Dawn of Fire & Dark Imperium Timeline Change

[b1soul]

He pretty much is the Imperium's new ruler...son of the Imperium's God, who rose from the grave to save the homeworld from Daemonic incursion

 

I don't think the relatively short 12-year period will break the setting

 

Just wish they planned this out, rather than wind back the clock in a rather awkward way.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

As far as I can tell yeh only thing that will change is the date of the plague war, so everything else after is still cannon and we’re still currently as far as it can be measured accurately around 100/150 years after the rift (relative)

 

So my estimation is rift opens, Guiliman returns to terra for troops.... starts Indomitus.... plague wars..... vilgilus .. same ish time scales are also guiliman reinforces Baal & pariah war zone as he’s not there... darkness in the blood couple of years after (dawn of fire series during and after these events as we work our way through the series) ... ADB emperors spears set at least 100 years after the rift so probably the most up to date current novel (again relative with time stuff)

 

I don't think it's safe to assume that at all. Vigilus for one really doesn't make sense as Dante should have been right in the thick of it with Baal now re-syncing with the rest of the Imperium after 14 years at most (possibly even less, Haley gave a timeframe of 10-14 years from a Terran perspective). Vigilus supposedly wrapped up 25 years after the Rift opened yet the new regent of Imperium Nihilus is relatively close by for the last decade of that conflict and doesn't do anything to help out? No, that's going to need a rewrite.

 

And it seems a big part of the reason for moving the DI books forward was to make the ending of the Indomitus Crusade more ambiguous (including WHEN exactly it ended) and thus raise the potential stakes for all of the campaign material going forward.

 

As for the Spear novel, references to it being over a century after the Rift opened are probably easy edits as well. We know the Torchbearer Fleets made it to the Elara's Veil region in a reasonably timely fashion, warp disturbances or not, and that Primaris marines had been a thing for the Emperor's Spears for "a while" before the events of the Spear novel. But "a while" might be revised to fifteen years or so instead of a century.

 

Once the new DI novels are out, I would expect GW will probably issue some kind of article illustrating where the prominent books fit into the new timeline. Spear may be set at some nebulous time after the end of the first phase of the Crusade, but I doubt it will continue to bet set over a century after the Rift opened.

[WARMASTER_]

That shouldn't be the case - it was seventy years from the perspective of those outside of Baal before (which would include Terra). It's now 10-14 years from that same perspective. It's a very clear change, dictated by the same decision to move up the events of the DI novels.

Nah Hayley wrote it in to the DOB novel Karlean and apheal looked like they’d aged a lifetime, basically the closer to the centre of the rift opening distorted time even more for the 3rd company at cadia and the 1/5th at diamor they’d lived another hundred plus years

[Scribe]

Ugh. A retcon of this degree, this early into a cycle of the story?

 

Embarrassing. 

[WARMASTER_]

I don't think it's safe to assume that at all. Vigilus for one really doesn't make sense as Dante should have been right in the thick of it with Baal now re-syncing with the rest of the Imperium after 14 years at most (possibly even less, Haley gave a timeframe of 10-14 years from a Terran perspective). Vigilus supposedly wrapped up 25 years after the Rift opened yet the new regent of Imperium Nihilus is relatively close by for the last decade of that conflict and doesn't do anything to help out? No, that's going to need a rewrite.

 

And it seems a big part of the reason for moving the DI books forward was to make the ending of the Indomitus Crusade more ambiguous (including WHEN exactly it ended) and thus raise the potential stakes for all of the campaign material going forward.

 

As for the Spear novel, references to it being over a century after the Rift opened are probably easy edits as well. We know the Torchbearer Fleets made it to the Elara's Veil region in a reasonably timely fashion, warp disturbances or not, and that Primaris marines had been a thing for the Emperor's Spears for "a while" before the events of the Spear novel. But "a while" might be revised to fifteen years or so instead of a century.

 

Once the new DI novels are out, I would expect GW will probably issue some kind of article illustrating where the prominent books fit into the new timeline. Spear may be set at some nebulous time after the end of the first phase of the Crusade, but I doubt it will continue to bet set over a century after the Rift opened.

