9th Ed. Wishlist?

[duz_]

Don't forget gents wish list not tactica :tu:

[War Angel]

Don't forget gents wish list not tactica :tu:

Can we wish for tactica? Or more specifically wish for things on how the army plays?

[OldWherewolf]

As long as we can give Scions Move Move Move! I'll be happy to use some of them. A platoon of a couple IG Squads & HWTs for the mid-board and a couple scion platoons & special weapon squads in Valkyries (+ Artillery) for taking them off their backfield objectives.   Sounds like a way to play 9th to me!

 

Now we just need to bring our Artillery up to snuff...

 

I was thinking about the Manticore vs. Basilisk, and I'm thinking they should get the PF vs. Thunderhammer treatment.

• Basilisk:  S9 AP-3 D2
• Manticore S10 AP-2 D3

The strength really doesn't make a difference between them, as very little (if anything) is T9.  However, now we have a choice.  If our local meta is dominated by MEQ, then the Basilisk is the winner.  But other troops would make the Manticore more viable, and make it so we want to take a mixture. 

[jarms48]

As long as we can give Scions Move Move Move! I'll be happy to use some of them. A platoon of a couple IG Squads & HWTs for the mid-board and a couple scion platoons & special weapon squads in Valkyries (+ Artillery) for taking them off their backfield objectives.   Sounds like a way to play 9th to me!

 

Now we just need to bring our Artillery up to snuff...

 

I was thinking about the Manticore vs. Basilisk, and I'm thinking they should get the PF vs. Thunderhammer treatment.

 

• Basilisk:  S9 AP-3 D2
• Manticore S10 AP-2 D3

The strength really doesn't make a difference between them, as very little (if anything) is T9.  However, now we have a choice.  If our local meta is dominated by MEQ, then the Basilisk is the winner.  But other troops would make the Manticore more viable, and make it so we want to take a mixture.

S10 is huge, you can then wound T5 on 2+. I would actually flip the damage the other way. Storm eagle rockets are cluster munitions, which is why it gets 2D6 but would have a weaker payload. While a Basilisk is something like a 155mm artillery piece.

[War Angel]

S10 AP3 is gravis/termi/ plague marine killer. Big difference than S9

[OldWherewolf]

I thinkg the "cluster munitions" thing is the space of the Wyvern, but with only a S4 0AP weapon, its 24 shots is barely better than a Basilisk against T3 5+ armor models. (well it will kill 2 models while the Basilisk will kill 1, but a Wyvern won't kill 1 Marine a turn while the Basilisk will kill 1).  The Wyvern at the minimum needs to 100% ignore LOS and cover before it becomes anything but a joke.

 

T5 is a tipping point, but most models aren't T5, especially the ones holding backfield objectives.  It's either T3/T4 models, or T5/6/7 tanks, so S9 vs S10 doesn't matter.  The bigger problem is hitting on a 5+ because of LOS/(insert all the -1 to hit strats). 

 

But I think I see where you're going.  However, after running a bunch of numbers, the biggest problem with the Basilisk and Manticore is that they are too similar, +1S is almost irrelevant.  We'll just take the one with the +1D.  We either a) don't hit enough on average, or b) with a lot of shots, swing wildly from OP to useless. 

 

Another option would be for something like a Manticore ignores cover while a Basilisk halves movement, that would at least involve some differentiation between the 2.  Or just merge the 2 units into a single "Heavy Artillery" unit that encompasses Griffons, Basilisks and Manticores.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Still hoping they scrap the current scion models and revert back to the kasrkin or something similar

[jarms48]

I thinkg the "cluster munitions" thing is the space of the Wyvern, but with only a S4 0AP weapon, its 24 shots is barely better than a Basilisk against T3 5+ armor models. (well it will kill 2 models while the Basilisk will kill 1, but a Wyvern won't kill 1 Marine a turn while the Basilisk will kill 1). The Wyvern at the minimum needs to 100% ignore LOS and cover before it becomes anything but a joke.

 

T5 is a tipping point, but most models aren't T5, especially the ones holding backfield objectives. It's either T3/T4 models, or T5/6/7 tanks, so S9 vs S10 doesn't matter. The bigger problem is hitting on a 5+ because of LOS/(insert all the -1 to hit strats).

