Blade of Sanguinius: the best thing yet for BA?

[Shaezus]

Hey folks. I just wanted to share some findings from a mini RTT this weekend. My first outing with “new BA” though all I did was fit in a death company captain, not having time to make a whole new list.

 

 

Blade of sanguinius..i think it’s fair to say this one secondary influenced all the games more than any other single factor. Talking after the games and all three opponents said their deployment and movement was adjusted to stop me getting that 15VP.

 

It's a whole new thing for the game IMHO. Your opponent faces a choice: accept the challenge with a weaker character who can sit backfield and whose loss won't hurt his army, but perhaps more likely to give away VP. Or accept with their toughest character, and risk a double whammy of losing a vital part of their army whilst giving away VP

 

Against salamanders I bided time, advanced the smash cap in bounds alongside the San guard and priest, contributing to the midfield battle and points for Oaths. Then in turn 3 made the kill on Vulcan He’Stan and this put me in place to grab his home Objective.

 

Against Custodes I got the kill on Trajan on turn 1, with use of Forlorn fury. Big game changer with Custodes losing rerolls , free stratagems and other stuff besides.

 

Against Necrons I played like an absolute Muppet and, as always seems to happen when I make bad moves, my luck was at its worst. Had to abandon the kill on the silent king after I forgot to use forlorn fury, then my plasma inceptors killed themselves even with the captain nearby, causing only a few unsaved wounds in return.

 

BoS makes full use of the Death Visions. It rewards you with VP for killing a key character and effectively breaking the spine / cutting off the head of the enemy force. So you get VP for doing something which helps you win the wider battle. Be flexible and know whether to wait for a mid – late game kill or grab the opportunity for a turn 1 kill if it is likely to work.

 

Watch out for necron doomstalkers, they have a “for the greater good” ability which is free to use and can be used against every single charge within the range, not just once. Very nasty.

 

Please share your thoughts, experiences and any questions on how to make this unique BA thing work!

[Wassa]

Don’t use it against Guard... They’ll choose a 25pt character and keep it in strategic reserves all game forcing it to be destroyed and making 10 of the 15pts impossible.

[Majkhel]

Don’t use it against Guard... They’ll choose a 25pt character and keep it in strategic reserves all game forcing it to be destroyed and making 10 of the 15pts impossible.

Blade of Sangiunius is played at the beginning of the first battle-round, so said character would have to already be in strategic reserves, which means in turn he had other purpose in opponents battle plan which it will not be fulfilling if it never arrives. Characters are not that easy to get now as available slots in 'free' detachments fill-in quite fast.

 

Still it's a point to consider against armies with access to multiple cheap characters.

[Wassa]

Elites can have characters too which are often very cheap and occasionally expendable.

[Shaezus]

@Wassa that's a good point, something to consider for sure. If they do choose a character in reserves then you have up to three turns to use your character to help on the table, before setting up a late game kill. As Majkhel says, you're still interrupting whatever plans he originally had for that character.

 

This is a key point I'm trying to make; your character can still easily achieve the 15VP whilst contributing to the rest of the battle.

[The Unseen]

@Wassa that's a good point, something to consider for sure. If they do choose a character in reserves then you have up to three turns to use your character to help on the table, before setting up a late game kill. As Majkhel says, you're still interrupting whatever plans he originally had for that character.

 

This is a key point I'm trying to make; your character can still easily achieve the 15VP whilst contributing to the rest of the battle.

You still aren't understanding, if the character is in reserve, the opponent never has to put the character in this scenario on the table

They can leave him in reserve and have them be killed by not arriving, giving you just 5 pts

[SnorriSnorrison]

Yeah that secondary seems to be the best one for us yet, I mistakenly assumed that Relentless Assault and Linebreaker could be used simultaneously...

 

Since you choose the character at the start of your first command phase, the game has already begun and all strategic and other reserves will have been selected at that point. Even IF your opponent tries anything funky, if that character doesn't come on the board by Turn 5(?) it counts as destroyed, giving you 5 points minimum. Sure, it's a 10 point deny, but you'll most likely have chosen a relevant character from his army that he retrospectively needs to 1) get out of danger, which being up against Blood Angels, is basically the board, 2) protect at all costs which can lead him to make mistakes, or 3) use resources he might need for the objective game.

 

I can feel it.

