Possible changes in the new codex.

[CastellanDeMolay]

I have two 7-man Plague Marine squads, one with triple Plasma and one with two Blight Launchers. From the sounds of it, I can still run the same models, but a Plasma Gun and a Blight Launcher need to trade places for it to be rules legal. 

 

"Brother Venomgurgler, I need you to trade places with brother Poopreviewpartaker in squad Anal Fistula."

"Ok, but why?"

"The rules which say what weapons we can have in a squad have changed, and now we can only have one Plasma Gun and one Blight Launcher per 5 Plague Marines."

"That doesn't really make sense, but I guess if it's the rules..."

[McElMcNinja]

I think you can only have 1 BL (and Plague Spewer) in the first 5 and a second BL or Spewer if you have 10. 1 Plasma (not including Champion’s weapon) in the first 5 and a second Plasma if you have 10.

A unit of 7 models (not including Champion’s weapon) is 1 Plasma and 1 BL (and 1 Spewer).

Edited January 19, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[Plague _Lord]

I'm sorry I think I failed to see the part where our vechicles don't get the -1 dmg our infantry does... Is this true?

 

This means MBH are useless and my PBC are much worse. I allways went spewers so the +1bs give me nothing. The only thing that made the good was their toughness. Now they can't get up close because any assault infantry will just destroy them.

 

My Landraider is in even worse condition. Contaminated monstrosity made it playable and really tough. Now it's back to the shelf.

 

Defiler still looks good though (the boost to BS and WS helps  it the most).

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm sorry I think I failed to see the part where our vechicles don't get the -1 dmg our infantry does... Is this true?

 

This means MBH are useless and my PBC are much worse. I allways went spewers so the +1bs give me nothing. The only thing that made the good was their toughness. Now they can't get up close because any assault infantry will just destroy them.

 

My Landraider is in even worse condition. Contaminated monstrosity made it playable and really tough. Now it's back to the shelf.

 

Defiler still looks good though (the boost to BS and WS helps it the most).

The -1 to damage is from disgustingly resilient, not from some infantry rule. So PBC, drones and haulers have it. Helbrutes have the dreadnaught version. Defilers, landraiders, rhinos and Predators do not have DR and have no way of getting it now.

 

I use two spitter drones, and they dropped from 155pts to 130pts because the increase to hit does nothing for them. The spitters also no longer scale to strength and are a flat 6. I'm a fan of the Drone losing one wound but no longer having a bracket. Spitter PBC's are much worse now. Haulers went from 100pts to 140pts because they were undercosted, and now are 3+ to hit with 2 melta shots (but I hear they are losing their other cool rules).

[Iron Sage]

I'm sorry I think I failed to see the part where our vechicles don't get the -1 dmg our infantry does... Is this true?

 

This means MBH are useless and my PBC are much worse. I allways went spewers so the +1bs give me nothing. The only thing that made the good was their toughness. Now they can't get up close because any assault infantry will just destroy them.

 

My Landraider is in even worse condition. Contaminated monstrosity made it playable and really tough. Now it's back to the shelf.

 

Defiler still looks good though (the boost to BS and WS helps  it the most).

Everything not with the Key Word Bubonic Astartes lose Inexorable Advance, which is very unfortunate, but doesn't remove any Disgustingly Resilient from Daemon Engines (but the Defiler is basically totally standard and so didn't gain any Nurgle special rules either). This is probably one of the part of the Codex that I am most critical of, that they didn't allow us to have a slightly more expensive but so much more flavorful, Death Guard Defiler and Death Guard Land Raider etc. But it's like in 8th edition except there is no Contaminated Monstrosity anymore.

[Iron Sage]

The Flash Outbreak stratagem (2CP). Use in your Command Phase. Pick one "Plague Company" Unit from your army (so only from one Great Company). Give that unit all the Contagions that any other unit in your army from that Plague Company has. Now, I do not think that Mortarion counts as a Plague Company, which is unfortunate since he will know one Contaigion as well, but say, your LOC has it's own contagion. It opens up interesting play or so it looks to me. And there are several ways to extend contagion range (this ironically being one of them).