I completely agree they’ve moved it back so they can now fashion a better or at least more open end to the crusade it makes sense to leave it open

 

But I’m still definitely of the opinion they’re only moving back this conflict and not the entire time line. The current time line will still be 100+ years after but now they get to fill in the blanks, I think the spears book is still current year they’ve got at least 100 years of Primaris history in the spears book including generations of dead Primaris

 

It’s not the entire time line they’re moving just the position of plague war within it

 

Vigilus is tricky I agree but Dante can’t be everywhere and he has the entire nihilis to look after not just one route through

Edited December 6, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

That shouldn't be the case - it was seventy years from the perspective of those outside of Baal before (which would include Terra). It's now 10-14 years from that same perspective. It's a very clear change, dictated by the same decision to move up the events of the DI novels.

Nah Hayley wrote it in to the DOB novel Karlean and apheal looked like they’d aged a lifetime, basically the closer to the centre of the rift opening distorted time even more for the 3rd company at cadia and the 1/5th at diamor they’d lived another hundred plus years

 

 

But the exact wording was "Beyond Baal, seventy years had gone by." Not "For those closer to the center of the Rift, seventy years had gone by." If there IS a passage that says otherwise, I missed it.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Leaves it open that the Fallen campaign could occur during the Indomitus crusade, now that we know why Guilliman wouldn't have mentioned it in Dark Imperium.

Or perhaps we'll find out what the EC are doing. Lots of odd stuff from PA that starts making more sense.

Edited December 6, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[WARMASTER_]

But the exact wording was "Beyond Baal, seventy years had gone by." Not "For those closer to the center of the Rift, seventy years had gone by." If there IS a passage that says otherwise, I missed it.

You’re right it is 70 years not 100 but it’s also stated it’s from the temporal flux from the rift opening

 

So Baal has only seen six months where as everyone else including the indomitus crusade saw 70 years, I concluded that the 1/3/5 companies were making haste for Baal not just fighting in the indomitus crusade as they were re called to aid them so it shouldn’t have taken them 70 years?

 

To me it seemed like the time distortion would then be more extreme to the guys at cadia, I mean the BA could well have fought their why back with guiliman if their fleets converged and just hoped it was still standing when they arrived? but it seems unlikely given the gravity of what they faced on Baal

 

It all gets a bit confusing with time distortions everywhere, but then I guess that’s why they’ve done it

 

I’m sure all of this will also be explained more clearly as guy edits the books and more of the dawn of fire series continues

[WARMASTER_]

Sorry @lord Nord I think I misread your first timeline post, I do agree actually they will have to strip back the time difference with how long it took them to get to Baal to make its timeline appropriate for the crusade era

[DukeLeto69]

As a slight aside, I would love to see the authors tackle the absolute logistical nightmare of coordinating the logistics for a crusade when warp travel is so unreliable...

 

Ie. Reinforcements or food supplies turn up 50 years too late OR too early!

[WARMASTER_]

There’s a great VoxCast with Andy Clark where he talks about how his job in the last 2 years had just been thinking about that stuff, it’s a great listen if you’ve not already Dukeleto69

 

I’m not sure how to link anymore but it’s Episode 22 :)

Edited December 6, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[b1soul]

I think most here feel that shortening of the post-Rift time-line is not a bad idea in and of itself. The main gripe is that 112 to 12 is rather...unnecessary, and is likely to create more inconsistency with what Haley has already set up with DI.

[WARMASTER_]

B1soul it’s not the entire timeline they’re shifting it’s one conflict within the time line, they’ve just moved the date of plague war not the entire series Edited December 7, 2020 by BladeOfVengeance

[Ishagu]

On the topic of Guilliman getting around, in the stories it does basically confirm that the Emperor calms the Warp around him as he travels, so it's very easy for him to get around even post Great Rift.

[Slave to Darkness]

Ahh yes, plot armour.. A shriveled up raisen cant even fart but he can calm the warp... 

[Ishagu]

Think you must lack knowledge of established lore. The Emperor is very active in the Warp.

