What other ranks do we have?

[Brother Kraskor]

Was thinking about this again. There's obviously no 'textbook answer', given the vastness of the Imperium and the multitude of local variations in command structure, rank etc. And that goes for all Astartes, let alone a less Codex-compliant chapter like the Templars.

 

So it got me thinking, what other rank titles do we have to draw on? Have you ever come up with your own? Ones that fit the Templar feel? 

 

Slightly tangential I know, but touches on the core theme of the discussion.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Brother Tyler
Added link

[Sword Brother Adelard]

A lot of people think we don't have Sergeants, but we do. But only Sword Brethren can be sergeants, as the rank only exists in squads of Sword Brethren, and command squads.

 

There's also at least two named Captains. Navarre is quite well known, and there was another named in the 3rd ed Codex. I have wondered if it's a rank only bestowed on Champions who don't die in the job

 

My own crusade has Longbow Brethren, they're the specialist cohort who like heavy weapons, forming my 'devastators' and other fire support teams. My Eradicators, when painted, will also be members.

 

I've heard Seneschal used as well by some people.

[Brother Tyler]

Note that I split this from the discussion about the Castellan rank equivalency so as not to drag that discussion off topic. I also added a link that discussion in the first post.

 

I'm reminded of this discussion from 2018 about Black Templars ranks.

[Medjugorje]

its offtopic but when I look into this thread, then I realise how much people are not active anymore:

 

-Honda

-Firepower

-Ciler

 

all of them used to be our sworn Sword Brothers.

[Brother Tyler]

Don't forget @Cyrithicus, @de Payan, @Renaud de Chatillion, @Sigismund Himself, @Von Richthofen, @T14 (previously Templar 14), [the late] @Sword Brother Jeramakus, @Tiberius Tancred, @Iago, @Brother Loring, and any other former Black Templars moderators that I've forgotten. Cyrithicus and de Payan were the original BT mods back in the ezBoard days, followed by Renaud de Chatillion and Sword Brother Jeramakus, then a host of others.

 

And the moderati who are no longer active are far outnumbered by the Fraters that are no longer active. Crusaders come and go, but the Crusade is Eternal.

 

This discussion has occurred several times over the last 21 years, but the "Captain" one that I linked was the only one that I could find quickly. Others have been lost in the Warp over the years - deleted as obsolete/superseded, lost in crashes, or just plain forgotten. It's always fun to re-kindle these discussions and to see what the current crop of members have to add.

 

I think that we're going to see a number of ancillary/honorific ranks, such as Navarre and Alhaus being referred to as "Captain" (Navarre by virtue of an honorific from a great feat, Alhaus due to being called by that title before the Black Templars were fleshed out in 3rd edition with the Third War for Armageddon campaign). The addition of "Sergeants" was more an issue of rules - a sort of retcon when the Black Templars were told to use units from Codex: Space Marines and those units had Sergeants (which didn't exist within the Black Templars after the Third War for Armageddon development). We'll see other titles derived from European chivalry and monastic military orders (such as "Seneschal"). Both "Marshal" and "Castellan" were drawn from the monastic military orders, after all (though both were also used outside of those orders). The modern usage of "Sergeant," too, was derived from the knightly orders.

[Medjugorje]

There used to be Seargents even in 4th edition codex in Swordbrethren Terminator Commandsquads.

[Brother Tyler]

They had them in the 3rd edition rules, too, in the Command, Terminator, Terminator Assault, and Space Marine Veterans Squads. The consensus among many players (not explicitly stated by GW) was that these were "Sergeants" (or "Veteran Sergeants") from a rules perspective, but they simply represented the most senior of the veterans within those units and they didn't actually carry the "[Veteran] Sergeant" rank. None of the units specific to the Black Templars (Black Templars Squad, Black Templars Assault Squad, and Black Templars Bike Squadron) had [Veteran] Sergeants, instead allowing a number of Initiates to take a power fist or power weapon. GW's practice at that time to was either give the usual units from Codex: Space Marines or to replace that type of squad with a [Chapter] ~ Squad when a Chapter's version was noticeably distinct from the norm. So a Black Templars Squad replaced a Tactical Squad, the Black Templars Assault Squad replaced the regular Assault Squad, and the Black Templars Bike Squadron replaced the regular Bike Squadron. The veteran units, meanwhile, were assumed to look and operate identically to their counterparts in other Chapters while adopting the implied rank structure of the Black Templars, which didn't include Sergeants.
 
Moreover, none of the official ['Eavy Metal] or unofficial [Matthew Hutson] miniatures appeared to utilize any markings associated with Sergeants, whether those that were common to the Codex Astartes (Iron Skull mark, helmets in different colors, reversed/special markings on pauldron, etc.) or otherwise. There were plenty of markings, but none were explicitly associated with "Sergeants." It's possible that  there were such markings and we, the players, simply didn't recognize them as such.
 
So the assumption that the Black Templars didn't have Sergeants was by inference rather than by implication, and there was evidence to the contrary (some units actually had Sergeants). After all, the military monastic orders after whom the Black Templars appear to have been modeled (the Templars and Teutonic Knights especially) both had Sergeants within their ranks. A counter assumption might have been that "Sergeants" were only found among the Sword Brethren (veterans). As you can see, however, the more widespread view was that there were no Sergeants.
 
The Master of Sanctity and Reclusiarch roles have existed since 1st edition, first presented in an Index Astartes article on Chaplains (and Commissars) during that era. The roles weren't mentioned during 2nd edition and weren't officially revived until the 5th edition codices. (I bring these up because someone mentioned them somewhere, though not in this discussion.)
 
Getting back to the "Captains," Navarre has been discussed at length (link provided in my earlier post). Alhaus, the other "Captain," is another matter. He wasn't named as a "Captain" by an authoritative source, instead being called that title by an unreliable narrator. It's possible that he wasn't called "Captain" in the encounter the two characters had, but the narrator simply called him "Captain" later since his rank/position (presumably as either Marshal of a Crusade or Castellan of a Fighting Company) were interpreted as "Captain" by the narrator.

[Brother Kraskor]

I've been looking at Teutonic and Templar rank structures and like the idea of a Black Templar 'Knight-Captain' or 'Knight-Commander', as leader of a Fighting Company or Crusade respectively. 

[Medjugorje]

The Black Library AdMech series had Black Templars in it. A very small crusade lead by a chaplain in terminator armor and this one crusader squad ( at least I think it was a normal crusader squad ) had a seargent too.