Shaezus' 3rd Company 9th Ed reports - game vs new DG

[Karhedron]

Yup, the Biker Chaplain does look like a tremendous utility unit. It is a shame that he has a fixed loadout but it is a pretty good loadout at least. The Deathmask relic providing both the -1 to-Hit for protection and ObjSec shenanigans does look pretty fun. It looks to me like you want to try and keep this guy alive into the late game to get the most mileage out of him.

 

Choosing HQs is pretty hard as the Sanguinary Priest is so good if you are running any kind of melee-orientated list. The Captain is a must if you are running Plasmaceptors in my (limited) experience. The Biker Chaplain is just great and the Librarian provides important support and psychic protection.

 

Battalion or dual Patrol? It is a tough challenge with never enough points....

[Shaezus]

There's always a want for just another 200 points or so. Things feel much more compact now, but somehow not restricted. It amazes me how my army has about 50 models in it when it feels much tighter.

 

The librarian is really there for psychic ritual. Against armies without a deny, it's always an easy 15VP. Especially along with oaths of moment. Against armies with a deny on psychic powers, he still brings his own deny and MW output. Very useful against elite armies like custodes.

 

The Sanguinor is kind of replaced by the chapter champion. The sad thing is without him I wouldn't use any unique BA strats. UWoF and descent of angels don't see use these days. Against armies with the kind of big, killer models that BA don't have, Angel's Sacrifice is a brilliant counter.

[Shaezus]

Yep second the Assault terminators with storm shields Ran a squad yesterday. They are resolute in the face of anything, except mortal wounds.  Mass low AP bounces off them.  I am sold on them for mid board control and scoring.  Stick a Sang priest with them and they will always be there.

 

Couldn't agree more. They're so good in the holding role that I'm fitting another squad into the list.

 

4++ is effectively the same as 6+ for me. Averages kind of go out the window with a D6, and honestly I usually fail whole bunches of 4++ saves every game.

 

Having a 2+ and 3+ against AP3 when in cover...on a 3W model, it makes all the difference.

[Drunken Angel]

 

Yep second the Assault terminators with storm shields Ran a squad yesterday. They are resolute in the face of anything, except mortal wounds.  Mass low AP bounces off them.  I am sold on them for mid board control and scoring.  Stick a Sang priest with them and they will always be there.

Couldn't agree more. They're so good in the holding role that I'm fitting another squad into the list.

 

4++ is effectively the same as 6+ for me. Averages kind of go out the window with a D6, and honestly I usually fail whole bunches of 4++ saves every game.

 

Having a 2+ and 3+ against AP3 when in cover...on a 3W model, it makes all the difference.

 

Yes the extra Squad will do you well, especially being able to DS or reposition them during the game. I have something like 20-30 terminators but  Im going to run 3 Gravcents with the  Terminator Assault Squad in mid board.  I feel the Sang priest with JP will really prove his worth amongst them.  Late game as the firepower on the board is reduced I can reposition the Terminators and Priest  if needed and leave the Gravcents mid board.  30" Shooting from the Gravcents may be better than a second terminator squad.    

[Karhedron]

UWoF and descent of angels don't see use these days.

Descent of Angels is great on a big unit of Plasmaceptors. Remember the +1 to-Hit is on all attacks, not just melee. Plasma guns hitting on 2s (and potentially rerolling 1s with a Captain nearby) is a lot of hits.

[YogiDaAngel]

 

 

Yep second the Assault terminators with storm shields Ran a squad yesterday. They are resolute in the face of anything, except mortal wounds.  Mass low AP bounces off them.  I am sold on them for mid board control and scoring.  Stick a Sang priest with them and they will always be there.

Couldn't agree more. They're so good in the holding role that I'm fitting another squad into the list.

 

4++ is effectively the same as 6+ for me. Averages kind of go out the window with a D6, and honestly I usually fail whole bunches of 4++ saves every game.

 

Having a 2+ and 3+ against AP3 when in cover...on a 3W model, it makes all the difference.

 

Yes the extra Squad will do you well, especially being able to DS or reposition them during the game. I have something like 20-30 terminators but  Im going to run 3 Gravcents with the  Terminator Assault Squad in mid board.  I feel the Sang priest with JP will really prove his worth amongst them.  Late game as the firepower on the board is reduced I can reposition the Terminators and Priest  if needed and leave the Gravcents mid board.  30" Shooting from the Gravcents may be better than a second terminator squad.    