[Blindhamster]

Think you must lack knowledge of established lore. The Emperor is very active in the Warp.

true, more recent stuff has done quite a bit to show that the emperor legitimately does protect (sometimes). In a variety of ways.

[b1soul]

Yes, I know...it's basically moving the events of DI and Plague War to 12 years after leaving Terra. The entire Crusade probably still lasts at least a century in this new timeline.

 

BL tends to swing between extremes is what I'm saying. The end of phase one could come after, say, 36 years and you could still merge DoF with DI fairly easily while retaining a setting with Primaris veterans/semi-veterans.

 

12 years is really green for Astartes who awakened from stasis after the Rift opened up. So it's just...why not pick a longer period that's still much shorter than 112 years? How is this optimal for minimising the effect of the retcon?

[WARMASTER_]

Ahh yes, plot armour.. A shriveled up raisen cant even fart but he can calm the warp...

The emperor has always calmed the warp? It’s like the entire reason they keep him alive, the astronomican is only for that... I don’t get the confusion it’s a central theme in the lore

[WARMASTER_]

Yes, I know...it's basically moving the events of DI and Plague War to 12 years after leaving Terra. The entire Crusade probably still lasts at least a century in this new timeline.

 

BL tends to swing between extremes is what I'm saying. The end of phase one could come after, say, 36 years and you could still merge DoF with DI fairly easily while retaining a setting with Primaris veterans/semi-veterans.

 

12 years is really green for Astartes who awakened from stasis after the Rift opened up. So it's just...why not pick a longer period that's still much shorter than 112 years? How is this optimal for minimising the effect of the retcon?

 

You’re putting to much stock in marines not being veterans within 12 years, they don’t need loads of time to become amazing warriors they already are, the Luna wolves took Luna about 5 years into the great crusade, the DA took out the thunder warriors on their first ever combat exercise, at 12 years they’re still humanity’s finest

 

It’s not about them breaking up because it’s over any more they’re breaking them up early so guiliman doesn’t look like he’s legion building and so they can reinforce a wider area of space faster

[Moonreaper666]

Can someone put up an updated list on all the various battles/wars post-Rift and their new dates/years? And other notable events?

 

Having a headache thinking which war is moved to which century. Thinking when does War of Secrets and Armageddon Saints fits into this

 

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if some Warp anomaly swallowed Gaunt's Ghost, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Yarrick, Samus, Madai and the Blood Pact and threw them into the post-Rift future

[b1soul]

This probably also affects Vigilus as well

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

This probably also affects Vigilus as well

 

It pretty much has to.

 

Although there's some flexibility in exactly how offset from Terran-time the Vigilius system is post-Rift, there's still a long chunk of time where Calgar is present there (from midway through the fourth year after the Rift opened all the way to the campaign's end over twenty years later). Yet, now he's supposedly in Ultramar fighting the Plague Wars at a time that Guy Haley definitely gave as twelve years into the Indomitus Crusade.

 

Either Vigilus has some very long years or some very short ones. Or there's another retcon imminent.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Lord Nord

[b1soul]

The more I think of it...Dark Imperium/Plague War was a misstep. Indomitus should have always been the main narrative thread after Gathering Storm. There was no need to gloss over early post-Rift events and skip 112 years into the future.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The more I think of it...Dark Imperium/Plague War was a misstep. Indomitus should have always been the main narrative thread after Gathering Storm. There was no need to gloss over early post-Rift events and skip 112 years into the future.

 

I've always figured the only reason they did that was to show that Primaris are very much a settled and accepted part of the universe and there was no danger of an "Order 66" situation occurring. It just seems like a corporate marketing decision to boost acceptance (and sales) of the new Primaris line rather than a storytelling one. Because it was really terrible from said storytelling perspective. It basically started off the new normal by stating "Yeah, there WAS this intense, galaxy-spanning crusade involving every faction imaginable in the most epic battles you could ever imagine, BUT that's over now and we're going to tell you the story of what happened afterward in a relatively small region of the galaxy."

Edited December 24, 2020 by Lord Nord