvil then your Lord of Contagion will give rerolls of 1s to hit to friendly Mortarion's Anvil units

[Special Officer Doofy]

Look at the first image, the Plague Company keyword example: it mentions how if you choose Mortarion's Anvil then your Lord of Contagion will give rerolls of 1s to hit to friendly Mortarion's Anvil units

Ahhhh. Nice

[Iron Sage]

Sooo, finished reading everything but the odd stratagem and kind of overwhelmed at how good this seems compared to the old. They really have upgraded our Warlord traits for instance, and it seems I should start trying to paint my Project nr. 1, Mortarion (he was supposed to be my final Death Guard model, but I kind of want to paint him now).

I note that we can also spam a ridiculous amount of relics still, which is a nice bonus (ordinary relic upgrade + that other relic upgrade that makes any Champion choose a one of a relatively short list of relics, among them confirmation that nice ones such as suppurating plate is still there, which is good since Daemon Princes with 2+ is kind of nice).

[McElMcNinja]

I was thinking a DP with the plate and the trait to ignore -2AP is a good combo.

I haven’t seen any of the new relics, just read that one was still available. I would like to see spells as well as it seems a couple were made into strats.

[jgascoine011]

I think overall they have been buffed. 2W/3W buffs, the legion trait applying to the whole legion, a mono bonus (and giving the enemy -1T is awesome), they went up less in points than the competition did for 9th, Daemon engines going to 3+ to hit, bloat drones losing 1W but having no damage table, and Mortarion is waaaaaay better. We can have chaos lords now with 5T and DR. Just look at a 21 point plague marine to a 20 point Intercessor. One inch less movement and a worse base gun. But for that and one point more we get one more toughness, a free melee weapon (-1ap and plague rule) access to cooler special weapons (including melee in the same group), and -1 damage. That's a win to me.

 

There has been some nerfs, like DR got worse and the new leaked limit on Daemon Princes per detatchment, but overall I think we are in a much better place than in 8th. I'm excited for the new codex!

 

The best way to look at death guard is to compare them to white scars.

DG get -1D at all times, WS get +1D in combat and combat doctines (I dont count it being from turn 3 onwards because there a a bunch of strats that ignore this)

DG get to ignore penatiles for charging, WS get to advance and charge

DG vehicles can shoot into combat without penatlies, and infantry can always rapid fire with bolters, WS can fallback and charge.

DG do get the -1T aura...which is pretty decent.

 

Ok so lets look at units.

5 BL terminators are costing 200 points...5 bladeguard are costing 175, both have a 2+, BL have T5 and BG have a 4++ (assuming BL have a 5++)....The toughness means pretty much nothing as BG can make you wound on a 4+ regardless and will wound you on 3+, while doing D3 wounds (with the +1D being cancelled out by DGs -1D)...oh but we have bolters....yea would rather have BG for 25 points less

 

A PBC vs redemptor dreadnought. They both have a D6 shot weapon, they both reduce damage by 1. The PBC has 2D6 auto hitting heavy flamers, the dread has 1D6 heavy flamer, and 2D6 frag shos. The dread has better AP with the plasma, more wounds, and better damage, can also give re-roll 1s to hit/wound. The PBC has better toughness and a 5++.

So if they shoot each other, both will hit on 3s, both will wound on 3s, both will have a 5+/5++ save...but for 10 points more, the dread will do 1 additional damage, and have more wounds....oh and have a :cussing S14 D4 CC weapon 

 

PM vs Intersessor squad.

PM are T5, intersessors have effectivly an additional shot with possibly and extra AP (and perhaps and additional attack with shock assault)

These are possibly the most balanced units so far.

 

Chapter master vs Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/LoC

This is perhaps the most frustrating thing about this codex, namely the nerf to arch contaminator.

So before a chapter master have re-roll all hits, with a lieutenant giving re-roll 1s to wound.  The Chaos lord could give re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll failed wounds on PW. The re-roll failed wounds i would argue is better than re-roll hits, however it was balanced by being only on PW with the toss up between having to take it on a WLT while not having to spend the points on a 2nd or 3rd HQ. Why the hell was it nerfed to only within 12"?