 

I really want to know how dev cents worked for you. I'm torn on a lot of choices for ranged support for my smashy guys.

[Shaezus]

 

UWoF and descent of angels don't see use these days.

Descent of Angels is great on a big unit of Plasmaceptors. Remember the +1 to-Hit is on all attacks, not just melee. Plasma guns hitting on 2s (and potentially rerolling 1s with a Captain nearby) is a lot of hits. :)

Do you not miss their firepower T1 when you deepstrike them?

 

I really don't play against strong shooty armies very often. Maybe then I'd DS some stuff

[Karhedron]

 

Descent of Angels is great on a big unit of Plasmaceptors. Remember the +1 to-Hit is on all attacks, not just melee. Plasma guns hitting on 2s (and potentially rerolling 1s with a Captain nearby) is a lot of hits.

Do you not miss their firepower T1 when you deepstrike them?

 

I really don't play against strong shooty armies very often. Maybe then I'd DS some stuff

 

It very much depends on who I am facing. I do normally deploy them on the table. As you say, it is a lot of firepower to miss out on T1 otherwise. But there have been some games where dropping them in has worked well (Tau spring to mind).

[Shaezus]

 

 

 

Yep second the Assault terminators with storm shields Ran a squad yesterday. They are resolute in the face of anything, except mortal wounds. Mass low AP bounces off them. I am sold on them for mid board control and scoring. Stick a Sang priest with them and they will always be there.

Couldn't agree more. They're so good in the holding role that I'm fitting another squad into the list.

 

4++ is effectively the same as 6+ for me. Averages kind of go out the window with a D6, and honestly I usually fail whole bunches of 4++ saves every game.

 

Having a 2+ and 3+ against AP3 when in cover...on a 3W model, it makes all the difference.

Yes the extra Squad will do you well, especially being able to DS or reposition them during the game. I have something like 20-30 terminators but Im going to run 3 Gravcents with the Terminator Assault Squad in mid board. I feel the Sang priest with JP will really prove his worth amongst them. Late game as the firepower on the board is reduced I can reposition the Terminators and Priest if needed and leave the Gravcents mid board. 30" Shooting from the Gravcents may be better than a second terminator squad.

The centurions are an interesting option. I considered them, but despite T5 the extra points for fewer models and no storm shield / invul puts me off. For all - out holding power, SS terminators clinch it. Other units can sit away from objectives and do the shooting.

[Shaezus]

Hey folks.

 

Got a game in yesterday against Grey Knights, my first game against them since 6th ed! My friend had been bemoaning their weakness for ages and whilst I agreed they really need a simple update, I wasn't convinced they were weak.

 

Still, this was kind of a fun day out for me and I wanted to try out something new with my list and just enjoy the game. Outside of RTT and mini RTT events it seems I never play the exact same list twice in a row. Refinement or trial by error? Let's just say I tend to learn most from what went wrong (yeah I played like a plonker lol)

 

I tried a dual patrol this time. Dropping a unit of infiltrators to make way for a gravis captain, for tanky suppport with Angel's wing. Whittled the sanguard down to 5 and took 8 assault terminators

 

mission: vital intelligence

final score 58 - 56 to GK

 

BA primaries 30

oaths of moment 11

vital intelligence 8

banners 7

 

GK primaries 30

WWSWF 15

mental interrogation 8

engage on all fronts 5

 

My list

 

starting CP....4....

 

patrol detachment

 

phobos librarian. mind raid. shrouding. reliquary of gathalmor

sanguinary priest. chief apothecary. selfless healer

 

infiltrators. helix

 

company champion

5 x sanguard. fists

 

patrol detachment

 

captain. gravis armour. gift of foresight. soulwarden. armour indomitus.

primaris chaplain. bike. rites of war. visage of death

 

infiltrators. helix

 

5 x BGV. quake bolts

8 x assault terminators THSS

 

3 x ATV multimelta

3 x plasma inceptors

 

whirlwind

 

his list:

 

2 x dreadknights? 1 of them chapter master

terminator chaplain

terminator apothecary

 

2 x strike squads

 

2 x 5 terminators

2 x 5 paladins

1 x 10 paladins

 

psychic powers and other stuff included gate of infinity, something for boosting psy weapons and turning storm bolters into psy weapons and other stuff I can't remember

 

The Flow of Battle

 

With this being hold 2 / hold 3 I thought I should focus on one flank and refuse the other. I then went over - cautious in deployment and ended up with the ATVS and plasmaceptors going left whilst the BGV and termies went centre and right of centre. In hindsight his shooting threat wasn't that great so I should have stuck to the plan.Infiltrators went obscured on the objectives on both flanks. He put the big paladin squad in reserve with the chapter master and apothecary.