 

What is more, it also have a beautiful secondary effect which makes all units from that Plague Company count their Turn as 1 higher than it actually is, for purposes of Contagion range.

 

Seems like a very powerful stratagem to me and the kind of stratagem that you can actually make plans around, since all it needs to work is a character with a contagion alive on the table. It lasts until your next command phase as well, so an entire turn.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Plague _Lord]

Ahhh thx putrid.

 

Ok so not all that bad but still haulers had great utility in being cheap but survivable, while have supbar shooting. I get that their shooting got a little bit better (they don't have access to any rerolls but they lost out on giving infantry cover and got a lot more expensive.  What also got better for them is shooting in combat without penalty so what we should be doing is rush them at nast shooty stuff and try to either force them to fall back or destroy them with up close and accurate melta shots. They have lost some survivability though and 140 pts for a throw away unit is rather a lot...

 

The other thing that bugs me is the inability to take full squad of plaguemarines AND a charachter in a rhino... And making possessed count as 2 spots in a transport... like golly gee?

[Verbal Underbelly]

Am I right in thinking a 10 model unit of plague marines can take the following three plasma guns (one on the champ) AND two blight launchers? Or two plague belchers AND two plague spewers? 

 

If so, that's pretty good. 

[Iron Sage]

Yes they can. While not Chosen, their special weapon options are almost similar in some ways. The 3 Plasma guns and 2 blight launchers stands out as a pretty decent mid range unit. Maybe pay 10 points for a sigil.

 

Costs 270 with Sigil and 280 if you put  Power Fist on the champ, so expensive. But looks like a decent unit. One of the lists I made yesterday contained a 280 version of that.

[jgascoine011]

Yep, depending how you look at it it’s not a buff though. Before you could take 5 man sqauds with a plasma gun and 2 BL/Plasma Guns...so yea, DG actually lost a plasma gun. However you now have 10 spare wounds to chew through before they can get to the special weapons

[techsoldaten]

I intensely dislike having my army composition dictated to me, especially as part of a chaos faction. My madmen and mutants have to have carefully tabulated ratios of marines to zombies? Give me a break.

 

and people saying ‘limits on poxwalkers is fluffy’ are just plain wrong. If a planet is in the late stage throes of a Death Guard invasion, how many millions may be walking dead? I doubt people would spam poxwalkers anyway (they can’t take actions) but gw going so far out of their way as to hardcode limits into the rules of the faction feels patronizing and insulting. I want to field what I want in my army, not what Gw thinks my army should look like.

 

Your list composition is not dictated to you.

 

If you want 160 Poxwalkers, play a non-battleforged army.

 

That would be more consistent with the idea of a worldwide zombie plague, as tactics / coherent leadership would go out the window after hitting critical mass.

 

 

I don't like sorcs or pure psykers. Now we literally have to take one in a battalion detachment. The decision to limit DP to one per detachment as well as making them count as a lord of chaos means you can't a DP and Typhus or a LoC or anything else. Your only option is a sorc. I always ran my DG with either DP and Typhus or LoC or two DP. It wasn't chasing meta. It was simply my fluff and lore for my army.

 

Now I have no choice but to take a freaking sorc. It is a frankly idiotic decision that unfairly restricts player choice. We aren't a faction like CSM that has a dozen or more HQ choices that we can something else to take. You LITERALLY have to take a sorc. Unless you want to lose CP for no reason by taking several detachments...which no one with a brain would do.

 

I'm not a fan of the Lord of Chaos restriction, but it's consistent with how HQ units are treated in 9th edition. Space Marines can't take a captain and a lieutenant, the supreme command detachment is very limited by comparison, and Death Guard can't have Typhus and a Daemon Prince in the same detachment.