 

Im not sure on the rules for the surgeon but if he cant bring back models then he will still suck compared to the apothecary

 

The judicare vs blightspawn is about balanced, with the better permanent fight last ability from the judicare being balanced out with the better gun from the blightspawn (assuming it stays the same)

 

Not sure on the rules for the tallyman and putrifier.

 

So in the end we got +1 Wound and -1D for the loss of 5+++, and a bunch of our decent stratagems (and possibly a 4++ on the terminators). If anyone thinks this is a buff is kidding themselves

[McElMcNinja]

Until they nerf Morty, this codex is a win. I haven’t even seen all the rules yet, but it’s a win. Morty is T8, 18W, reducing damage, with a 3+, 4++, 5+++. Throw in some Deathshroud for a 2+ “we’ll take that hit for you” goodness. If they don’t dedicate their entire army to taking him down, he’s going to beat stick a lot. If they do that we will have board control and that’s where games are won or lost.

Don’t see Morty going too long before he’s nerfed, he is that good now. Sure we lost our FNP, but as long as Morty is tanking everything we are in a great spot. Morty plus lots of troops and a couple characters is all we need. Maybe a drone or 2 and a couple rhinos for movement.

We got that strat that carries over wounds, a unit of 5 DS have at least 19 attacks that can be hitting on 2’s (re-rolling), wounding on 2’s (re-rolling) with damage 2 weapons that if they fail their initial save they auto suffer the extra wounds, so good. Add in a Tollkeeper that 6’s generate an extra hit, what!

I have no complaints.

 

Edit: and possessed, 4 attacks now being plague weapons, with the strats that add +1 to wound and/or damage...

Edited January 16, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[firestorm40k]

Well, I've pre-ordered my copy of the new Codex* (plus a Lord of Virulence :D); really looking forward to seeing for myself the various options this army has now.

 

* It appears demand for this is huge as it has crashed the GW website :o good job I ordered from a third party..!

[Edit:] I forgot the two new Black Library Ltd editions too, there'll be loads of people after those as well!

Edited January 16, 2021 by firestorm40k

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

I think overall they have been buffed. 2W/3W buffs, the legion trait applying to the whole legion, a mono bonus (and giving the enemy -1T is awesome), they went up less in points than the competition did for 9th, Daemon engines going to 3+ to hit, bloat drones losing 1W but having no damage table, and Mortarion is waaaaaay better. We can have chaos lords now with 5T and DR. Just look at a 21 point plague marine to a 20 point Intercessor. One inch less movement and a worse base gun. But for that and one point more we get one more toughness, a free melee weapon (-1ap and plague rule) access to cooler special weapons (including melee in the same group), and -1 damage. That's a win to me.

 

There has been some nerfs, like DR got worse and the new leaked limit on Daemon Princes per detatchment, but overall I think we are in a much better place than in 8th. I'm excited for the new codex!

The best way to look at death guard is to compare them to white scars.

DG get -1D at all times, WS get +1D in combat and combat doctines (I dont count it being from turn 3 onwards because there a a bunch of strats that ignore this)

DG get to ignore penatiles for charging, WS get to advance and charge

DG vehicles can shoot into combat without penatlies, and infantry can always rapid fire with bolters, WS can fallback and charge.

DG do get the -1T aura...which is pretty decent.

 

Ok so lets look at units.

5 BL terminators are costing 200 points...5 bladeguard are costing 175, both have a 2+, BL have T5 and BG have a 4++ (assuming BL have a 5++)....The toughness means pretty much nothing as BG can make you wound on a 4+ regardless and will wound you on 3+, while doing D3 wounds (with the +1D being cancelled out by DGs -1D)...oh but we have bolters....yea would rather have BG for 25 points less

 

A PBC vs redemptor dreadnought. They both have a D6 shot weapon, they both reduce damage by 1. The PBC has 2D6 auto hitting heavy flamers, the dread has 1D6 heavy flamer, and 2D6 frag shos. The dread has better AP with the plasma, more wounds, and better damage, can also give re-roll 1s to hit/wound. The PBC has better toughness and a 5++.

