Dawn of Fire & Dark Imperium Timeline Change

[Jareddm]

The more I think of it...Dark Imperium/Plague War was a misstep. Indomitus should have always been the main narrative thread after Gathering Storm. There was no need to gloss over early post-Rift events and skip 112 years into the future.

I remember feeling that it was done to recreate a Horus Heresy feel, but one that they could set in M41.  Like, "here's your Great Crusade to do with whatever you want for backstory, but we're going to keep pushing in this direction if you want to follow along."  I'm sure this sounded like a good idea at the time.

[Lucerne]

Plague War should have been the crucible of the Primaris and Ultramar being lost to Morty to sell the idea that it's a desperate situation.

[firestorm40k]

If you're up for it, the best order would be:

 

1. Vaults of Terra Book 1 - The Carrion Throne

2. Watchers of the Throne Book 1 - The Emperor's Legion

< That Audio Drama that you can search for by the author's name >

3. Vaults of Terra Book 2 - The Hollow Mountain

4. Dawn of Fire Book 1 - Avenging Son

5. Watchers of the Throne Book 2 - The Regent's Shadow

 

 

Apologies for the threadromancy, but with the imminent re-release of DI and Plague War, I was wondering if anyone would recommend picking these up despite the Dawn of Fire series still not being complete?

 

Thanks to Lord Nord's suggested reading list, I've done the above books (via audio-books) and thoroughly enjoyed them, and have also recently finished Gate of Bones (which I feel is a better set up for the ongoing seriesaybe than Avenging Son - it had some good characters and sets up some interesting threads I look forward to seeing resolved).

 

Gate of Bones does seem to suggest that the Dawn of Fire series is going to be quite a long running series, which makes me wonder if I ought to wait before getting in to Guy Haley's DI trilogy.

 

Why does this matter? Well, I was out of the hobby between mid-2014 to late 2018,so missed the release of 8th and many details around the progression to the 'current' state of the setting (Imperium Nihilus etc). But going through Lord Nord's list above, I feel more up to speed and a bitore invested in the 'now' of 40k. However I dont want to jump in to the DI trilogy of it's going to make me unsure of where things are at and why (and also kind of spoil the fates of any characters from the Dawn of Fire series).

 

Am I over thinking this? Maybe. :lol: Any thoughts on this matter welcome! :)

Edited May 16, 2021 by firestorm40k

[DukeLeto69]

I believe the Dawn of Fire series will be nine books. That could change but that is what different sources have said.

[DukeLeto69]

The resurrection of this thread caused me to re-read every post and again raised something for me that I sort of addressed on page 2 (I think)...

 

Why don’t GW/BL make more use of the whole “the warp did it” excuse?

 

I know this started out as a bit of a joke to excuse problems in the lore and the loose cannon approach AND I know it could be seen as a somewhat Deus ex Machina but...

 

It actually is a THING in the setting. Time distortion has always been a thing but has not been explored much.

 

All this timeline mess with Indomitus, Plague Wars, Baal, Vigilus, Dante being everywhere etc etc could legitimately be explained by the warp and everything being doubly screwed up by the Great Rift.

 

All our real world head scratching could be amplified in setting.

 

The logistics would be damn near impossible to pull off and all manner of weirdness would ensue.

 

Imagine Imperial World ABC is under siege and a Crusade Fleet is despatched to save them.

 

On exiting the Warp the fleet has lost several ships.

 

On arrival at planet they find that the besieged defenders are the descendants of the lost ship(s) that had arrived at the planet 100 (more) years before!

 

Etc!

 

In the past the hand wave of “the warp did it” seemed lazy and annoying but if GW/BL truly embraced it, it would create some compelling, if head screwing, lore/stories!

Edited May 17, 2021 by DukeLeto69

[Angry Banana]

 

Apologies for the threadromancy, but with the imminent re-release of DI and Plague War, I was wondering if anyone would recommend picking these up despite the Dawn of Fire series still not being complete?

 

Thanks to Lord Nord's suggested reading list, I've done the above books (via audio-books) and thoroughly enjoyed them, and have also recently finished Gate of Bones (which I feel is a better set up for the ongoing seriesaybe than Avenging Son - it had some good characters and sets up some interesting threads I look forward to seeing resolved).

