Popularity?

[INKS]

Much of this might be my mind being stuck in 3rd edition but the Dark Eldar (I don't care what GW calls them now) have always seemed to get the short end of the stick when it comes to models, codex's and so on. They don't seem to be very popular? When looking at content from random 40k players you tend to see a smattering of other armies but not DE for whatever reason. 

 

Why do you think this is? Am I way off base?

[ThePenitentOne]

I'm a poor judge of popularity, so I'm not sure.

 

I've visited the Dark City website a few times, but not recently; I'm not sure how active it is. But it's a pure DE site. I went looking for Ideas for Commorragh terrain.

 

We did get a spot in the Dawn of War games, but they are fairly old now. The upcoming DE vs Sisters box could have an interesting impact upon how many DE armies you see- ditto for the dex. Interesting to me that the box was a shout out to that DoW game, because it too was DE vs Sisters.

 

It may also be because we have a glass cannon army with a pretty high skill threshold. We talk about having lost characters, and certainly we have, but truth be told we never had models for many of the characters we've lost. Sliscuss, Malys, Kheradruakh, Sathonyx... None of them had models. Maybe if they had, we would have been further ahead.

[WarriorFish]

Only GW can know the popularity of an army, the rest of us will have to make do with vaguely informed guesses After getting a huge boost with the great new (or not so new now) model range I think DE have as a faction probably rested there with player drop off and gain not making much difference. Models are likely the most important factor but so are rules, I think DE have struggled here which doesn't help.

 

Losing characters is not great but I think that impacts established players more than newer ones, DE being a bit harder to play is possibly the biggest factor. A new player could be put off by this not to mention the effective split into three armies inside the codex...

 

Nor should we forget that the online hobby is only a small subset of the hobby - even if you factored in all the online communities there'd be many more players who hobby without joining us in gasbagging online Plus with how few new models DE have got there's probably a good number of DE players who have their army ready so they're not posting things up as they've nothing new for their DE?

 

I don't think this is a problem per se - there's nothing we can really do about it, but DE haven't been a very popular army and probably never will be. The "evil space elves going round torturing and enslaving" bit perhaps isn't the best pitch, but I think GW can give the army a boost by not not dividing the army up so much - or at least making sure it's never a penalty.

 

We will see what happens with the new box set and codex, but I'm not expecting things to change much with the former.

[INKS]

should be interesting. I'd like to see more people playing DE.  Models and Rules updates probably go a long way into this

[WarriorFish]

Yes, ultimately it all comes down to GW support in the end as the biggest part :( The less GW supports an army the harder it is for people to start it. I often think this was the cause of the Sister's previous fate - GW didn't support the army well so it suffered, then GW thinks the army isn't popular and doesn't support it... Less a vicious circle more a dumb one perhaps? Instead now I wonder if GW left it a bit too late and have been too slow with new support (and that's ignoring the terrible release issues and handling) :confused:

 

Fortunately DE don't have the same concerns with a long standing excellent plastic range of models. As we've mused before there's not a lot left with regards to turning the DE range fully plastic which is surely GW's first and current move. That brings us to the question of new toys naturally - the thing with well established ranges, not to mention fairly limited ones (in particular considering the three way split of the codex). Unfortunately it's hard to imagine anything new coming with this codex.

 

As great as updated kits in plastic are, new models are what can really boost an army as it's new to everyone. I think DE have more scope than most here but we'll need to wait and see as always you never know. It'd certainly be nice to see some more Archons (plus Succubi and Haemonculi of course) :)

[Angel of Death]

Maybe because like 50-60% of the warhammer game in its entirety is about SM vs CSM? Like 50% of all GW does is pumping new models into space marines, the rest into chaos and only the scrapes into the ŕest of the xenos armies. If GW gave only a fraction of their time and support into Dark Eldar as they did for space marines, DE would get the attention they need to become a big force with all the troops they deserve. I cant deny that the range of models in DE could surely have been bigger; and that the range of models now is surely somewhat basic and unsatisfactory. But that alone doesnt mean that people dont play them. At the club i played in, DE was actually a pretty popular army, IN SPITE of being hard to play, overlooked by GW and a fringe army.