So if they shoot each other, both will hit on 3s, both will wound on 3s, both will have a 5+/5++ save...but for 10 points more, the dread will do 1 additional damage, and have more wounds....oh and have a :cussing S14 D4 CC weapon

 

PM vs Intersessor squad.

PM are T5, intersessors have effectivly an additional shot with possibly and extra AP (and perhaps and additional attack with shock assault)

These are possibly the most balanced units so far.

 

Chapter master vs Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/LoC

This is perhaps the most frustrating thing about this codex, namely the nerf to arch contaminator.

So before a chapter master have re-roll all hits, with a lieutenant giving re-roll 1s to wound. The Chaos lord could give re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll failed wounds on PW. The re-roll failed wounds i would argue is better than re-roll hits, however it was balanced by being only on PW with the toss up between having to take it on a WLT while not having to spend the points on a 2nd or 3rd HQ. Why the hell was it nerfed to only within 12"?

 

Im not sure on the rules for the surgeon but if he cant bring back models then he will still suck compared to the apothecary

 

The judicare vs blightspawn is about balanced, with the better permanent fight last ability from the judicare being balanced out with the better gun from the blightspawn (assuming it stays the same)

 

Not sure on the rules for the tallyman and putrifier.

 

So in the end we got +1 Wound and -1D for the loss of 5+++, and a bunch of our decent stratagems (and possibly a 4++ on the terminators). If anyone thinks this is a buff is kidding themselves

I love how you go straight to the strongest marine supplement. Compare them to ultramarines.

 

And actually to cross the line as a buff, compare them to the old codex... And hey look overall it's a buff!

[Marshal Loss]

Review up by Sprues and Brews.

 

Goonhammer review also up.

 

Worth a read. Many, many changes. In one that stood out to me, Plague Marines & Blightlords for example now have weapon options based on the box:

 

 

Something to note is that the unit now hews much closer to the box contents and many special weapon options are now limited to one per 5 models, instead of just being “two models.” So sadly, no more 5-man Plague Marine squads sporting three plasma guns. 

Wings: This applies to melee options too, which means you can’t double stack on flails in a five model squad, and the flail has also received a downgrade, no longer spilling over its excess damage. Here that’s offset by you now getting +1A with the flail, because the rule giving extra attacks if you have multiple weapons now works with any of them, and the model keeps a plague knife. The unit also now caps at 10 models rather than 20.

 

Unit options are now based on what is in the box, so one of each weapon type for every 5 models.

 

Some fantastic news: Terminators keep their 4++!

 

Some bad news: despite what GW said on WHC, Possessed are still 2 wounds.

[Dark Legionnare]

(Accidentally commented in the leak thread when meant here)

 

Friend of mine got an early copy and I just got done reading it myself. I'm most excited for the Surgeon, Tallyman, and Foul Blightspawn basically every game. My trifecta of gross, as I've called them since painting them all up at the same time.

 

Hopefully the GH article mentions it, but Surgeon is a 6+++ aura, so him with the still-here Fulgaris helm is gunna' be fun on a bun. Also, TAAAAAALLYMAN. FINALLY. A good reason to take the bloke. No longer a shelf queen. +1 to hit on ranged stuff? Smells good for normal PM and any surprise BL combi love.

 

 

Sooooooo much other good, fun, fluffy stuff too. Also, with changes to profile, DP with sword (aka the actual model from Fall of Medusa... Damn, I have that poster on my wall still, and I never feel "not old" looking at those dates) is takeable while feeling good about yourself. Double talons not an auto-take, that is.