 

Gate of Bones does seem to suggest that the Dawn of Fire series is going to be quite a long running series, which makes me wonder if I ought to wait before getting in to Guy Haley's DI trilogy.

 

Why does this matter? Well, I was out of the hobby between mid-2014 to late 2018,so missed the release of 8th and many details around the progression to the 'current' state of the setting (Imperium Nihilus etc). But going through Lord Nord's list above, I feel more up to speed and a bitore invested in the 'now' of 40k. However I dont want to jump in to the DI trilogy of it's going to make me unsure of where things are at and why (and also kind of spoil the fates of any characters from the Dawn of Fire series).

 

Am I over thinking this? Maybe. Any thoughts on this matter welcome!

 

I'd certainly recommend the dawn of fire series.

 

I've read Dawn fo Fire, and am just starting Gate of Bones.

 

The writing is very good, and the characters are very well fleshed out.  It says a lot that in Dawn of Fire, amidst the most epic battlefleet gothic style space battle, all you can think about is that character form the previous chapter ok?.

 

If it's going to be nine novels and they're all as good as the first, then we're in for a great time.

 

In Dawn of fire Cawl introduces the Primaris for the first time, and the great thing about that moment is that the whole book is written so you're looking at a situation  through the perspective of one of those present.

 

It turned my thoughts of Primaris on its head, as in my ignorance, there was me thinking that they were existing heresy era marines that cawl had upgraded, rather than these giants that are little more than children who have been grown and had memories implanted - almost like replicants.

 

The Alpha Primus character who was also in "the great work" I'm convinced is Cawl's attempt at making his own primarch, and in Gate of Bones there is a brilliant insight into how the Custodes see the world and the return of Gulliman, again through the eyes of one of theirs.

 

They describe through the narrative just how far Terra has fallen during the last 10000 years and just how much of a fight Gulliman has not just against the forces of the imperium, but also against the highlords of Terra who in reality really don't want him there, and ideally want to keep him on a lead and have him dance to their tune.

 

I have to say, I'm getting quite wrapped up in it all.   

 

In game I wish this was conveyed more in respect of the fact that within DoF you do get the very real impression that the Primaris really do need the original Astartes to guide them - they are newborns in every sense of the word, and I'd love to see in game the mechanic that allows at least an HQ to be able to lead and give buffs to a Primaris unit to represent just how fresh off the boat they are.  Even in terms of physicality I don't understand why a land raider can't carry primaris say with the condition that they count as terminators for the purpose of squeezing in there.

 

But in a nutshell, yes, read Dawn of Fire, and if you like the imperial navy Battlefleets you're in for a treat as much of the book happens in orbit.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Angry Banana

[firestorm40k]

The Alpha Primus character who was also in "the great work"

 

Ahh, I'd forgotten this one - is that a recommendation, for anyone who is wanting to have details around the creation of the Primaris and the Indomitus Crusade fleshed out?

 

I may give the audiobook of that a listen, while I wait for the next Dawn of Fire novel :D

[Ishagu]

 

The Alpha Primus character who was also in "the great work"

 

Ahh, I'd forgotten this one - is that a recommendation, for anyone who is wanting to have details around the creation of the Primaris and the Indomitus Crusade fleshed out?

 

I may give the audiobook of that a listen, while I wait for the next Dawn of Fire novel :D

The Great Work is an incredible novel. One of the best 40k stories in years.

[Vanger]

The Great Work is an incredible novel. One of the best 40k stories in years.

 

I have to second that.

[N1SB]

Re: The Great Work

 

Ahh, I'd forgotten this one - is that a recommendation, for anyone who is wanting to have details around the creation of the Primaris and the Indomitus Crusade fleshed out?

 

 

The Great Work is the most detailed account around the creation of the Primaris.  By that, not only do we see what it was like for a specific Primaris, but broadly the creation of the Primaris process/technology/system.