 

But I think I see where you're going. However, after running a bunch of numbers, the biggest problem with the Basilisk and Manticore is that they are too similar, +1S is almost irrelevant. We'll just take the one with the +1D. We either a) don't hit enough on average, or b) with a lot of shots, swing wildly from OP to useless.

 

Another option would be for something like a Manticore ignores cover while a Basilisk halves movement, that would at least involve some differentiation between the 2. Or just merge the 2 units into a single "Heavy Artillery" unit that encompasses Griffons, Basilisks and Manticores.

Storm Eagle Rockets are cluster munitions that deliver a payload of multiple high-explosive warheads which separate from the main body of the rocket at the apex of its trajectory. These warheads have a devastating impact on both infantry and armor formations, and the Storm Eagle Rocket is the most common rocket fired from Manticore tanks.

 

Straight from the wiki. The Storm Eagle Rockets are literally cluster munitions, and always have been.

Edited May 9, 2021 by jarms48

[sairence]

Still hoping they scrap the current scion models and revert back to the kasrkin or something similar

Realistically wishes like that are a pipe dream, if we want to be honest. Even if GW were to scrap existing lines, as unlikely as that is for Scions as I think it's much more likely for them to get the bulk of any Guard updates, they are never going to replace them by bringing back old stuff. It's going to be new designs every time. The best you can hope for is new stuff inspired by old models. And the only times you'll see actual old models brought back is as one-off time-limited things, like the Vostroyans or old Assassins, or as special Black Library releases which I don't think have ever heralded wider releases or consistent rules support for that matter.

[Lucerne]

I mean, it's fairly clear Cadians are going to be a dead range now.

 

Only hope is that they make a new default regiment or something, but I don't see that happening in a few years, if at all, unless we get sucker punched by that rumored Greatcoat guard vs orks KT box.

[OldWherewolf]

Storm Eagle Rockets are cluster munitions that deliver a payload of multiple high-explosive warheads which separate from the main body of the rocket at the apex of its trajectory. These warheads have a devastating impact on both infantry and armor formations, and the Storm Eagle Rocket is the most common rocket fired from Manticore tanks.

 

Straight from the wiki. The Storm Eagle Rockets are literally cluster munitions, and always have been.

Ya, but that can be reconned to say it unleashes a storm of vorpal bunnies.  The problem still stands that we have 2 tanks that perform an identical battlefield role with very similar profiles for similar points cost.  In which case, there's no reason to have 2 as we will always take the one with the better profile.   Other artillery have the same issue: the Whirlwind sucks, but it has a "fight last" strat that can fill a key gap in an army. 

 

The PBC on the other hand is extremely effective because:

• it's extremely resilient with a 5++, and -1D
• the Mortar has the mortal-wound-splash strat

So it has what it needs to be effective by default, and a strat to make it a top performer.

 

Aerial Spotter sucks for 2CP for a re-roll that should be gained some other say, same for Direct Onslaught.  Suppressive Fire is a step in that direction, but we have base our entire army around the artillery to use that strat, same for Pounding Barrage.  So our arty sucks, and needs strats (that are hard to access) to make them perform at an average level.

 

That's why I my wish list for arty is multiple parts:

 

 

Artillery (use any current artillery model: Wyvern, Bas, Mant, Grif)

 

3 different payload types:

1. Airbust fragmentation round - replaces Wyvern
2. HEAF (High explosive Airburst Frag) - replaces manticore
3. Plasma round - replaces basilisk
4. Nova Round - ignores cover

Artillery tank company:

• Master of Ordinance (provides orders and re-rolls, additional fire support and doesn't take up Force Org slot)
• 2-3 Wyverns/Basilisks/Manticores/Griffons (legends) with different submunitions

Strats to make them top performers:

• Suppressive Fire (replace the "unit cannot shoot this phase" with "if the unit scores a hit")
• Pounding barrage (2CP and 2-3 tanks shoot twice!)
• "Fire Mission" (new) - 1CP Allow LOS to be drawn from units in the field rather than the artillery
  • Company commanders, Tank commanders, Tank Squadron commanders (including Sentinels!)
  • Lt with Vox Caster
  • etc.

