Tactica: DA Successor Chapters

[Syphid]

Greetings brothers,

 

I wanted to start a discussion inspired by the Goonhammer article, "The Outer Circle" where the author uses Whirlwind of Rage and Warded successor tactics instead of the regular DA Chapter Tactics.

 

Currently if you play a Dark Angels Successor Chapter (such as Angels of Absolution, etc) you must take the Inheritors of the Primarch successor chapter tactic in order for your Deathwing and Ravenwing units to take advantage of the red-hot Inner Circle and Jink rules. You lose access to DA named characters and relics (without the use of a strategem) and don't gain much else.

 

My question to you is - are there any combinations of successor tactics that could be worth trading Inner Circle and Jink for? Are there any DA Successor combinations that would be fun or interesting to play, other an "Dark Angels without Characters and Relics"?

 

My first thoughts are

 

Rapid Assault and Hungry for Battle. Adding 1" to Advance and not suffering -1 to hit on assault weapons could beef up units like plasma Intercessors, Black Knights, and Hellblasters if Weapons of the Dark Age returns. A mobile Chapter Master with Brilliant Strategist could consistently provide re-rolls and +3" from Devastator Doctrine to traditionally short ranged assault weapons (melta too - Eradicators?), increasing mobility to your army.

 

Hungry for Battle and Whirlwind of Rage. Your Deathwing and Ravenwing units might not be as survivable as they used to, but they will be more dangerous on the turn they charge. This increases the chances of a successful charge after deep striking, and synergizes with Shock Assault.

 

Unforgiven HQ detachment! Belial and Sammael's rules affect Deathwing and Ravenwing units, so you could take one as an Auxiliary Detachment to provide some re-rolls to your specialist units.

 

Any other thoughts? Acknowledging this isn't a super competitive discussion - have you had any experience with DA Successor Tactics, or are the regular DA rules just too good to pass up?

 

(PS - two years, two address changes, and a baby later - I will finally be updating my Angels of Absolution soon...)

Edited December 6, 2020 by Syphid

[WrathOfTheLion]

Not certain, but I think that it isn't definitive is part of why those rules are not 'broken'. We have to weight those rules against the combinations of available successor tactics.

[Berzul]

Please, anyone can clarify this:

 

If you do NOT take Inheritors of the Primarch, can you use Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, and other Dark Angel Unique Units?

 

I was alwats under the impression that, by playing a custom successor, you could only use basic codex units.

 

Is this right?

 

If so, is ANY combination of traits worth it?

[Cleanse And Purify]

If anyone gives you :cuss for using Dark Angels rules with your successor chapter, find a new gaming group. Is this a problem people run into? I can't imagine anyone ever pressing this issue.

[Gederas]

Please, anyone can clarify this:

 

If you do NOT take Inheritors of the Primarch, can you use Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, and other Dark Angel Unique Units?

 

I was alwats under the impression that, by playing a custom successor, you could only use basic codex units.

 

Is this right?

 

If so, is ANY combination of traits worth it?

Blood Angels successors don't lose Sanguinary Guard/Death Company.

 

Successors get access to ALL units their Parent Chapter uses. With Dark Angels, they just don't get Jink/Inner Circle

[Syphid]

Please, anyone can clarify this:

 

If you do NOT take Inheritors of the Primarch, can you use Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Black Knights, and other Dark Angel Unique Units?

 

I was alwats under the impression that, by playing a custom successor, you could only use basic codex units.

 

Is this right?

 

If so, is ANY combination of traits worth it?

If you are a DA Successor you still get access to all Ravenwing and Deathwing unit and the super doctrine (+6"/+3" range in Dev doctrine). What you don't get are the named characters (Azrael, etc), Inner Circle and Jink, and the regular DA morale/+1 to hit Tactic, unless you take Inheritors of the Primarch.

[Syphid]

If anyone gives you :cuss for using Dark Angels rules with your successor chapter, find a new gaming group. Is this a problem people run into? I can't imagine anyone ever pressing this issue.

Yeah, I get the sportsmanship aspect of it... But when the Dark Angels FAQ explicitly states Angels of Absolution as an example of a successor chapter, and my army is covered in Angels of Absolution iconography and banners that say ANGELS OF ABSOLUTION I feel like it might be in the spirit of the game to follow a more strict interpretation of the rules :D

[Cleanse And Purify]

I guess? It just seems like a ridiculous penalty for a paint scheme. Kind of the antithesis of a miniature games spirit. Edited December 7, 2020 by Cleanse And Purify

[WrathOfTheLion]

From what I have read, you have access to all of those units regardless of tactic.

 

But you need to have Inheritors of the Primarch to get Jink and Inner Circle. Hence why they're more powerful than before, they need to be more powerful than picking random successor tactics with the units available.

[Berzul]

Well, that actually makes the Successor Tactics much better. I am pretty sure it USED to be this way, though. Wasn't it?

 

In 8th edition, I mean.

 

Wasn't it that you HAD to play a vanilla army from the core codex to use these tactics? And, as such, you locked out of using the Dark Angels units.

 

I am glad it is not the case. Makes me rethink about making a true successor out of my successor chapter.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Way I see it, Successors don't need to take Inheritors of the Primarch unless we're running heavy numbers of DeathRaven. If you are running primarily Battle Company then you may as well pick traits that play to your strengths.

[CCE1981]

Other than loosing additional benefits from Inner Circle and Jink.