 

I'm personally okay with it so long as other factions have a similar restriction.

 

 

DG nerfed to the grave. Just cry of my heart. 

 

This is an insane take. They are going to be incredible, especially the meat and potatoes of the army.

 

I did not read the original as anything but an attempt at humor.

[Iron Sage]

Yep, depending how you look at it it’s not a buff though. Before you could take 5 man sqauds with a plasma gun and 2 BL/Plasma Guns...so yea, DG actually lost a plasma gun. However you now have 10 spare wounds to chew through before they can get to the special weapons

Yes, MSU nerfed, that is true. But 10 man squad significantly boosted. Plague Marines will play differently. I think you will see many units with just stock standard bolters and no upgrades, and strong upgraded 10 man squads.There is still room for MSU, but you can't give them much bite with uniform upgrades. A significant change for sure and I can understand why you don't like it. Personally, I want to try out some variations of the 10 man squads though, and run odd numbered Plague Marine squads with just bolters.

 

However, even if they are different weapons, you can still give a MSU squad 2 plasma and then just chuck in a blight launcher, which is arguably a better weapon anyway. In that case, you don't lose much at all, just got to roll different dice. So if you are willing to have a different weapon load out, it is not a big change in utility. Even so, I suspect many will still take marines with no upgrades in small squads, but the 2 plasma + blight launcher seems like a decent enough option on paper.

 

Edited my post because I realised that it's not really a significant nerf when it comes to MSU at all, as you can take 2 plasma and a blight launcher.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Iron Sage

[Plague _Lord]

Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...

[McElMcNinja]

That looks right Verbal and I am a fan of the Spewers. Now that they have 12” range, they are great for overwatch. With the right character support, no one will want to come close to them. And with CoF no one can shoot them, how is someone suppose to deal with a unit like that?

 

I am glad for the new rule that allows 3 elites to take 1 slot. I was having issues getting everything I wanted in my list and after the points update I had an average 120 points more to spend in those characters. With the updated bodyguard rule, it’s even easier to protect all those characters, as a bonus Deathshroud are so much better then they were.

 

After playing multiple games my one and only complaint is that this dex was delayed. I’ve ran Morty in about 1/3 of those games and at first he seemed too good. We found ways of dealing with him and after a few weeks people will be ok with him to a degree. SM players will probably complain the most as DG are the perfect counter to them (with or without Morty).

[Iron Sage]

Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...

I find the same. Was trying to build 2-3 lists yesterday, but had real problems finding space to tanks as I kind of auto included Mortarion and 10 blightlords as well as a LOC and that's a lot of points before troops ! Because let's face it, you want to include some of the Foetid Virion for buffs, or I do anyway. And then there isn't points left after troops.

[Verbal Underbelly]

Awesome, plague marines units are really compelling - two (or three specials) and two heavy in a ten man unit. A couple of ten model units will look great on the battlefield - legion strength. 

 

I can see why some folks will chafe at the "loss" of MSU though. I feel like a third, bare bones MSU for the secondary objective will be worthwhile, just in a different way now.

[Bulwyf]

Gotten down to list building and am finding it hard to include any vechicles. I'm starting to think that maybe 10 blightlords and 6 deathshroud might be a solid core to build around and go full infantry.

 

On the other hand all of our long range AT firepower is on tanks...

 

The limitation on taking lords is tough to manage... I loved my DP with the old codex, but I sort of want to have a lord of contagion drop with my deathshroud to enhance their aura. Basically that's -2CP from the get go to take both...

 

This is one of the reasons I hate the new restrictions on weapons in a squad. My BL termies had a flail, reaper autocannon and 3 axe/combi plasma. Now I have to lose the combi plasma on two of the three guys. We don't get Havoks so our PM and BL have to double duty as heavy weapon squads. Losing the extra combi plasma removes the BL ability to be an effective AT unit. 

 

Don't tell me they can charge and take out tanks. We get nothing to help on the charge so no one can rely on 9 inch charges to take out tanks. 

