Mortis

[Lucerne]

I like the

  Reveal hidden contents

Alpha legion meddling

 

and find it hilarious just how much of a shambles the traitor war effort is. Even given Horus losing his mind in canon around now, this feels like the Siege from the traitor POV is less a Siege and more just a fiasco of collective incompetence all around.

[depthcharge12]

I’m trying my darndest not to read the spoilers, still haven’t gotten my shipping notification yet :(

[StrangerOrders]

  On 1/30/2021 at 1:28 AM, Lucerne said:

I like the

  Reveal hidden contents

Alpha legion meddling

 

and find it hilarious just how much of a shambles the traitor war effort is. Even given Horus losing his mind in canon around now, this feels like the Siege from the traitor POV is less a Siege and more just a fiasco of collective incompetence all around.

In fairness, the idiocy seems wide and evenly spread.

 

I point you to the Khan almost getting offed by a Plague Knife, Khârn breaking physics, Magnus only now recalling that he apparently knows how to Last Jedi the established rules of Void War insetting and Dorn's entire existence save for Saturnine. To say nothing of Malc's intelligence seeming more hellbent on sabotaging himself than actively helping the war effort.

 

Heck, the Spoilers and the very premise of this book makes Beta Gamon possibly the most embarrassing military fiasco insetting and let's be honest and admit it wasn't even that bright an idea beforehand.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Actually, even without Necromancy, feeding the Traitors hundreds of titan chassis piecemeal was never a good idea given how salvageable adamantium frames tend to be and how good at pulling resources from thin air the Dark Mechanicum of 30k seems to be.

 

Thinking it further though, I do sort of think that it is a mix of needing to stretch out the Siege, follow a very specific script and the fact that the authors sometimes treat characters as tools to achieve an end does tend to result in our little pantheon of demigods coming across a bit poorly.

Edited January 30, 2021 by StrangerOrders

[JH79]

  On 1/29/2021 at 1:10 PM, Robbienw said:

 

  On 1/29/2021 at 11:53 AM, JH79 said:

 

  On 1/29/2021 at 11:34 AM, Robbienw said:

I’ve finished now guys, here is the last of the spoilers!

Any chance of a non spoiler review for those of us resisting the temptation? 

 

 

Its a long book and slow at the start, but well worth the read.  The titan stuff is ace, nicely written titan battling in there. It also expands key background details on certain characters and certain topics that most heresy fans will want to now.  Gives a good look into the effects of the war on the non-astartes.  Essential reading for Dark Angels fans.

 

Also, and will put this in tags because its could be considered mildy spoilerific:

 

Awesome, thank you! I read the first line of your spoiler but no further, happy to hear there's some Emperor's Children love as thus far it feel's like we haven't seen much of anything from them. Really looking forward to this book, having just re-read Solar War for the first time since it's initial release, I found myself enjoying it far more the second time around and pretty hyped for more John French goodness!

[Scammel]

I think Mortis is a little better than The First Wall, but I was left more disappointed by it. It feels unfair to compare practically any BL book to Saturnine, but that was a masterwork of bringing together mortal and Astartes story threads, giving them the appropriate due and paying them off in ways that were both exciting and touching. Mortis has a similar scope in terms of all of the elements at play, but the prioritisation of particular threads and the brevity of others is very frustrating.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

First of all, I award myself top marks for Calling It. I guessed about two years ago that Oll was the one responsible for the Emperor's apparent pre-unification catatonia, and I'm taking full credit.

 

This is probably not the most constructive way of going about things, but while the book is fresh in my mind I'll simply list some of my more egregious bugbears:

 

- The most significant events of the plot happen off-screen, if at all. Mortis, their pet zombie titans, and three loyal legions all face off in the wasteland in the final twenty or so pages... and we are simply told that the loyalists lose, a few pages later. Perturabo makes the decision to quit the battle, and the departure of his fleet (one of the greatest revelations this book has to offer in terms of the in-universe history of the siege) happens off-screen. Mortis do not breach the walls in this book.

 

- The Ordo Sinister are hyped to the extent that Dorn takes their sanction by the Emperor as an indictment of his efforts in the siege thus far - to everyone concerned, these are the absolute worst weapons the loyalists have at their disposal. Their entire on-screen presence in the battle is represented by a single Warlord, who takes out two traitor engines before simply being shot dead; there is no set piece where a Sinister maniple cut through Greater Daemons like butter.