 

I went first and advanced into the centre with the BGV, the termies moving onto the objective to their right with the sanguard tucked in behind them. I toed the ATVs onto the left - centre objective and used the chaplain to perform data intercept on my DZ, hoping to get the max points for that T1. The company champion and infiltrators did banners.

 

In his turn 1 he used gate of infinity and make a clean 9" charge with his paladins into the ATVs. Despite me popping THP they all died in one round.

 

Next turn I moved the BGV over to the left and they wiped that paladin squad. The captain and sanguard moved up the centre and wiped a terminator squad, but my terminators failed their 8" charge and failed the reroll, leaving a squad of strikes and the other small paladin squad free. I had opted to use suppression fire on the squad targeted by the BGV, and the lesson here was that I should have used it on the squad opposite the termies, as the termies had a longer charge and were more likely to fail it and thus be vulnerable to a charge next turn.

 

Well that's what happened. In turn two he did some CP combo on psy weapons and the big paladin squad was horrendous, putting out 40 shots at BS2 rerolling 1s wounding on 3s AP 3 D2, so slaughtering the sanguard and chipping some off the termies.

 

He charged the termies with the two squads they had tried to charge and rubbed salt in the wound with a 12" charge over difficult terrain by the dread knight. Maximum salt was added when the newly - arrived 10 man paladin squad made an 11" charge into my captain. The chapter master wiped the BGV with a 9" charge and by end of T2 it was looking suddenly grim. That old story of a glorious charge foundering in the mud and being utterly crushed.

 

After that it was hustle with what I had. I tried to deny him 5 VP by killing the dread knight but could only take it down to 2 wounds. Might have been a different story but he gated the big paladin squad and they forced the perfect amount of unsaved wounds on the whirlwind just to kill it.

 

By end of T5 I had a couple of guys alive on the top left objective and that was it.

 

What worked

 

Reliquary of Gathalmor - for 1CP this has definitely earned its place in a TAC list. It won't make a difference against non psyker armies but boy oh boy does it hurt psyker armies. GK maybe affected worst by it with every unit being psykers. In turn 3 the opponent failed his first few tests and having already lost a couple of strikes and a handful of wounds off the dread knight, he decided it wasn't worth trying any more powers. So this relic did totally and completely shut down his whole psychic phase. An absolute gem.

 

Rites of war - visage of death - again made a VP swing, this time only 5 points but in hold 2 / hold 3 missions that is a big thing.

 

Blood chalice - with quake bolts hitting, the BGV were unstoppable. the opponent popped a -1 to wound roll strat, but with this combo in place it made no difference. Brutal.

 

what whiffed

 

red thirst - not the BA rule, but my own. my generalship sucked this game and my original plan to refuse a flank and let the opponent come to me vanished in a red haze. Maybe I should paint my models blue lol. At least I proved that the ATVs, durable as they are, should not be used for T1 advance directly towards a melee specialist unit...

 

dual patrol - Yep. If I'd had just 2 CP at the end of T2, the termies would have wrecked the other units attacking them and it would be a different story. I also sorely missed the third troop unit, for screening out the centre and performing actions whilst the other two were out on the flanks.

 

The captain didn't get to do anything and died to a strong melee unit who got an incredibly lucky charge. But the weakness of this list was highlighted and I think I'll drop the captain and stick to a battalion in future.

 

Any thoughts questions and suggestions most welcome as always!

Edited February 6, 2021 by Shaezus

[Majkhel]

Oh my, 4CP!   That takes us back to 8th edition  I'd say that if you're ending up with that little CP, you should have taken the Callidus to even it out just a bit.
And boy, some lucky charges there. 
I agree with your assessment of the game and how it went. Definitely Infiltrators were needed for screening, and ATVs should have been protected just a bit more T1.
Reliquary was brutal indeed. 

As a side note, unless my math is totally on another planet, I count a 58-58 tie result from the numbers you've provided.