 

So all in all, I would like to turn your argument around and say that DE is a big army IN SPITE of being unfairly disproportionately exposed to attention and being overlooked by GW. But there are some things that I can 'agree to disagree' about, so to speak.

[Dread]

They screwed up first by getting rid of so many of our characters which lost flavor. The army as a whole i enjoy even if i cant win. They are some of the best sculpts and some of the worst in 40k. Giving us trueborn and blood brides back would be nice. As stated tho we're not space marines so lil love.

[Angel of Death]

They screwed up first by getting rid of so many of our characters which lost flavor. The army as a whole i enjoy even if i cant win. They are some of the best sculpts and some of the worst in 40k. Giving us trueborn and blood brides back would be nice. As stated tho we're not space marines so lil love.

Dont give up, fellow dark eldar brother. When I first joined the club and I was the dark eldar guy, the only one who played it, everyone was gossiping like 'dark eldar will never win', 'dark eldar only has a few good units', 'DE doesnt have a nice codex with new updates', etc etc. But when I started facing opponents, I completely destroyed and decimated every enemy, one by one. I didnt think it would happen, but it was fun that I started playing and it actually went good. I played against one of the more pro players who had played for 10 years, and decimated his entire army completely, boardwiped him.

 

And after that, I had made myself a reputation at the club, known as a fearsome foe, undefeated player. Maybe not the most jovial and 'play for fun', but deadly.

 

So dont give yourself up. What Im saying is, Dark eldar doesnt suck, but you just have to be the right person for it.

[Dread]

Thanks. No giving up for sure. I have a really big army for that to happen. My biggest problem right now is the being scared to go gaming because of covid. I'm 56 so in the bad zone.

[GrinNfool]

Hard to say how popular they are since everyone's experience will be anecdotal and without GW's sales numbers its hard to say.  If I had to hazard a guess xenos wise we are below the big ones of Orks and CWE, but probably around Tau/GSC level?  Honestly though thats fine by me, there is something amusing to me about running the most mustache twirlingly evil faction there is, that is the way it is for no other reason than it can be.  Even CSM have motives beyond, I wanted to.  "Why did you skin that human while keeping him concious, then put it on inside out and make him walk around in coals?"  CSM says, "For a RITUAL" DE says, "For fun"   There is just something flat amusing about a faction being that crazy just because, that it goes from horrifying to, almost comical if it wasn't so awful.  I mean this is the faction whose leader acted buddy buddy with another Kabal gave him a gift that was actually a black hole... That feels like something the Joker would do if he could figure out how.

 

Anecdotally I have met and played vs 2 others than have had DE armies, which is at least 1 more than I expected to.

 

I think for people to want to collect DE though it tends to take a much more narrow range of mind sets.  I've found the people who collect them, either find amusement in the comically over the top evil aspect of them, and/or just REALLY want to hit their opponent where it hurts, win or lose.  Like always destroying your opponents fav models/units etc. or just denying your opponent from playing how they really want to with their army.  Basically just want to annoy their opponent, win or lose.

Edited January 23, 2021 by GrinNfool

[INKS]

New or fleshed out characters would help a lot too I think. More recently when I look at an army I want to see what characters they have. No because I always want to play those characters but if I want to then I know it's an option.

 

Edit: I went and bought the 8th ed codex. who knows when 9th will come around.

[Angel of Death]

Yeah inkaras I agree with you. This may sound a bit off but when is the new dark eldar release? I havent updated myself on it yet.

 

But on the other hand, I am a pure flesh covens player, we only have 3 units. But I still love them so much and playing them is awesome :D

 

So Im still excited about the new DE release. Maybe they wil bring back some of the good old HQs. :)

[ThePenitentOne]

New or fleshed out characters would help a lot too I think. More recently when I look at an army I want to see what characters they have. No because I always want to play those characters but if I want to then I know it's an option.

 

Edit: I went and bought the 8th ed codex. who knows when 9th will come around.

 

The 9th ed DE Codex is the next one to come. It will preorder on Feb 13th or 27 I think.

[Medjugorje]

Yeah inkaras I agree with you. This may sound a bit off but when is the new dark eldar release? I havent updated myself on it yet.

 

But on the other hand, I am a pure flesh covens player, we only have 3 units. But I still love them so much and playing them is awesome

 

So Im still excited about the new DE release. Maybe they wil bring back some of the good old HQs.