 

We do the same for other units:

• Officer of the Fleet plus 2-3 Hydras targeting FLY units.  OofF provides re-rolls & orders.  1CP to interrupt an opponent's movement
• Emperor's Fist Tank Platoon (2-3 LRBTs).  Tank Squadron commander provides orders & re-rolls.  1 CP strat for max shots, 1 CP pre-game to provide ObSec to 1 squadron
• Sentinel squadrons outflanking and providing LOS for Arty
  • Also, change "Strike First, Strike Hard" to be the 1st round the unit is on the table. 
• Lts in platoons providing orders and re-rolls.  The platoon can overwatch for each other for free, plus a strat for nearby units

 

Now we start to add in Regimental doctrines:

• Cadians re-roll 1s natively (all hits with Take Aim!) Plus "Overlapping Fields of Fire" strat
• Catachans re-roll dice on number of shots (all weapons, not just vehicles), plus vicious traps strat.
• etc, each providing unique army flavor and playstyle

And the warlord ability:

• Pick a spot on the table, re-roll hit rolls of a 1 when targeting enemy units within 6" of that point.  (or make it 3" and the target point a 40mm objective marker)

 

Now we're talking combined arms, unit flexibility and playing 9th edition.  Infantry/LRBTs/Hellhounds pushing up the midfield.  Arty & HWTs holding our backfield while supporting the push and weakening the enemy backfield.   Then Scions/Special Weapon Teams/Valkyries/Sentinels/Veterans going after the backfield and going for Engage On All Fronts/Scramblers.  And all of them are CORE units.

 

Now we also add in Auxiliaries (Ogryns, Bullgryns, astropaths, ratlings, Baneblades) to add in unplanned threats.  

 

 

New ideas! 

• Armageddon legion:  take a LRBT in a tank platoon.  Tank gets re-rolls from Lt, doesn't get ObSec, but can fire overwatch with the platoon
• Strat:  1CP:  "Hose them" Pick a friendly vehicle units.  Units may target infantry within engagement range of that vehicle with Lasguns, frag grendades and heavy bolters for the remainder of the phase. 

 

(edited for clarity)

Edited May 9, 2021 by Brainpsyk

[jarms48]

 

Ya, but that can be retconned to say it unleashes a storm of vorpal bunnies.  The problem still stands that we have 2 tanks that perform an identical battlefield role with very similar profiles for similar points cost.  In which case, there's no reason to have 2 as we will always take the one with the better profile.   Other artillery have the same issue: the Whirlwind sucks, but it has a "fight last" strat that can fill a key gap in an army. 

 

Aerial Spotter sucks for 2CP for a re-roll that should be gained some other say, same for Direct Onslaught.  Suppressive Fire is a step in that direction, but we have base our entire army around the artillery to use that strat, same for Pounding Barrage.  So our arty sucks, and needs strats (that are hard to access) to make them perform at an average level.

 

That's why I my wish list for arty is multiple parts:

 

 

Artillery (use any current artillery model: Wyvern, Bas, Mant, Grif)

 

3 different payload types:

1. Airbust fragmentation round - replaces Wyvern
2. HEAF (High explosive Airburst Frag) - replaces manticore
3. Plasma round - replaces basilisk
4. Nova Round - ignores cover

Artillery tank company:

• Master of Ordinance (provides orders and re-rolls, additional fire support and doesn't take up Force Org slot)
• 2-3 Wyverns/Basilisks/Manticores/Griffons (legends) with different submunitions

Strats to make them top performers:

• Suppressive Fire (replace the "unit cannot shoot this phase" with "if the unit scores a hit")
• Pounding barrage (2CP and 2-3 tanks shoot twice!)
• "Fire Mission" (new) - 1CP Allow LOS to be drawn from units in the field rather than the artillery
  • Company commanders, Tank commanders, Tank Squadron commanders (including Sentinels!)
  • Lt with Vox Caster
  • etc.