 

FW dreads? All were nerfed to obsolescence. Our AT options are Morty and entropy cannons on PBC. MBH aren't worth taking with the forty percent price hike. Losing the weapon options to have some extra ways to counter vehicles hurts.

Awesome, plague marines units are really compelling - two (or three specials) and two heavy in a ten man unit. A couple of ten model units will look great on the battlefield - legion strength. 

 

I can see why some folks will chafe at the "loss" of MSU though. I feel like a third, bare bones MSU for the secondary objective will be worthwhile, just in a different way now.

 

You know any squad over 6 will be subjected to Blast rules.

[Marshal Loss]

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

[Vardus]

 

 

I don't like sorcs or pure psykers. Now we literally have to take one in a battalion detachment. The decision to limit DP to one per detachment as well as making them count as a lord of chaos means you can't a DP and Typhus or a LoC or anything else. Your only option is a sorc. I always ran my DG with either DP and Typhus or LoC or two DP. It wasn't chasing meta. It was simply my fluff and lore for my army.

 

Now I have no choice but to take a freaking sorc. It is a frankly idiotic decision that unfairly restricts player choice. We aren't a faction like CSM that has a dozen or more HQ choices that we can something else to take. You LITERALLY have to take a sorc. Unless you want to lose CP for no reason by taking several detachments...which no one with a brain would do.

 

I'm not a fan of the Lord of Chaos restriction, but it's consistent with how HQ units are treated in 9th edition. Space Marines can't take a captain and a lieutenant, the supreme command detachment is very limited by comparison, and Death Guard can't have Typhus and a Daemon Prince in the same detachment.

 

 

The Death Guard Codex is super restrictive on HQ units. Infernal Jealousy gives you a max of three HQ's, a "Lord" character and two psykers to choose from. Space Marines have Captains (one of), Lieutenants (two of), Librarian, Chaplain and a Techmarine all of which come in Primaris and First born options.

 

It would have been nice to have some Lieutenant level options (Aspiring Champions) to at least give some options.

[Bulwyf]

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

[Marshal Loss]

 

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

[jgascoine011]

Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

[Balerion84]

So what's the reasoning behind giving us Inexorable Advance and then only giving it to Helbrutes and Land Raiders? I just found out... At least those 3 MBHs I bought after PA were cheap... and the 1 PBC can still be nice. Should've bought those Blightlords. Too late now, they'll have to wait some time for the budget to allow them.

[Marshal Loss]

Hmm interesting? Just how are you planning on dealing with tripple decimators with soul burners, backed up by 2 disco lords and 2 defilers all with a 4++ and exploding 6’s? Or 5 Castilian robots? Or pretty much any big thing that pumps out a bunch of MW

You do know those aren't even the kinds of lists winning tournaments at the moment, right? Being able to take on things like Necron obsec Scarab spam or Daemon players with triple KoS and/or an unkillable Lord of Change are far more pressing issues. 9th isn't 8th.

[Bulwyf]

 

 

Other than the PBC (taking a single one just to take advantage of Disgusting Force seems like a good idea to me) and Fleshmower-equipped Bloat Drones, infantry over tanks all day every day. Our vehicles have been significantly impacted by the changes to DR and all of our infantry and characters are priced to move.

 

Suits me perfectly, I've always been a Terminator man above all else

 

But those terminators and infantry aren't anti tank and now are severely restricted in weapon options. We already had problems with anti tank in 8th and those problems are magnified in 9th with this codex.

 

To be honest I don't think enemy armour is much of a factor in stopping us from winning games in 9th edition.

 

 

I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. I don't know what opponents you play against but staring across at 3 Redemptor Dreads, Invictor Warsuits and Castellan robots as well as Sister of Battle tanks and Necron vehicles I absolutely have to factor in how to stop them in order to win games. If you are only facing infantry only lists in your local gaming more power to you.