Outrider vs Bike Squad

[Grand Master Raziel]

I've been reading threads about the Ravenwing Outrider detachment, both in the Dark Angels main page and in the Army Lists page and it got me thinking about the pros and cons of the Outrider Squad vs the Bike Squad.

 

For 150pts, you get a 5-man Bike Squad or a 3-man Outrider Squad.

 

Shooting output is 5 twin bolters from the Bike Squad vs 3 twin bolt rifles from the Outriders. The Bike Squad generates 20 shots vs the Outriders' 12. The BIke Squad is a clear winner in volume of shots, though the Outriders with their AP -1 are more likely to make any wounds they do go through. I haven't done the math vs likely targets in the game, but I suspect for the price the Bike Squad has better shooting output overall.

 

In assault, assuming you opt to give Astartes Chainswords to the Bike Squad instead of bolt pistols, they generate 16 attacks on the charge whereas the Outriders generate 19. In subsequent rounds of combat, the Bike Squad drops down to 11 attacks whereas the Outriders drop to 10. However, the Outriders have heavy bolt pistols in addition to their chainswords whereas with the Bike Squad you have to choose between bolt pistols or chainswords, so they get 3 shots in the shooting phase at whatever they're engaged with.   There are probably also going to be situations where you can get all 3 of your Outriders attacks in where you wouldn't get to squeeze in all 5 of a Bike Squad's.  It's a clear advantage for the Outriders in the scrum, but not quite as dramatic looking as the Bike Squad has it in the shooting phase.

 

The Bike Squad having 5 models is better than the Outrider Squad with its 3 models at claiming objectives. That matters less in a Ravenwing Outrider detachment, but it still matters if you need to try and scoop an objective from another Obsec unit.

 

As far as durability goes, both units are T5. The Bike Squad is 3 wounds each for 15 total, whereas the Outriders are 4 wounds each for 12 total.  The Bike Squad as a whole takes more killing, whereas each individual Outrider takes more killing than each individual Biker. Plus, Outriders are huge models with a huge footprint, so hiding them can be tricky. On the other hand, when employing an Apothecary, you get more back with Outriders than you do with Bikers.  Overall, I think the advantage still goes to the Bike Squad though.

 

In terms of customizability, the Bike Squad is the clear winner. With the Bike Squad, you also have the option of dropping a Biker and distributing 30 points into various upgrades. Two special weapons and a combi-weapon for the sergeant give the Bike Squad the capability of tackling targets the Outrider Squad would struggle against, with the opportunity costs of reducing the wound total to 12 (same as the Outriders) and reducing their close combat output significantly, but it does tip the shooting output further in favor of the Bike Squad. Alternately, you could use the Bike Squad as a t-hammer delivery system, or go with 2 flamers and a power fist for the sergeant. This would give the Bike Squad a capability to deal with targets in assault an Outrider Squad would have trouble hurting (the last game I played, I had an Outrider Squad stuck in combat with an IG Sentinel the whole game).

 

The last factor I can think of is stratagems. I don't have the supplement yet, so my information is incomplete, but the only strat it looks like Outriders can use that Bikers can't is Transhuman Physiology. Mind you, that is a heck of a strat, and under not terribly uncommon conditions it can really tip the balance of durability in favor of the Outriders.
 

So, in summary, the Bike Squad is clearly better in shooting and in customizability, and absent other factors is more durable, whereas the Outrider Squad is clearly better in close combat, and with Transhuman and the Apothecary factored in, probably comes in equal to better than the Bike Squad in terms of durability.

 

On the face of it, it looks like the Bike Squad is a better investment in points. Am I missing anything?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

That's about it. I would probably go for the outriders because the models are cooler, if I had to choose between the two. Rule of cool sometimes wins.

[davextreme]

I threw them both into my spreadsheet and you’re right. With just Bolters and chainswords, the bikes outperform in shooting (but only slightly), and likewise Outriders very slightly outperform in melee when you count in either their extra attacks from the charge or their pistol shots in melee, but again it’s not even one extra wound.

 

If you build out the Bike Squad and give it a few special weapons, the difference skyrockets. Point-for-point, a Bike Squad with an Attack Bike can do 3–4× the shooting damage of an Outrider Squad while staying even with them in melee if you give the sergeant a power weapon. WIth a combi-weapon obviously they do even more shooting but dip a little under the Outriders in melee, points-adjusted.

 

Bigger bike squads have fewer wounds and become susceptible to blast weapons, but I agree, they have a lot going for them.

[Karhedron]

Since their recent price bump, it is hard to find a metric where Outriders have a clear edge over regular bikers apart from aesthetics (and even there Dark Angels are better off than most Chapters).

 

The discussion about Transhuman Physiology is an interesting but it depends a great deal on what else is in your army. Outriders are already T5 so get less benefit from THP than T4 infantry do against S8/9 attacks. You can only play THP once per phase, if you have other Primaris units in your army, chances are that you will find decent candidates for THP, even without Outriders.

[davextreme]

Since their recent price bump, it is hard to find a metric where Outriders have a clear edge over regular bikers apart from aesthetics (and even there Dark Angels are better off than most Chapters).

 

Which, it should be said, means the points are probably well balanced. Want a slightly longer-lived unit that does a bit better in melee? Take Outriders. Want more shooting options? Take firstborn bikes.

[Grand Master Raziel]

 

Since their recent price bump, it is hard to find a metric where Outriders have a clear edge over regular bikers apart from aesthetics (and even there Dark Angels are better off than most Chapters).

 

Which, it should be said, means the points are probably well balanced. Want a slightly longer-lived unit that does a bit better in melee? Take Outriders. Want more shooting options? Take firstborn bikes.

 

 

I don't think the numbers bear that out though. Firstborn Bike Squads gets you more wounds per point, at the same Toughness and with more models in the unit, making you more likely to scoop objectives from an opponent. If anything, it looks like Outriders are a little overpriced.

[Master Sheol]

IMHO Bike squads are still better than outriders cause the second ones suffer two things

no options

fixed 3 men squad

This is why i still field firstborn bikes

[Fierce Bear]

 

 

Since their recent price bump, it is hard to find a metric where Outriders have a clear edge over regular bikers apart from aesthetics (and even there Dark Angels are better off than most Chapters).

Which, it should be said, means the points are probably well balanced. Want a slightly longer-lived unit that does a bit better in melee? Take Outriders. Want more shooting options? Take firstborn bikes.

I am inclined to agree, in fact I see a lot of evidence in the new 9th ed Codexes that GW have put a lot of thought into making all units viable and have a use case...

 

Personally I prefer a shooty-assault 'power trios' for my RW bikers,, 2x special weapons and a combi weapon on the Sergeant and now with Jink', swift strike and transhuman available to Primaris Outriders they now have a place doing hit and run assaults turn 1 and perhaps do it gain turn 2!

[Zustiur]

One point not covered above is the way their differing wound count alters durability. With the current prevalence of D2 weapons in the game, 5*3 wound models are significantly more durable than 3*4 wound models. Requiring 10 and 6 failed saves respectively.