 

I think Dark Angels can make some incredible use out of Fearsome Aspect. The Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplains are crazy for that build. An Interrogator Chaplain can destroy units all on his own give him Fear Made Manifest as a Warlord trait and the Angel’s Ambit Relic and anything within 9” of him is counts as -2 ld, count as having taken. Anything that doesn’t ignore attrition just needs to be tagged to lose 50% of their unit.

[Syphid]

Now that the codex is out, are there any more thoughts?

 

I'm finding it really hard to justify giving up permanent transhuman on BGVs, terminators, Chapter Master, etc for any combination of successor tactics.

 

Hungry for Battle and Rapid Assault have some appeal... Hungry for Battle stacks with the Decisive Tactician WT for +2" to advance and charge, and assault weapons like flamers have more utility now with Fire Discipline. Rapid Assault interacts with Speed of the Raven to let you advance in turn 1 and fire Ravenwing multimeltas with no penalty to hit. A land speeder could move 48" to 53" on turn 1 and still fire MM with no penalty to hit.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't have the book yet, but from what I've seen, I would agree. It's incredibly incentivized to adhere to the Dark Angels way of fighting.

 

I don't see a problem with this though. The Dark Angels successors are essentially organized still as the first legion, this is done intentionally. Lorewise, the successor chapters should mostly operate and fight exactly how the Dark Angels chapter does.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I'm at this point that I played DA codex for so long that just thinking of having to pick rules for my sucessor gives me anxiety.

So for simplicity sake I'll just keep on using the main rules.

[Iron Lord]

 

I don't see a problem with this though. The Dark Angels successors are essentially organized still as the first legion, this is done intentionally. Lorewise, the successor chapters should mostly operate and fight exactly how the Dark Angels chapter does.

Yup. Star Phantoms, assuming they are indeed a Dark Angels successor as rumoured, would be one of the few exceptions.

[Azrael9091]

It needs to be clarified in a FAQ, but I don't think that picking a successor will make you lose the inner circle and all the deathwing/ravenwing bonus. I mean the successors chapter are unforgiven too.

 

Personally I really see the appeal of a combo hungry for battle(or tactical withdrawal)/whirlwing of rage with deathwing unit, the ability to generate more attack and either have easier charge or retreat charge is just too good with those units

[UtariOnzo]

The rules are crystal clear actually. If you pick dark angels, you het inner circle and jink effects. If you pick a successor of the Lion and Inheritors of the Primarch, you get inner circle and jink. If you pick successor of the Lion and choose custom traits, you lose inner circle and jink.

 

All DA successors regardless if they get jink/inner circle get access to the datasheets (except named characters)

[WrathOfTheLion]

I see no need for an FAQ there, the interaction is clear.

 

Jink and Inner Circle have a clause for successor tactics, Space Wolves have some abilities that work exactly the same.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I plan to do things a little differently. If I am playing primarily Battle Company I'll be using successor traits (Fearsom Aspect and Expert Marksmen for my Angels of Shadow), but when I have a large Ravenwing/Deathwing presence I'll be using Inheritors of the Primarch as those Companies function identically to the actual DeathRaven Companies.

[Berzul]

I plan to do things a little differently. If I am playing primarily Battle Company I'll be using successor traits (Fearsom Aspect and Expert Marksmen for my Angels of Shadow), but when I have a large Ravenwing/Deathwing presence I'll be using Inheritors of the Primarch as those Companies function identically to the actual DeathRaven Companies.

 

 Could you bring them in detachments that have different successor traits?

 

Such as maybe a patrol of Greenwing with successor traits, and a vanguard of Deathwing or an outrider of Ravenwing, who have Inheritors of the Primarch?

[Cpt_Reaper]

Lemme crunch the numbers, so to speak. I don't know if that's a legal move, but if it is...minty fresh,

[CCE1981]

 

 

I plan to do things a little differently. If I am playing primarily Battle Company I'll be using successor traits (Fearsom Aspect and Expert Marksmen for my Angels of Shadow), but when I have a large Ravenwing/Deathwing presence I'll be using Inheritors of the Primarch as those Companies function identically to the actual DeathRaven Companies.

Could you bring them in detachments that have different successor traits?

 

Such as maybe a patrol of Greenwing with successor traits, and a vanguard of Deathwing or an outrider of Ravenwing, who have Inheritors of the Primarch?

You can but you would count as two different Chapters:

Chapter (successor traits a, b )

Chapter (Inheritors of the Primarch)

Edited February 18, 2021 by CCE1981

[Berzul]

 

 

I plan to do things a little differently. If I am playing primarily Battle Company I'll be using successor traits (Fearsom Aspect and Expert Marksmen for my Angels of Shadow), but when I have a large Ravenwing/Deathwing presence I'll be using Inheritors of the Primarch as those Companies function identically to the actual DeathRaven Companies.

Could you bring them in detachments that have different successor traits?

 

Such as maybe a patrol of Greenwing with successor traits, and a vanguard of Deathwing or an outrider of Ravenwing, who have Inheritors of the Primarch?

You can but you would count as two different Chapters:

Chapter (successor traits a, b )

Chapter (Inheritors of the Primarch)

 

 

 

That is actually pretty good, since, unless you are running a very static and large-modes-per-unit army, the tactics for the Greenwing are not something you'd miss much. There are definetly better combinations around. But the tactics for Ravenwing and Deathwing are GOLD, so you'd never want to trade those off.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think you lose the super doctrines if you do that, I can't remember how that works. It may be worth it still though.