[Xenith]

mission: vital intelligence

final score 58 - 56 to GK

 

BA primaries 30

oaths of moment 11

vital intelligence 8

banners 9

 

GK primaries 30

WWSWF 15

mental interrogation 8

engage on all fronts 5

 

 

Both of those scores add up to 58, making it a draw - were there any mistakes in the secondary points? Otherwise, fully painted get the extra 10 and wins 

 

Tough match. I think some players just like to complain, and would do even if their faction won every tournament. 9th seems to favour units that can do a bit of everything, moving, shooting, assault, and GK's have this in spades.

 

Maybe consider tenebrous curse on the phobos libby? Doesnt generate the CP, but the movement penalty could be big in a game. 

[Shaezus]

 

 

mission: vital intelligence

final score 58 - 56 to GK

 

BA primaries 30

oaths of moment 11

vital intelligence 8

banners 9

 

GK primaries 30

WWSWF 15

mental interrogation 8

engage on all fronts 5

 

Both of those scores add up to 58, making it a draw - were there any mistakes in the secondary points? Otherwise, fully painted get the extra 10 and wins

 

Tough match. I think some players just like to complain, and would do even if their faction won every tournament. 9th seems to favour units that can do a bit of everything, moving, shooting, assault, and GK's have this in spades.

 

Maybe consider tenebrous curse on the phobos libby? Doesnt generate the CP, but the movement penalty could be big in a game.

Whoops. Corrected, it was only 7 for banners.

 

Really the only thing they're lacking is the extra wound and unique secondaries. Otherwise they seem solid all round, as you say. I've been thinking about starting a second army and it looks like it will be GK.

 

Tenebrous curse almost made it in ahead of shrouding. If I'd actually researched GK and known about gate of infinity, it would have been first choice. Two of his squads had GoI so shoot up one and target the other with tenebrous and they won't be charging anything.

 

TC is gonna be so useful against DA terminator blobs but less so against DG and custodes flying stuff, which are popular in the meta here.

 

I've promoted the phobos to chief libby. Mind raid and TC, but can't decide on shrouding or hallucination for the third power.

 

Got a game against Admech on Monday. Going to try a little DC bomb for some potential FF, and a terminator squad. Multimelta eradicators instead of ATVs. Keeping the captain, intending to use him for his rerolls and potential Angel's Wing, then by turn 4 have him on a deep objective with the rites of war - visage of death combo. So it's looking like this so far:

 

Blood Angels battalion 2000 points

6 CP

 

Captain. Gravis armour. Soul warden. Rites of war. Visage of death. 115

Phobos librarian. Chief librarian. Psychic mastery. Smite. Mind raid. Tenebrous curse. hallucination. Reliquary of Gathalmor. 125

Sanguinary priest. Chief apothecary. Selfless healer. Teeth of Terra. 105

 

Infiltrators. Helix. 130

Infiltrators. Helix. 130

Assault intercessors 95

 

5 x death company. Jump packs. Bolt pistols. 3 x fist. 2 x astartes chainsword 145

5 x bladeguard veterans. Sgt quake bolts 175

8 x assault terminators 7 THSS 1 LC 334

5 x terminators. Power fists. Storm bolters. 190

 

3 x plasma inceptors 165

 

3 x eradicators. Multimelta 165

Whirlwind. 125

Edited February 6, 2021 by Shaezus

[Shaezus]

Hey folks. After a game against DG last week and another two today, finally got some time to write and share the misery lol

 

My regular opponent is a long time DG player who is very, very good at putting together optimal lists. He’s been using three variants built around this core:

 

2 x 20 poxwalkers

10 possessed

2 x plagueburst crawlers

2 x drones. Fleshmowers

Malignant plaguecaster

Foul blightspawn

Biologus putrifier

5 plaguemarines. 1 or 2 flails

 

Then the following options

 

1 – mortarion. The inexorables

2 – extra 20 poxwalkers. Extra drone with ranged weapons. 5 deathshroud. Lord of virulence. Mortarions chosen sons

3 – similar to 2 but lord of contagion and two small units of deathshroud instead of lord of virulence and 5 deathshroud

 

The first game I used the same or similar list as before. Then today I dropped the sang priest and ran a DC smash cap with a jump pack chapter master and phobos librarian as HQs.

3 squads of infiltrators all with helix

5 BGV

5 THSS termies

3 ATVs multimelta

3 plasma inceptors

3 eradicators

Whirlwind

3 eliminators

 

Now as tough as those terminators and BGV are, I had a bad feeling about it and it just did not feel right. Did not feel like a BA list.