 

We do the same for other units:

• Officer of the Fleet plus 2-3 Hydras targeting FLY units.  OofF provides re-rolls & orders.  1CP to interrupt an opponent's movement
• Emperor's Fist Tank Platoon (2-3 LRBTs).  Tank Squadron commander provides orders & re-rolls.  1 CP strat for max shots, 1 CP pre-game to provide ObSec to 1 squadron
• Sentinel squadrons outflanking and providing LOS for Arty
  • Also, change "Strike First, Strike Hard" to be the 1st round the unit is on the table. 
• Lts in platoons providing orders and re-rolls.  The platoon can overwatch for each other for free, plus a strat for nearby units

 

Now we start to add in Regimental doctrines:

• Cadians re-roll 1s natively (all hits with Take Aim!) Plus "Overlapping Fields of Fire" strat
• Catachans re-roll dice on number of shots (all weapons, not just vehicles), plus vicious traps strat.
• etc, each providing unique army flavor and playstyle

And the warlord ability:

• Pick a spot on the table, re-roll hit rolls of a 1 when targeting enemy units within 6" of that point.  (or make it 3" and the target point a 40mm objective marker)

 

Now we're talking combined arms, unit flexibility and playing 9th edition.  Infantry/LRBTs/Hellhounds pushing up the midfield.  Arty & HWTs holding our backfield while supporting the push and weakening the enemy backfield.   Then Scions/Special Weapon Teams/Valkyries/Sentinels/Veterans going after the backfield and going for Engage On All Fronts/Scramblers.  And all of them are CORE units.

 

Now we also add in Auxiliaries (Ogryns, Bullgryns, astropaths, ratlings, Baneblades) to add in unplanned threats.  

 

 

New ideas! 

• Armageddon legion:  take a LRBT in a tank platoon.  Tank gets re-rolls from Lt, doesn't get ObSec, but can fire overwatch with the platoon
• Strat:  1CP:  "Hose them" Pick a friendly vehicle units.  Units may target infantry within engagement range of that vehicle with Lasguns, frag grendades and heavy bolters for the remainder of the phase. 

 

(edited for clarity)

 

 

I don't see why you even need to change its lore. The manticore can and has had alternate munition types available to it in the past. These were manticore missiles and skyeagle rockets. The former had a larger blast, less strength but more AP. While the latter was basically a lascannon against flyers with bonuses to hit.  

 

If anything, the manticore should get its missing and potentially new ammunition types to choose from in the list building stage. 

 

You do realise no-one (outside of friendly games) uses specialist detachments anymore? So you shouldn't even consider Suppressive Fire or Pounding Barrage, unless it's purely recommending to add them into the normal stratagem list. 

 

If you're bringing back Griffons then why not Medusa's as well? Why not split up the old Colossus Bombard back into the two separate vehicles it once was? The Colossus and the Bombard. 

 

I don't think you should make Pounding Barrage work on multiple units. Just reduce its CP cost to 1. 

 

Why do Leman Russ tanks have to pay for Obsec if they get it for free when taken in a Spearhead detachment?

[OldWherewolf]

If anything, the manticore should get its missing and potentially new ammunition types to choose from in the list building stage. 

 

You do realise no-one (outside of friendly games) uses specialist detachments anymore? So you shouldn't even consider Suppressive Fire or Pounding Barrage, unless it's purely recommending to add them into the normal stratagem list. 

 

If you're bringing back Griffons then why not Medusa's as well? Why not split up the old Colossus Bombard back into the two separate vehicles it once was? The Colossus and the Bombard. 

 

I don't think you should make Pounding Barrage work on multiple units. Just reduce its CP cost to 1. 

 

Why do Leman Russ tanks have to pay for Obsec if they get it for free when taken in a Spearhead detachment?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying.   Bring back the Griffons, Medusas and Colossus Bombards back into a "Heavy Artillery" unit, and just vary the munition type.

 

You do realise no-one (outside of friendly games) uses specialist detachments anymore? So you shouldn't even consider Suppressive Fire or Pounding Barrage, unless it's purely recommending to add them into the normal stratagem list.

 

I don't think you should make Pounding Barrage work on multiple units. Just reduce its CP cost to 1.

 

Why do Leman Russ tanks have to pay for Obsec if they get it for free when taken in a Spearhead detachment?

What I'm saying is that we replace "Specialist Detachments" with "Specialist Squadrons".  That way I don't have to base my HQ, Elites, Troops and FA slots to make a LRBT squadron ObSec, I can just pay to make a single squadron Obsec.   I wouldn't have to base my entire army around an Artillery unit, I can pay for and get benefits for a particular squadron of artillery.

