Possible changes in the new codex.

[Iron Sage]

Good catch, I missed that little note down the bottom! Mentions tri-lobe units as well which confirms that we can still take them in units of 3.

Yeah, and that was one of my personal worries. I am really fond of running a unit with 3 in them. It is very strong and then they also got buffed in the new dex, I assumed that meant I could probably no longer field them in  squad. Got to say that I am happy with that revelation. At the same time, I am worried as to what tomorrow will bring in terms of Disgustingly Resilient. I really do hope our resilience does not get hurt. But we'll see, new rule could be equally strong, worse or better, or even the same !

 

As for the interesting lines as to what is core and what is not core, I am positively surprised. Plaguemarines, blightlords, Deathshrouds (!, not that they are currently cost effective, but who knows in the next dex, nice models anyway), new possessed and Myphitic Blight haulers (wow!). If mypithic blight haulers are core, so are probably also the Dreadnought, maybe even bloatdrones and it means they can get buffed with auras and may create interesting synergy etc.

 

But yeah, tomorrow will be an important reveal.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Iron Sage

[Wolf Lord Loki]

So it has changed: -1 to damage

 

Peoples thoughts?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/10/death-guard-rules-preview-part-4-disgustingly-resilient/

[TrawlingCleaner]

edit: ninja-ed

I can't say I'm that miffed to be honest, with very few dmg 3 weapons in the game D6 dmg weapons are basically wasted on them.

There could be stratagems etc to boost them to their previous resilience, maybe plague surgeons actually do something now?

Edited December 10, 2020 by TrawlingCleaner

[Marshal Loss]

I don't like it. Not because it's bad, per se, but because it makes absolutely no sense to me that DR only kicks in against high damage weapons. I'm also confused what this means for units like Poxwalkers who only have a single wound. Do they get literally no benefit from it, or have they been given a new rule?

[Raktra]

I’m mixed on it. The higher potential traded for a guaranteed reduction is alright, the loss of mortal wound protection is irritating though.

[TrawlingCleaner]

We don't yet know what the Contagion rules do yet, they could give us a MW ignoring or something similar

[TrawlingCleaner]

Also, I could see Pox Walkers getting a 5+ Daemonic Invuln or something similar

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

On the one hand, I feel like this puts the Blight Haulers in a much easier spot to balance. On the other, Plague Marines being more vulnerable to damage 1 weapons does feel a little weird. But they have 2 wounds now, so technically they're still not? Hmm. 

 

At the moment I'm not fond of it, but I don't dislike it either. It feels less fun but understandable. Makes me nervous to see how Nurgle Daemons get hit though.

[Marshal Loss]

They're not going to give a horde unit like Poxwalkers a 5++. They aren't daemons.

 

Death Guard - most resilient army in the galaxy, until you shoot them with small arms fire.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[TrawlingCleaner]

Genestealers can be taken in squads of 20 and have a 5++, all daemon units are essentially horde (actually able to take more than Pox Walkers).

It's not for certain but there is a precident for it at least.

Looking at the most current releases, it was easy to see a hefty shake up of some sort was on the way IMO. 2 wound T5 PM with a 5+++ would have been pretty horrendous , -1 dmg is definitely workable and actually pretty anti-meta

[Karhedron]

Not entirely sure how I fell about this. The old DR was pretty good because it scaled against the nature of the incoming attack. On the flip side, you dice could go cold and it could let you down.

 

The new rule is more reliable but has zero effect against 1D weapons. It reduces 2D weapons by 50%, 3D weapons by 33% and D6D weapons by a complicated and confusing amount. This means it is a bit skewy and provides no benefit to Pox Walkers (who will probably get something different instead).

 

On the flip side, it makes the game more streamlined as you apply a fixed rule to incoming damage rather than rolling more dice. Sure your opponent can try to chew through your Plague Marines with basic weapons but against a 2W T5 3+ army, that is going to take a while. This gives DG a big boost vs a lot of auto-take Marine killers like overcharged plasma, Grav and those pesky MC Power Swords that seem to be the new black amongst Bladeguard veterans.

 

I think on average it provides a little less protection than previously for your big hitters against really heavy weapons. Eradicators coming in from Reserve are more likely to put a big dent in your Daemon Engines for example.

 

Definitely a side-grade rather than a straight buff or nerf. What it does do is clear the design space for certain units or abilities to provide a FNP-like save as a buff.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Not happy with this nerf. Infinitly worse for 1D and mortal wounds, better for 2D, statistically the same for 3D, and worse for all damage over 3. Boooooooo.