 

I’m now reneging on my previous conviction that tailoring to DG would be a trap; in the next tourny here there will be at least 3 DG players and I expect at least one of them to be in the top 2 placements. So unless I settle for aiming for a top 4 at best, I need to be able to beat the new DG above all else.

 

Not going to delve into detail unless anyone has questions, I’ll just say that I’ve been outgunned, outfought in melee and yes, even outmanoeuvred. Every time. Sure it didn’t help that my opponent got first turn every time, but that doesn’t describe how strong DG really are.

 

The synergies and individual unit power of DG way outclasses anything BA can field. DG have a primarch on the cover of their dex, we have an assault intercessor sergeant. That kind of sums up the power difference IMO. Honestly after the DA and DG dexes and with DE coming up, it already feels like BA are second tier.

 

Getting my head down to figure out what to do. I’m sure there must be a way other than using vanvets.

[BrotherAetherick]

Unfortunately I see it the same way. The DG book has so many hard counters, it feels unwinnable in certain missions, especially the ones with middle objectives where they can sit there and take us off oaths of moments if we don't go second. 

 

PBCs with entropies delete any fire support we may bring, blightspawn with a 12 inch no charge aura is a no go zone as we lose our chapter tactic, savage echoes, and shock assault. If our melee elements that don't have transhuman bounce off deathshroud, they just get picked up on the swing back (if we even get to fight first!)

 

The more and more I tech into things like attack bikes or more vanguard vets, the more I struggle to justify using the Blood Angels codex instead of Red white scars or the new ravenwing.

[Shaezus]

You've nailed it there. So many hard counters it seems they have an answer to everything. The blightspawn no charge aura hurts BA more than most; no extra attacks from shock assault or black rage, no +1 to wound and they get to attack before you.

 

Added to that power / stratagem which reduces S and A by 1 and suddenly fist sanguard are hitting at S6 with 2 attacks on the charge, no bonus to wound and effectively fighting last. What more could they possibly lose.

 

Zombies doing their zombie thing and using regeneration to gain ground and grab objectives

 

Combined -1 T from contagion with bonus to DG strength means most things wounding on 2s in assault

 

Arch contaminator still the most powerful WT in the game I reckon

 

DG moving faster over difficult terrain than any other faction (barring fly units). This one is just silly.

 

Cloud of flies even stronger now being activated at the start of our shooting phase

 

1 CP stratagem for -2 to opponent's charge roll

 

halved movement within contagion range

 

turn off auras and rerolls

 

...besides all this, the new disgusting resilient seems irrelevant

 

Totally agree that BA are hard to justify now. Whilst I enjoy the fluffiness and real DG feel of their new dex, it's just too much for us.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Shaezus

[keeblerartillery]

Only thing I will say is that SG are base 3 attacks. Don’t short change yourself!

[DistractionTacMarine]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure your friend’s list is illegal. Do Possessed count towards the limit of poxwalker units you can bring? I thought it was just PM, Blightlords, and Deathshroud

[BrotherAetherick]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure your friend’s list is illegal. Do Possessed count towards the limit of poxwalker units you can bring? I thought it was just PM, Blightlords, and Deathshroud

 

Possessed count as they have the BUBONIC ASTARTES CORE INFANTRY keywords.

Edited February 18, 2021 by BrotherAetherick

[Shaezus]

Only thing I will say is that SG are base 3 attacks. Don’t short change yourself!

Gift of contagion psychic power is -1S -1A

 

Revolting stench vats relic causes charging units to count as not having charged. So no bonus attack no bonus to wound and removed from the charging queue.

 

It's the perfect anti BA combo

[Karhedron]

Maybe invest in a couple of squads of Eliminators to try and snipe crucial buffing Characters?

[Tokugawa]

Only <Ferrymen> company could have 12" blightspawn aura. So maybe not every DG player you encountered have that. And comparing with other things in DG book, Blightspawn himself is (relatively) very squishy. You may make use of that.

[Shaezus]

Eliminators are great but easily countered. They can't ignore the deathshroud bodyguard rule. Otherwise the blightspawn is just kept out of LoS for the first turn or two, which is all that matters.

 

Invul saves made all the difference in the last two games so maybe a null zone libby is the way forward

[DistractionTacMarine]

Null Zone Libby I think is crucial against DG with their proliferation of 4++

[Majkhel]

How would you see an Assassin instead of Eliminators? Eversor or Culexus is always nice.