 

I'll tell you an example, before I read this book I honestly asked, "So how did Belisarius Cawl manage to create the Primaris as the next-gen Space Marine when Fabius Bile has been doing this for 10,000 years and hadn't come close with his whole New Man plan?"  The novel directly addresses that specific question.

[Angry Banana]

Re: The Great Work

 

Ahh, I'd forgotten this one - is that a recommendation, for anyone who is wanting to have details around the creation of the Primaris and the Indomitus Crusade fleshed out?

 

 

The Great Work is the most detailed account around the creation of the Primaris.  By that, not only do we see what it was like for a specific Primaris, but broadly the creation of the Primaris process/technology/system.

 

I'll tell you an example, before I read this book I honestly asked, "So how did Belisarius Cawl manage to create the Primaris as the next-gen Space Marine when Fabius Bile has been doing this for 10,000 years and hadn't come close with his whole New Man plan?"  The novel directly addresses that specific question.

 

Yes indeed.  It also really highlights how much of  a loose cannon Cawl is and how liberal his interpretation of behaving is.

Together with the insight into pre heresy Belesarius its a great read, and does leave you wondering... Who is he?

 

I'd go as far as saying that Alpha Primus is very much the tragic figure, fundamentally asking why was I created, and was my creating worth all the pain and suffering to get to that point - by which he's referring to all the failed experiments to get to him being Cawl's first success.  His part in Dawn of Fire is one of the bystander, asking the marine veteran who has been through the heresy to be mindful of cawl as none of the imperium really truly know him.

All this while the veteran is questioning whether the time of the Astartes is at an end, whilst watching their grand unveiling by Cawl.

 

The narrative weaves a persona around cawl that has you believing and imagining him to be 40k's Tony Stark in his attitude and demeanour, love of himself, and utter belief in his own brilliance and ability.

 

Like you, I asked the same question, and you come to realise that the answer is even better than what you expected, as I say, I thought the Primaris were full fat Astartes that Gulliman had given to cawl for upgrading, the reveals in Great Work and Dawn of Fire totally changed my perspective on them.

[Noserenda]

I think the Fabius Bile books do an excellent job of showing why his projects dont work out too :) 

More on topic, the Great work is superb, Dawn of fire is good and Dark Imperium i loved though it has janky bits :D 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

The Alpha Primus character who was also in "the great work"

Ahh, I'd forgotten this one - is that a recommendation, for anyone who is wanting to have details around the creation of the Primaris and the Indomitus Crusade fleshed out?

 

I may give the audiobook of that a listen, while I wait for the next Dawn of Fire novel

 

 

It is a great book, particularly helping with some insights into why Cawl is the way he is...

 

The only thing to keep in mind in your case is that it actually takes place after the Dark Imperium trilogy. But as it has a much more restricted cast than the DI books, it really only spoils one character's storyline (and that spoiler - aside from the fact that the character survives - is for something that happens about 3/4 of the way through book 1 one of the first DI book).

 

Also I'd go ahead and read "To Speak As One" right before The Great Work.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Lord Nord

[firestorm40k]

I'd go ahead and read "To Speak As One" right before The Great Work.

Thank you! Where do I find that? There doesn't seem to be an audiobook, annoyingly...

Edited May 17, 2021 by firestorm40k

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

I'd go ahead and read "To Speak As One" right before The Great Work.

Thank you! Where do I find that? There doesn't seem to be an audiobook, annoyingly...

 

 

It's a short story, but it should be part of the "Nexus and Other Stories" audiobook. The stated running time for that audio is way too long for it to just be the "Nexus" novella.

[firestorm40k]

Thank you! I'll look it up :)

[deathspectersgt7]

Damn I have to buy more novels . But really interested in the Great Work .Since I went full Primaris .

[Jareddm]

Off-topic but The Great Work is also a direct sequel to the Scythes of the Emperor anthology from a few years back.

[Redrandy93]

I felt they should have just moved the timeline back 40 to 50 year.

 

Guys my head is spinning as I see I have read a few books out of order.    Oh well..........  

 

I have also finished reading both Calgar UM books and Blood Angels ones.    Was going to start  Mephiston Revenant Crusade next.    I have about 20 other books to read.       I have a  decision to make this weekend.