 I think we will get the new codex so early because the next codex will be late (and then we will get Vect back). Each army get  a big boss and our codex is not that important then a few bigger ones.

 

Necrons - Silent King

Space Marines - Guilliman

Orks - Ghazzy

and then we get Vect but there must be a bigger gap between this "main" Boss releases.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Medjugorje

[ThePenitentOne]

When our dex drops (Preorder Feb 13 or 27), the DE VS Sisters box (which includes Lelith Hesperax resculpt) will drop the same day.

 

I am hoping to get other stuff with the release too; I'd like to see grotesques redone at the very least. I'd also like the Court of the Archon models redone.

 

I do think we'll get Vect this edition. I'm not sure it's going to happen with the Dex drop, because we know Lelith is dropping with the dex. Admittedly though, if they did drop Vect as a big centerpiece with the dex, people probably would be less inclined to be upset about Lelith being trapped in a box set for now.

 

Once the DA get their preorder (Jan 30), there will be nothing left for Warcom to hype... Except us. That's when we should start getting real information.

Edited January 26, 2021 by ThePenitentOne

[Malios]

Like my colleagues, I back the statement that only GW knows for sure.

 

My personal view is that there are four additional factors at play beyond subjective popularity and sales:

• I agree with my colleague's previous statements about the learning curve with Dark Eldar: they are an amazing army, but not a forgiving one when things start to turn on you,
• Dark Eldar aren't in the spotlight of the 40k setting: they are small fish compared to the current narrative forerunners,
• GW as a company have over-stretched themselves, and
• There's more revenue in releasing new kits then cyclically revamping old kits. (more evident in AoS's release schedule then in 40k)

Despite being the juggernaught of the industry, and the gateway into tabletop wargaming, its safe to say that GW have overstretched themselves: GW have more gaming systems then other tabletop wargaming companies have miniature lines (40k alone has more space marine factions with rules then privateer press has factions full stop) and their design + development and production teams probably haven't grown to the size they need to be in order to supply the demand.

 

I still find it hilarious that the revamped Dark Eldar are still considered "new" by 40k players, despite a good portion of their plastic kits being 9 - 11 years old now. Granted, there are GW ranges still being sold that are much, much older so its all relative to a frame of reference. Compared to other tabletop wargaming companies who revamp their lines every 5 - 10 years, its probably one of the big criticisms on GW's part (but also a complement in the respect that their kits hold up in quality and detail longer then most of their competitors.)

 

There's also the remnants of the lessons learned from the Kirby era too at play, that's more prevalent in AoS then 40k: selling "new" is more profitable then revamping older kits. When dollar symbols and profit margins are at stake, a brand new line of Primaris Marines that slot into current Space Marine collections (but everyone has to buy because they are new and the rules are biased in their favour) are likely substantially more profitable then releasing plastic for the already existing Dark Eldar finecast kits. I think this is wrong, because in doing so they actually harm the sales of the neglected lines further, but I'm just a hobbyist: I don't see the business side of things.

 

So yeah... I don't think its a matter of popularity on its own: Dark Eldar are certainly popular.

 

[Made some edits. Didn't like how it read the first time]

Edited January 27, 2021 by Malios

[WarriorFish]

New is definitely a relative term yes; the miniatures industry doesn't move particularly fast in this regard. I don't think anyone would want to see kits replaced with greater frequency though it's nice to have some longevity. New models is definitely where the money is at, GW have shown enough willingness to do this over the years and armies. It's interesting to see how SoB get their revamp in comparison to the DE one.

 

This is one of the reasons I would like to see a few new kits for DE, as they've missed out on this "new toy" run. Aside from the obvious as a DE player there's no better way to raise a faction's profile. When we'll see that is the question and as noted GW seems spread rather thin so I think we have our answer there... It's not a coincidence nobody is expecting anything major until the next codex - if then -  which will of course be years from now

 

I think models are the main dish with the lore providing accompanying flavour (rules are pudding). The upcoming box set will be following Blood of the Phoenix in giving DE some attention so maybe we can expect some more recruitment for DE players?