[Xenith]

 

@Wassa that's a good point, something to consider for sure. If they do choose a character in reserves then you have up to three turns to use your character to help on the table, before setting up a late game kill. As Majkhel says, you're still interrupting whatever plans he originally had for that character.

 

This is a key point I'm trying to make; your character can still easily achieve the 15VP whilst contributing to the rest of the battle.

You still aren't understanding, if the character is in reserve, the opponent never has to put the character in this scenario on the table

They can leave him in reserve and have them be killed by not arriving, giving you just 5 pts

 

 

In your scenario, the opponent either tailored the army to fight BA with a disposable character, or are reserving and killing a character they had plans for.

 

If they're tailoring, you probably wont win anyway, but they still are wasting points, slots and CP.

 

If they reserve a different character, then they've wasted a lot of points, a couple of CP, and a slot. 

 

Either way, the secondary changes the whole way your opponent has to play the game, which is a major advantage. 

[Rhavien]

 

 

 

@Wassa that's a good point, something to consider for sure. If they do choose a character in reserves then you have up to three turns to use your character to help on the table, before setting up a late game kill. As Majkhel says, you're still interrupting whatever plans he originally had for that character.

 

This is a key point I'm trying to make; your character can still easily achieve the 15VP whilst contributing to the rest of the battle.

You still aren't understanding, if the character is in reserve, the opponent never has to put the character in this scenario on the table

They can leave him in reserve and have them be killed by not arriving, giving you just 5 pts

In your scenario, the opponent either tailored the army to fight BA with a disposable character, or are reserving and killing a character they had plans for.

 

If they're tailoring, you probably wont win anyway, but they still are wasting points, slots and CP.

 

If they reserve a different character, then they've wasted a lot of points, a couple of CP, and a slot.

 

Either way, the secondary changes the whole way your opponent has to play the game, which is a major advantage.

And you have a look at each others list before picking secondaries. So if you spy a disposable 35 points character in your opponents list you can still pick another one.

[Xenith]

Yes, between that and the most units in opposing DZ secondary, BA have some real good ways of punishing players that castle up. If you pick both, they have to (hopefully) overextend, allowing you opportunity for a surgical strike to kill that character.

[Diagramdude]

I play guard, and my “disposable” cheap characters are crucial parts of the list. Forcing me to keep my psychic barrier astropath or company commander off the board is going to significantly impact my army more than their 25-35 points would imply.

[Lord Raven 19]

Question, if said target were killed by an explosion or from a destryed transport failed disembarkation, how many points would that give the BA player?

[BrotherAetherick]

Question, if said target were killed by an explosion or from a destryed transport failed disembarkation, how many points would that give the BA player?

 

5

[Hintzy]

Question, if said target were killed by an explosion or from a destryed transport failed disembarkation, how many points would that give the BA player?

5

 

Aetherick wins.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Hintzy

[smileyjim]

I dunno its very situational and a good player can deny it easily. Against some good shooty or killy lists they can turn it against you and delete your character while you trying too get close enough.

 

Against armies like necrons with the c'tan 3 wounds per phase it gets even harder as its easy to avoid shooting and you won't survive 3 rounds if combat if you make it to them.

 

I'd say relentless assault is by far the best one. It effects how they deploy and play far more as its effecting their whole army not 1 character. It compliments things like scramblers and engage as well as us wanting mid field control.

It would be way easier to get more points than blade of sanguinious and although there's armies it would be bad against (harlequins) the occasions to not take it would be way less than blade.

[Shaezus]

 

Either way, the secondary changes the whole way your opponent has to play the game, which is a major advantage.

 

This is the biggest thing about it IMO

[Shaezus]

Everything in the game is situational, anything can be countered or worked around.

 

BoS is in a different category to Relentless Assault; you don't have to decide between one or the other. Space Wolves, White Scars, Raven Guard, Harlequins, Drukhari, Nids, Orks, heck even Necrons are capable of getting multiple units into your DZ turn 1 onward. Tau commanders even. So only a minority of factions are not capable of countering RA. That's without considering the smaller boards and mission; "sweep and clear" is a particularly difficult one for pulling off RA.

 

BoS competes with things like Assassinate and Bring it Down. The advantage is that it's something BA lists can easily be geared towards without affecting the lists performance elsewhere. And why choose to have 4 characters to kill for 12 points when you can have 1 for 15

 

I'm not saying it's going to be number one choice every time. But IMO it's the easiest for BA to accommodate and not so easy for opponents to prevent.