 

 

So much more... So excited, so much good, gross, plaguey synergy.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[jgascoine011]

 

 

 

I think overall they have been buffed. 2W/3W buffs, the legion trait applying to the whole legion, a mono bonus (and giving the enemy -1T is awesome), they went up less in points than the competition did for 9th, Daemon engines going to 3+ to hit, bloat drones losing 1W but having no damage table, and Mortarion is waaaaaay better. We can have chaos lords now with 5T and DR. Just look at a 21 point plague marine to a 20 point Intercessor. One inch less movement and a worse base gun. But for that and one point more we get one more toughness, a free melee weapon (-1ap and plague rule) access to cooler special weapons (including melee in the same group), and -1 damage. That's a win to me.

 

There has been some nerfs, like DR got worse and the new leaked limit on Daemon Princes per detatchment, but overall I think we are in a much better place than in 8th. I'm excited for the new codex!

The best way to look at death guard is to compare them to white scars.

DG get -1D at all times, WS get +1D in combat and combat doctines (I dont count it being from turn 3 onwards because there a a bunch of strats that ignore this)

DG get to ignore penatiles for charging, WS get to advance and charge

DG vehicles can shoot into combat without penatlies, and infantry can always rapid fire with bolters, WS can fallback and charge.

DG do get the -1T aura...which is pretty decent.

 

Ok so lets look at units.

5 BL terminators are costing 200 points...5 bladeguard are costing 175, both have a 2+, BL have T5 and BG have a 4++ (assuming BL have a 5++)....The toughness means pretty much nothing as BG can make you wound on a 4+ regardless and will wound you on 3+, while doing D3 wounds (with the +1D being cancelled out by DGs -1D)...oh but we have bolters....yea would rather have BG for 25 points less

 

A PBC vs redemptor dreadnought. They both have a D6 shot weapon, they both reduce damage by 1. The PBC has 2D6 auto hitting heavy flamers, the dread has 1D6 heavy flamer, and 2D6 frag shos. The dread has better AP with the plasma, more wounds, and better damage, can also give re-roll 1s to hit/wound. The PBC has better toughness and a 5++.

So if they shoot each other, both will hit on 3s, both will wound on 3s, both will have a 5+/5++ save...but for 10 points more, the dread will do 1 additional damage, and have more wounds....oh and have a :cussing S14 D4 CC weapon

 

PM vs Intersessor squad.

PM are T5, intersessors have effectivly an additional shot with possibly and extra AP (and perhaps and additional attack with shock assault)

These are possibly the most balanced units so far.

 

Chapter master vs Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/LoC

This is perhaps the most frustrating thing about this codex, namely the nerf to arch contaminator.

So before a chapter master have re-roll all hits, with a lieutenant giving re-roll 1s to wound. The Chaos lord could give re-roll 1s to hit and re-roll failed wounds on PW. The re-roll failed wounds i would argue is better than re-roll hits, however it was balanced by being only on PW with the toss up between having to take it on a WLT while not having to spend the points on a 2nd or 3rd HQ. Why the hell was it nerfed to only within 12"?

 

Im not sure on the rules for the surgeon but if he cant bring back models then he will still suck compared to the apothecary

 

The judicare vs blightspawn is about balanced, with the better permanent fight last ability from the judicare being balanced out with the better gun from the blightspawn (assuming it stays the same)

 

Not sure on the rules for the tallyman and putrifier.

 

So in the end we got +1 Wound and -1D for the loss of 5+++, and a bunch of our decent stratagems (and possibly a 4++ on the terminators). If anyone thinks this is a buff is kidding themselves

I love how you go straight to the strongest marine supplement. Compare them to ultramarines.

 

And actually to cross the line as a buff, compare them to the old codex... And hey look overall it's a buff!

1) It’s just easier to compare them to WS than ultra marines

2) WS are a thing, I have to play them. Nobody is playing Ultra marines because WS are better. However to be fair most are now playing blood angles and SW.

 

Mortarion got a buff, most units got side changed, a lot got nerfed, the stratagems are complete garbage. Anyone who thinks this codex is a buff is delusional sorry

[Marshal Loss]

the stratagems are complete garbage

Eh? There are some brilliant stratagems in there 100%

[Dark Legionnare]

 

the stratagems are complete garbage

Eh? There are some brilliant stratagems in there 100%

 

"Cannot see the forest for the trees" type situation with him, methinks.