 

- There's a major plot point where the defenders of the walls are depopulated by a psychic beckoning that drives many of them to commit suicide. It's the most effective and creepiest scene of the book, but it just kind of... vanishes after the fact. Asides from the operational difficulties presented, the loyalists don't really bat an eyelid - it simply appears to stop, no one actively tries to prevent it or even reflect on what has happened. 

 

- Your mileage may vary on this, but I've always found titan combat to be rather boring, and the novel has very little cut-and-thrust to offer outside of this other than a few skirmishes with Oll and Katsuhiro. I'm really looking forward to some Astartes crunch next time around.

 

- Shibhan's travels across the wastes (and the stream of nonsensical spiritual advice offered by his own mind phantasms) would be dull halfway through the Heresy series as a whole, but it's completely baffling that an editor didn't exorcise this plot thread in book five of the siege. I'm very confident that more pages were given over to this than the ten thousand Dark Angels running the gauntlet to try and relight the Astronomicon.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Scammel

[DarkChaplain]

The "the important stuff happens off-page" criticism reminds me of French's Tallarn, too, to be honest. While Executioner is still one of my top novellas in the setting, Ironclad does precisely that. All the big moments are basically relegated to short interludes more akin to history write-ups than ongoing plotlines. The focus lies elsewhere entirely.

[SkimaskMohawk]

@scammel first wall is hard to beat for being terrible because the entire premise of the book doesnt make sense. You add terrible characterization on top of that and youre left with something that feels best summarized as "the Lions gate port fell to the traitors".

 

So it's a pretty low bar imo. The next question would be if it's better than LatD, because it had some pretty good parts, but some weaker parts as well.

 

@darkchaplain we kind of always disagree on Ironclad, but imo the point of the book wasnt about the big moments.

[Marshal Rohr]

@Ribbienw,

 

I don't suppose they mentioned a month or timeframe at all did they? I believe Saturnine was still in the summer and if this is close to the end game it would be close to Christmas. 

[Bobss]

  On 1/30/2021 at 12:51 AM, Crix said:

Not a fan of the Iron Warriors developments.

  Reveal hidden contents

IMO the Iron Warriors withdrawing from Terra during the Siege sets up the Iron Cage better. I can't believe I'm defending this, but it sort of does. Throughout the Siege we're told that this is the battle between Perturabo and Dorn, to finally prove who is the superior siege commander. After the Siege turns into a :cussshow of Demon Primarchs and Demon Engines, Perturabo leaves and sets up his 'game' on Sebastus to finally settle the score. After this, Perturabo decidedly throws his lot in with Chaos... or maybe he doesn't. It sort of works, but it delays the Perturabo-Vs-Dorn payoff, and sacrifices a part of the Siege as a result. I don't want to see a The Horus Heresy: The Scouring series, but I fully expect a John French Iron Cage novel in the next <5 years on the back of this

 

I don't necessarily mind the narrative change that seems to take place in Mortis... if it's written well. The Iron Warriors withdraw, Horus assumes a greater degree of command over the Traitor forces, finally smashing his way into the Inner Palace (I guess? What even IS the Mercury Wall?) using his heaviest assets deployed through the two hard-fought Space Ports. It's classic Horus - a speartip assault but with overwhelming numerical, material and (now) demonic superiority. Who needs Perturabo's tight chess game when you can just cut the Gordian Knot yourself? It also contrasts to Abaddon's gambit wanting to win the war cleanly and without suspect allegiances. You could also argue that the Iron Warriors' departure sets up the Khan retaking the Lionsgate Space Port better, and maybe even leaving the Solar System devoid of protection, thereby increasing the threat of Guilliman's rearguard assault, and you can bet your bottom dollar it would be dour, solid legionaries of the 4th who would be manning all of those turrets and space stations

 

So yeah, as someone who hasn't (and wont, for a while) read the book, it sort of works, but I hope a lot of this is supported in French's writing, and doesn't just come across as me trying to cope with this newest development

[Robbienw]

  On 1/30/2021 at 4:49 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

@Ribbienw,

 

I don't suppose they mentioned a month or timeframe at all did they? I believe Saturnine was still in the summer and if this is close to the end game it would be close to Christmas.

I think the month was mentioned at the start but can’t remember what it was, will have a look back through.

[theSpirea]

Various bookstores have Mortis hardback listed for mid March.

[Fedor]

Iron Warriors..

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Their retreat would work better if it was after the Emperor's psychic shielding goes down, the daemon hordes arrive in full and the madness really kicks into high gear. Right now it still seems a largely loyalist/traitor affair even with the heavy traitor corruption Pert has been overlooking.