[smileyjim]

True but with relentless assault if they truth throw units into our dz that's playing to our strengths, we want short charges and many units would have to get through our mid board first.

 

There's so much you can do to keep 1 character away from another. You could literally get your character killed to hard deny 10 points. Id drop any character in my list in a heartbeat if its a 10vp deny against the opponent especially if i get to choose which one.

 

In close game or a game where your opponents list has excellent secondaries BoS is just giving away points

[Shaezus]

Those are all good points

 

In tournament environments however, points are tight and even the cheapest character must justify their inclusion in a list.

 

If someone finds the points to take a character specifically with the purpose of screwing with BoS, fair play to them. In that case I'll maybe take another secondary. Same as I wouldn't take other secondaries under certain conditions.

 

If they accept the challenge then so long as that character is on the board, there are 5 turns to play and BA jump pack captains have many tools to deal with various ways they might try to protect him. As others have already said, anything that forces the opponent to change his plans has great value in the game

 

In the first 3 games I've tried it it's been the best scoring secondary and the most influential on how the game was played.

[Diagramdude]

BoS also somewhat synergizes with relentless assault, in that their chosen character is likely to be held back in safety, and the abilities and auras that character provides will not be used to help push into your own DZ.

 

It should also be noted that relentless assault is scored at the END of the blood angels turn, so even if your opponent puts units into your DZ you have your entire turn to persuade them to leave.

[Karhedron]

It should also be noted that relentless assault is scored at the END of the blood angels turn, so even if your opponent puts units into your DZ you have your entire turn to persuade them to leave.

Agreed, scoring at the end of your own turn makes Relentless Assault stronger than it looks on paper since you get a turn to counter any attempts your opponent makes to negate it. While several armies can easily get units into our DZ, they may not want to if you are messing with their DZ Objective. You are forcing your opponent to choose between coming into your DZ just to shut down your secondary as opposed to attacking something of their own preference. The more choices you force your opponents to make, the more likely that they will make a mistake or their dice will betray them.

[SnorriSnorrison]

BoS also somewhat synergizes with relentless assault, in that their chosen character is likely to be held back in safety, and the abilities and auras that character provides will not be used to help push into your own DZ.

It should also be noted that relentless assault is scored at the END of the blood angels turn, so even if your opponent puts units into your DZ you have your entire turn to persuade them to leave.

The two don’t synergise at all unfortunately, because you can only select one of them as your secondary. Maybe with linebreaker, which is just a different Relentless Assault.

[Shaezus]

They do seem to complement each other well. RA being 4 points is also a big thing, as you can still get full VP even if you don't score it on turn 1. This has always been the issue with engage on all fronts for me, requiring units in each corner on all 5 turns for max VP

 

BoS also somewhat synergizes with relentless assault, in that their chosen character is likely to be held back in safety, and the abilities and auras that character provides will not be used to help push into your own DZ.

It should also be noted that relentless assault is scored at the END of the blood angels turn, so even if your opponent puts units into your DZ you have your entire turn to persuade them to leave.

The two don’t synergise at all unfortunately, because you can only select one of them as your secondary. Maybe with linebreaker, which is just a different Relentless Assault.

They're from different categories, so you can take both.

[SnorriSnorrison]

They do seem to complement each other well. RA being 4 points is also a big thing, as you can still get full VP even if you don't score it on turn 1. This has always been the issue with engage on all fronts for me, requiring units in each corner on all 5 turns for max VP

 

BoS also somewhat synergizes with relentless assault, in that their chosen character is likely to be held back in safety, and the abilities and auras that character provides will not be used to help push into your own DZ.

It should also be noted that relentless assault is scored at the END of the blood angels turn, so even if your opponent puts units into your DZ you have your entire turn to persuade them to leave.

The two don’t synergise at all unfortunately, because you can only select one of them as your secondary. Maybe with linebreaker, which is just a different Relentless Assault.

They're from different categories, so you can take both.

You can’t, brother. Please read the abstract above the secondaries again, it states “you can choose one to be from below list...”. The most you get is Oaths of Moment and RA, not another from the BA supplement.

[Shaezus]

@Snorri you have keener eyes than I! It's blurred but I believe you're right, it says "select one of them"