[Special Officer Doofy]

1) It’s just easier to compare them to WS than ultra marines

2) WS are a thing, I have to play them. Nobody is playing Ultra marines because WS are better. However to be fair most are now playing blood angles and SW.

 

Mortarion got a buff, most units got side changed, a lot got nerfed, the stratagems are complete garbage. Anyone who thinks this codex is a buff is delusional sorry

1) It's easier to compare them to the strongest loyalist chapter which is built around speed, the exact opposite of what DG is, or is it the most convenient for your argument?

2) Prior to the white scars supplement I've never even seen a white scars marine player in person. If you only play meta chasing marine players that change their chapter with every update that sounds like a personal problem. How good white scars are does not change the fact that overall DG are getting buffed.

 

Mortarion did get buffed, probably too much. Lord of contagion got buffed from the -1T aura (as well as most units in the book). Chaos lords and sorcerers got buffed by getting T5 and DR. Plague marines went to 2W, got free AP on the knifes. Possessed got buffed. All the Daemon engines went to 3+ to hit and benefit from the legion trait and got buffed. Most units in the codex got directly buffed.

 

There was some nerfs, yes, but overall this codex is stronger than the last. If you want to compare it to other factions codexes go ahead, but that literally has nothing to do with how this codex compares to its last...

[Marshal Loss]

New Blightlord units are going to look odd: combi-weapons are heavily restricted (that will really hurt for people that hunted down lots of combi-weapon parts), and it's possible to have a build with 2x heavy weapons (1 reaper autocannon or blight launcher per 5, 1x plague spewer per 5) in a minimum sized squad.

 

The Blightlord loadout change + PM loadout change are pretty much the only changes I"m unhappy with. For new players, these won't be an issue: you just build what's in the box. Bit of a kick for veterans though.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Marshal Loss

[Special Officer Doofy]

New Blightlord units are going to look odd: combi-weapons are heavily restricted (that will really hurt for people that hunted down lots of combi-weapon parts), and it's possible to have a build with 2x heavy weapons (1 reaper autocannon or blight launcher per 5, 1x plague spewer per 5) in a minimum sized squad.

 

The Blightlord loadout change + PM loadout change are pretty much the only changes I"m unhappy with. For new players, these won't be an issue: you just build what's in the box. Bit of a kick for veterans though.

I have to look into that. I always ran some small groups of 5 PM with 2 blight launchers. Guess I cant do that anymore haha.

[Marshal Loss]

 

New Blightlord units are going to look odd: combi-weapons are heavily restricted (that will really hurt for people that hunted down lots of combi-weapon parts), and it's possible to have a build with 2x heavy weapons (1 reaper autocannon or blight launcher per 5, 1x plague spewer per 5) in a minimum sized squad.

 

The Blightlord loadout change + PM loadout change are pretty much the only changes I"m unhappy with. For new players, these won't be an issue: you just build what's in the box. Bit of a kick for veterans though.

I have to look into that. I always ran some small groups of 5 PM with 2 blight launchers. Guess I cant do that anymore haha.

 

Yeah I 100% did the same thing - but I also had a big blob of knife marines, and tons with axes, which are basically useless now :(

 

It's an interesting change, will probably have a big impact on Chaos Space Marines & other armies going forward as well. The age of "you can only use what's in the box" has begun

[Dark Legionnare]

 

 

New Blightlord units are going to look odd: combi-weapons are heavily restricted (that will really hurt for people that hunted down lots of combi-weapon parts), and it's possible to have a build with 2x heavy weapons (1 reaper autocannon or blight launcher per 5, 1x plague spewer per 5) in a minimum sized squad.

 

The Blightlord loadout change + PM loadout change are pretty much the only changes I"m unhappy with. For new players, these won't be an issue: you just build what's in the box. Bit of a kick for veterans though.

I have to look into that. I always ran some small groups of 5 PM with 2 blight launchers. Guess I cant do that anymore haha.