[Marshal Loss]

Daemons have a 5++ because they are daemons. Genestealers cost 300 points for a unit of 20 before upgrades. Not at all comparable.

 

For all we know Poxwalkers may have kept the old 5+++, which - as they've got only 1 wound, and I don't see them getting 2 - would make sense. I'd be happy with that. What's clear is that either way Poxwalkers must have received a stat change/significant rewrite

Edited December 10, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[Gundric]

edit: ninja-ed

I can't say I'm that miffed to be honest, with very few dmg 3 weapons in the game D6 dmg weapons are basically wasted on them.

There could be stratagems etc to boost them to their previous resilience, maybe plague surgeons actually do something now?

Maybe plague surgeons give a FnP aura like loyalist apothecaries do?

[TrawlingCleaner]

As Karhedron points out, the amount of 2D weapons in the game now is climbing, it makes sense as all marines are getting bumped.

 

PM now have to be swamped by 1D/2D weapons or 3D weapons to be one shot. Blightlords are in a crazy good spot, needing to be either shot 3 times with 1/2D weapons or hit with 4D+ weapons. I think it will come out in the wash as being better the further along the edition rolls and the more 2D weapons spring up

 

Gundric: It wouldn't surprise me at all to be honest even if it only targets one unit that's still incrdible stacked with -1D

[Cleon]

If the Poxwalkers keep a even 6+ feel no pain and get the DR, only needing to make one 6 against a damage 2 weapon instead of two 5+ is a fair trade.

[Marshal Loss]

If the Poxwalkers keep a even 6+ feel no pain and get the DR, only needing to make one 6 against a damage 2 weapon instead of two 5+ is a fair trade.

Huh? If they stay 1 wound, that does absolutely nothing. Doesn't matter if they make a 6 against a D2 weapon when they die either way.......

[Ishagu]

I did say this was going to be the change some time ago. People weren't happy with me because I dared to report of whisperings about the change.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I did say this was going to be the change some time ago. People weren't happy with me because I dared to report of whisperings about the change.

No you tried arguing it was better, which it's not.

 

Here's the math.

 

Infinitly worse for 1D and mortal wounds. Don't need to explain.

 

DR with 2D has a 20/36 chance of stopping at least 1 damage and 4/36 chance of stopping two. This is the only damage it's better at.

 

With 3D, DR on average stops one. So it would average out to the same.

 

For everything over 3D, it's statistically worse.

 

2D is not everything. Over 50% of damage in the game is 1d, 3d+ or mw. This is a nerf. Not a buff.

[Ishagu]

It would be worse if that was the only change.

 

Luckily it comes alongside an increase in wounds, profile improvements for units across the board, weapon stat boosts, etc. No point in comparing a rule in a vacuum, especially now that we've seen some other changes.

 

And you specifically proclaimed that DR will not change. Eat the humble pie and don't dismiss rumours aggressively just because you don't like the content of said rumours.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Ishagu

[Special Officer Doofy]

It would be worse if that was the only change.

 

Luckily it comes alongside an increase in wounds, profile improvements for units across the board, weapon stat boosts, etc. No point in comparing a rule in a vacuum, especially now that we've seen some other changes.

 

And you specifically proclaimed that DR will not change. Eat the humble pie and don't dismiss rumours aggressively just because you don't like the content of said rumours.

I did, but what people were arguing with you in that thread was that it is worse. And DR did get worse, regardless if all the other rules change for the better. All marines and terminators were getting the wound increase and weapon profile change, and all Daemon engines were going 3+ bs/ws not just DG. But I said DR got worse, not DG got worse. Big difference...

 

And you of all people, the guy that said he was going to "write down dark angels players names" for rejoicing for a buff they got, should know you're not getting an apology from anyone.

[Ishagu]

@PutridChoir

 

Oh I'm not upset with people for being happy their army is being improved. I'm disappointed in people who would refuse to admit a rule might be too strong just because it benefits a faction they play.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Ishagu

[Zombs]

Let's see what other changes are being made. Maybe the surgeon will give some sort of boost? Maybe we have other rules that allow us to still get 5+++ on certain units?

 

As it stands now It Is a pretty substantial Nerf, but we'll see how the codex evolves.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Zombs

[Ishagu]

Arguably. The meta is shifting towards D2 and D3 weapons.

 

This rule is strictly better against those.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I mean with all the changes to the game, the shrinking of the board, the value of survival on objectives and buff to melee all help DG. And all the other leaked changes, such as Daemon engines getting 3+ ws/bs and marines going to 2W help DG too. DG has not gotten weaker overall, and thankfully because they had one of the lowest win rates in 8th, so far (barring point costs) they got better. But DR got worse.