 

I don't mind at the end of the metaphorical day, as my decision to collect DE is nothing to do with their popularity and I reckon I'm very far from alone there. Given the choice between this and Space Marine levels of ubiquity I know what I'd choose When was the last time an opponent got interested because Marines were on the other side of the table?

[Angel of Death]

 

Yeah inkaras I agree with you. This may sound a bit off but when is the new dark eldar release? I havent updated myself on it yet.

 

But on the other hand, I am a pure flesh covens player, we only have 3 units. But I still love them so much and playing them is awesome

 

So Im still excited about the new DE release. Maybe they wil bring back some of the good old HQs.

 I think we will get the new codex so early because the next codex will be late (and then we will get Vect back). Each army get  a big boss and our codex is not that important then a few bigger ones.

 

Necrons - Silent King

Space Marines - Guilliman

Orks - Ghazzy

and then we get Vect but there must be a bigger gap between this "main" Boss releases.

 

Probably. I hope we will get Vect back. With the dais of destruction ofcourse.

[Snazzy]

Vect becoming a "muse" also allows him to be something bigger than an Archon with good equipment.

[Medjugorje]

in the current lore ( path of the dark eldar series ) he has a fake twin and an old model within a flying throne ( ravager ) + Incubi + revenue + slaves on it.

Then we had rules for him footslogging and on his ravager back in 5th edition. 

 

Its very possible to get both (i hope it is like that). I think its not a question about "IF" we get a Vect model, its more the question about  when and what and how many of them^^

 

I know back in 5th edition when the "new" model range were released, GW´s official statement was " Releasing DE was a huge risk because they didnt know if they are that beloved they hoped to be".

 

 

question: what we know about the "muse"? I just know that the dark eldar use to worship them but not more about it.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Malios]

The Dark Muses are Dark Eldar who rose to such infamy that they were respected unanimously for their accomplishments.

 

Less like gods, and more like paragons of infamy in a society of villains.

 

But, GW regularly retcon so who knows when it matters.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Malios

[Medjugorje]

then Vect should be on top of those muses^^

[DOGGED]

When our dex drops (Preorder Feb 13 or 27), the DE VS Sisters box (which includes Lelith Hesperax resculpt) will drop the same day.

 

I am hoping to get other stuff with the release too; I'd like to see grotesques redone at the very least. I'd also like the Court of the Archon models redone.

 

I do think we'll get Vect this edition. I'm not sure it's going to happen with the Dex drop, because we know Lelith is dropping with the dex. Admittedly though, if they did drop Vect as a big centerpiece with the dex, people probably would be less inclined to be upset about Lelith being trapped in a box set for now.

 

Once the DA get their preorder (Jan 30), there will be nothing left for Warcom to hype... Except us. That's when we should start getting real information.

 

This. And then maybe Vect will be THE star of the next Power Awakening-like expansion... Alongside a plastic Urien Rakarth and plastic grotesques?

[ThePenitentOne]

One can dream, but I don't think we'll get that much air time. Being included in one boxed set was unexpected; appearing in two would almost make me feel like I was playing Space Marines! It would be awesome though.

 

And they could be holding back a surprise or two; they've been able to keep the focus on Lelith and the box set so that we have something tangible, and then they hit us with a surprise- they did it with sisters and the paragon: we knew the Palatine was coming, then we discovered she was in the box, then they hit us with the paragon.

 

Releasing Vect, and keeping him a secret until the final week of previews really would sucker punch us though, right? Especially if the got the Dias of Destruction right.

 

Next week we'll see one or two more DE peeks- hopefully the new detachment replacement for Raiding Force. The week after will be wall to wall DE- Crusade content Thursday or Friday before preorder.

[Angel of Death]

I hope we will get back Lady Malys. Obviously the most badass Drukhari who has ever been codexed.

 

She is known also as Queen Malys, the tactician who always wins. And who must be obeyed. She is known to be a master tactician who never loses a battle and who is known for being extremely cruel towards her enemies. But the cruelty is the only thing that they can understand, and it's what awaits them if they oppose us, the dark eldar.

 

I dont remember exactly what rules she had, since the last time I remembered her, it was like in 5:th or 6:th edition. But I think she had lots of tactical rules and something along the lines of 'warlord powers' that let you deploy your army in a more strategic way.

 

Duke Sliscus is definately a HQ that we miss! ;)