[Robbienw]

Marshal Rohr,

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The date at the start of the book is given; the 27th of Quintus.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Wow, that's only May by my reckoning . Maybe the Siege does not last a whole year. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Marshal Rohr

[Cerbero666]

Now that I've been reading Riven and Keys of Hel again, there's no mention of Crius and the rest of the Iron Hands revenants? I thought they were supposed to be summoned by Boreas, or (as he died in Solar War) by Dorn or the Fists. Seems like another plotline that was cut out from the Siege. Maybe in a novella but I don't know... It seems there's a rush to end the Heresy quickly, even leaving some major characters or plotlines without a proper ending. F'rex what about Sevatar and the rest of the Night Lords that were imprisoned by the Dark Angels? We have not heard of them since the Long Night and that was in 2014, more than six years ago. What about Alexis Polux? Where is he? Did he returned to Terra with the Blood Angels or stayed with Guilliman? Where are Crysos Morturg and Calleb Decima? Last we know of them they were going to Terra. I understand that is difficult to put every single character and plotline in 8 books or so, but there's not a single mention of any them, as if they just vanished from the galaxy. And particularly the case of Sevatar (six years ago...) is frustrating.

 

That's my problem with the Iron Warriors news. Is like they were occupaying a page limit and had to be left out so other character and plotlines could shine. But the narrative excuse seems weak. They just vanished like the rest of the characters I mentioned. I think that a 10 novels series could have solved this problem, but I guess they wanted to go to the next series of books.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Cerbero666

[Marshal Rohr]

ADB mentioned in his AoSCoach interview he’s got the story beats laid out for Sevatar’s arc but his schedule is full at the moment. He mentioned he’s not opposed to returning to finish it.

 

 

Edit: by full I mean, several years full. He is still writing his Siege Novel, and even if he turned it in tomorrow it won’t be out before Fall.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Marshal Rohr

[RedFurioso]

  On 1/31/2021 at 12:35 AM, Marshal Rohr said:

Wow, that's only May by my reckoning . Maybe the Siege does not last a whole year. 

The Siege ended on October 3.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The biggest problem with perturabos arc is that he had two garbage appearances from Haley and Thorpe in the siege. They were so inconsistent that he might as well not have been there; coupled with his short appearance in Saturnine and he basically hasn't appeared since Solar War.

 

Now, we know that up until Solar War his arc consisted of massacaring Olympia and the self-revelation that he could never be forgiven by the emperor for that action, being betrayed and almost killed by fulgrim in his quest for ascension, trying to find a weapon to prevent betrayals from happening but still getting undermined by alpha legion and forced to abandon the project by horus, being sent into a meat grinder by horus and then told to abandon the position and waste more troops holding the ultramarines from terra while also retrieving daemon angron, making the plan to break the solar system but having his troops used as first wave fodder around Pluto. If we include the terrible siege portrayals, he also gets to see how far the corruption runs in the 4 daemon primarchs, how unreliable that makes them and how far from the beginning they've come.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

taking that all together, I can believe that he leaves terra. He joined horus out of shame of his actions and belief in horus, but he's been consistently abused since he made that decision; fulgrim tried to kill him, the alpha legion sabotaged him, horus used him in the exact way he was mad at the imperium about. Already soured on daemon stuff by fulgrim, he then sees the majority of his brothers are going down that path, only for horus to be revealed as at the apex of that too. So to me, everything adds up to him going "this is getting crazy and I'm done dealing with you problem-causing daemon-slaves; let's see you guys struggle through the rest of terra because I'm not wasting more of my legion on it" . Now, I don't think I believe that they would exit the solar system. It'd make more sense for him to go occupy the translation point defences to watch for the reinforcing loyalists while still being able to see the remaining traitors struggle. It also wouldn't break the continuity in that the sons of horus abandoned ship and left the rest of the legions behind.

[Scammel]

For me, it's not that Pert's actions are incredible, but more the fact that his decision takes all of two conversations in the first act of the book - after he's been rolling so high and hard for the first half of the siege, this needed to be a drawn out simmer across the entirety of a single novel. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

  On 1/31/2021 at 3:57 PM, Scammel said:

For me, it's not that Pert's actions are incredible, but more the fact that his decision takes all of two conversations in the first act of the book - after he's been rolling so high and hard for the first half of the siege, this needed to be a drawn out simmer across the entirety of a single novel.

So here's the thing, I think that (anger through a novels length) was in the brief and they tried to set it up in LatD, but Haley somehow dropped the ball when writing perturabo considering his success in Hammer of Olympia. Remember how we were all confused why he was angsty and weirdly touchy about his accomplishments not being recognized? Makes a lot more sense if it was a fumbled arc for the Mortis spoiler.