 

Yeah I 100% did the same thing - but I also had a big blob of knife marines, and tons with axes, which are basically useless now

 

It's an interesting change, will probably have a big impact on Chaos Space Marines & other armies going forward as well. The age of "you can only use what's in the box" has begun

 

Gotta' be some exceptions.

 

*cough* Havocs *cough*

[Marshal Loss]

Gotta' be some exceptions.

 

*cough* Havocs *cough*

That's a good point: I wonder what they'll do there.

[jgascoine011]

Oh wow wait a min, just looking through some of the stratagems...sooo we can still through grenades at 12"?

The grenades become pistol 6, but still have the plague weapon rule, and we can extend the plague weapons by 6"?

 

Oh wait, just noticed it looks like its 3 models only...thats just dumb if it is, but still, 18 shots + D6 shots, from 4 guys is not bad.

 

Cloud of flies costing 4CP for terminators???? golly gee

And VotLW now costing 2CP, urgh dumb

[TrawlingCleaner]

I wouldn't compare this codex to the previous codex, this is closer to an entire rewrite to be honest. Plenty of old stuff had to gotten rid of to make way for the new and I don't mind at all

[Toxichobbit]

 

The age of "you can only use what's in the box" has begun

 

 

 

I hate these kind of changes. It's a real   you to veteran players who spent the time and money converting. It also really feels like GW keeps pushing for everyone to have the same stuff, even down to the load outs. Not only that but mixed units with a bit of everything are rarely good, so I think ultimately it will reduce variation, creativity, experimentation and increase cookie cutter builds. That's bad for the game and the players.

 

On a personal note, all 5 of my Plague Marine squads are built as two of one weapon (with one squad being pure melee). I can ofc accommodate this change by re-organising them, but I really don't want to because it's going to make the squads less unique, less interesting and reduce their viability all at the same time.

 

 

Cloud of flies costing 4CP for terminators???? golly gee

 

 

It's played at the start of the opponent's shooting phase now, which is a significant buff. It can definitely be used on a unit coming in from reserves now (possibly could before, I'm not sure on the ruling of "during your movement phase" vs "at the end of your movement phase") and allows you to react in the opponents turn when you have more information. I think 4cp is still too much for Terminators, I would have preferred it to be 2/3cp. But at least it's got better.

[Marshal Loss]

It's possible also to have an insane amount of special weapons in a PM squad; you could, in a 10 man squad, have e.g. a plasma gun on a champ, 2x blight launchers, a plague spewer, and 2x plasma guns.

 

So the changes to loadouts hurt PM players who wanted to spam axes or dual knives, and Blightlord players who took lots of combi-weapons, but it's not wholly negative: lots of incentive to take a 10 man squad now.

[jgascoine011]

So rhinos, defilers etc didnt get DR????????????????????????????????

What the actual . How are people defending this piece of garbage codex.

 

 

Oh and none of the daemon engines got core....so when i joking said that 2 bloat drones with heavy blight launchers near a lord with arch contaminator could just about kill a rhino...well not any more

Edited January 16, 2021 by jgascoine011

[Toxichobbit]

It's possible also to have an insane amount of special weapons in a PM squad; you could, in a 10 man squad, have e.g. a plasma gun on a champ, 2x blight launchers, a plague spewer, and 2x plasma guns.

 

So the changes to loadouts hurt PM players who wanted to spam axes or dual knives, and Blightlord players who took lots of combi-weapons, but it's not wholly negative: lots of incentive to take a 10 man squad now.

 

7 man or bust! I can't bring myself to take 10, it just feels so wrong.

 

Even if it's just the melee options for PM that are hurt, it still feels crappy. Melee PM squads were something interesting and new and it'll be a shame if they're restricted to the point you stop seeing them. That said I haven't seen the exact restrictions yet so maybe it's not as bad as I fear. It certainly doesn't sound as bad as the awful Karadron "You must take one of each of these completely different weapons in the squad" debacle.

 

I like the rest of what I've seen of the Codex though, so I feel positive overall.