 

It sucks if that's what happened, because I tend to love French's perturabo and iron warriors. He really put a lot of work into the character and coupled with Haley's Hammer of Olympia I think we get the best primarch arc...up until it stops in LatD.

 

I honestly feel like perturabo becoming a daemon prince after the iron cage and then being spurred into action by abaddon isn't the best ending of that arc. Imo the iron cage should be him proving himself in strategy and tactics once and for all; underlining the point he made with the siege about his capabilities. He should just walk away and be bitter about past choices after, as he doesn't have anything left to prove. Becoming a daemon and then sulking is weird.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Actually, I think it makes perfect sense, when you remember that apotheosis isn’t really something you choose. Abaddon is the only one to ever “turn it down”. For everyone else, when the Gods say “it’s Princing time”, you don’t get to say “nah I’m good thanks”.

Perturabo leaving the Siege and creating the Iron Cage purely to prove the superiority of untainted, flesh-and-blood Astartes, denying the Chaos Gods, only to defeat Dorn and the Chaos Gods to say “great work, Perty, that worked just as we wished it to, here’s your reward for doing such a good job”? Yeah, that’s just proved that he was just as effected as his brothers, he just couldn’t see it. Even when trying to deny Chaos, he was doing exactly what it wanted.

 

Of course he’d sulk for 10,000 years after that. As much as I love the character, he’s petulant as hell. If, in his eyes, it was proved to him that not only was he used and discarded by both the Emperor and Horus, but that his entire life was being directed by the Chaos Hods according to their plans, and he wasn’t smart enough to see it, then his response would definitely be to essentially lock himself in his room.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I love the Iron Warrior developments in this novel. It feels very in character for them and as a massive fan of Perturabo and his sons.....I kinda agree with his decision to be honest.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I mean, it's presented as a complete choice in the case of every cult primarchs.

 

-fulgrim chose to pursue a ritual that'd turn him into a daemon

-lorgar chose to pursue a ritual that'd turn angron into a daemon

-mortarion was given a choice with the destroyer plague

-Magnus is kind of the outlier in that he was always kind of more daemonic/psychic in nature than human. He got shattered and the ritual to get away from Prospero discarded his physical form.

 

Point being, people usually have to put in the effort explicitly to turn into a daemon prince/equivalent. Abaddon refusing gifts, Bile's refusal to even consider daemons a thing, the whole "armour of contempt" concept that gets seen in abnett's works; if you really don't want chaos, then you won't get warped by its power.

[Lord_Caerolion]

  On 1/31/2021 at 7:56 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

I mean, it's presented as a complete choice in the case of every cult primarchs.

 

-fulgrim chose to pursue a ritual that'd turn him into a daemon

-lorgar chose to pursue a ritual that'd turn angron into a daemon

-mortarion was given a choice with the destroyer plague

-Magnus is kind of the outlier in that he was always kind of more daemonic/psychic in nature than human. He got shattered and the ritual to get away from Prospero discarded his physical form.

 

Point being, people usually have to put in the effort explicitly to turn into a daemon prince/equivalent. Abaddon refusing gifts, Bile's refusal to even consider daemons a thing, the whole "armour of contempt" concept that gets seen in abnett's works; if you really don't want chaos, then you won't get warped by its power.

As a counterargument, I’d point to the Night Lords in Talos’ warband, or the gradual corruption of the other Iron Warriors over the course of the Heresy. You don’t have to explicitly worship, or even accept Chaos, to be changed by it.

 

I could see Perturabo’s “ascension” being akin to Mortarions, not really a “proud” moment at all, or really even a choice, but rather at the moment when the Gods reveal that everything he’s done has been to their plan, so he may as well give in.

I mean, Mortarions options weren’t really a choice there. He had to pick between eternal servitude to the forces he hates, or spend eternity watching his Legion suffer in undying agony.

 

Edit: And yes, what Angron/Lorgar/Fulgrim did weren’t “choices” in that they could turn it down, just that the situation was deliberately created. They made the respective gods sit up and take notice of them, rewarding them for their work. That’s not showing them rejecting Chaos but getting it anyway. We’re repeatedly told that the special thing in Abaddons relationship with Chaos is that he’s capable of telling them no without getting spawned, that’s kinda ruined if it becomes “oh, you can totally do it, you just have to be a strict atheist”.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Lord_Caerolion

[Marshal Rohr]

You guys are forgetting the Imperial Fists won the Iron Cage and Perturabo was forced to accept daemonhood in exchange for salvation ;)