 

This brings back those cool strats into almost every army, and opens possibilities for squadron types

• LRBTs that can advance and shoot
• Static squadrons that gain +1 to hit if they don't move
• ObSec
• "Light" Artillery that if they take Airburst rounds gain +1 to wound against T5 and lower targets
• "AP" Arty that gets +1 AP

And it can be applied to individual force org slots, rather than the entire army.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

New Catachans. A veteran upgrade sprue for Cadians, we’ve got new heads on the new sprue, but a veteran upgrade sprue could have shotguns and a heavy flamer. Upgrade sprues for Cadian bodies for other regiments. Plastic regimental advisors. Commissariat tank commander upgrade to mount in a Leman Russ turret, like the Longstrike upgrade for Tau.

 

Edit: I know it will never happent, but I would love plastic Ksarkin. They'd use the Tempestas Scions data sheet, but would use Cadian regimental doctrines instead. Their fluff, as I understand it, is that they're Storm Troopers, so basically Scions, that are raised by, and operate under the purview of, Cadian High Command instead of the Adeptus Munitorum.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Captain Smashy Pants

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I mean, it's fairly clear Cadians are going to be a dead range now.

 

Only hope is that they make a new default regiment or something, but I don't see that happening in a few years, if at all, unless we get sucker punched by that rumored Greatcoat guard vs orks KT box.

so dead they got the new upgrade sprue.

The lore states that a lot of other regiments copy or mimick Cadians in their uniform and gear, so at most all they need to do is change the regiment name.

[Thoridon]

They'll need reboxing with the new sprue and logo etc. so they can easily rename them to "Astra Militarum Infantry Squad" instead of being Cadian, the same way most Space Marine units are generic.

 

That way the Cadian style can simply be the generic infantry uniform and anything unique like Catachans can have their special name.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Here we go, I hate the salamander.

The model, i hate the idea of it in lore.

 

So here's what I'd like for 9th scrap the salamander completely.

Replace it with something more like an armored car or a humvee.

 

Standard weapon loadout would be either a heavy stubber or a grenade launcher. In the turret. With options for a pintle mounted storm bolter, and/or an HK missile launcher.

 

Give it a scout movement with the ability to transport up to 6 infantry during that scout movement only. (Riding on top until locating the enemy and dismounting)

 

Stat line something like

M14" WS 5+ BS 4+ S5 T6 A1 W8(maybe 10?) Sv3+

Edited May 13, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jarms48]

Here we go, I hate the salamander.

The model, i hate the idea of it in lore.

 

So here's what I'd like for 9th scrap the salamander completely.

Replace it with something more like an armored car or a humvee.

 

Standard weapon loadout would be either a heavy stubber or a grenade launcher. In the turret. With options for a pintle mounted storm bolter, and/or an HK missile launcher.

 

Give it a scout movement with the ability to transport up to 6 infantry during that scout movement only. (Riding on top until locating the enemy and dismounting)

 

Stat line something like

M14" WS 5+ BS 4+ S5 T6 A1 W8(maybe 10?) Sv3+

 

The Salamander Scout was already moved to Legends, so unless GW bring it back it's already gone.

 

Scout tanks were incredibly common practices throughout WW2. Tracks offered much greater mobility off-road than their wheeled counterparts. They could also have better armaments and armour. 

 

So, I don't really see what your issue is with them. They fit perfectly in with the lore. I also don't see why a galaxy spanning armour couldn't have both either. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by jarms48

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Here we go, I hate the salamander.

The model, i hate the idea of it in lore.

 

So here's what I'd like for 9th scrap the salamander completely.

Replace it with something more like an armored car or a humvee.

 

Standard weapon loadout would be either a heavy stubber or a grenade launcher. In the turret. With options for a pintle mounted storm bolter, and/or an HK missile launcher.

 

Give it a scout movement with the ability to transport up to 6 infantry during that scout movement only. (Riding on top until locating the enemy and dismounting)

 

Stat line something like

M14" WS 5+ BS 4+ S5 T6 A1 W8(maybe 10?) Sv3+

The Salamander Scout was already moved to Legends, so unless GW bring it back it's already gone.

 

Scout tanks were incredibly common practices throughout WW2. Tracks offered much greater mobility off-road than their wheeled counterparts. They could also have better armaments and armour.

 

So, I don't really see what your issue is with them. They fit perfectly in with the lore. I also don't see why a galaxy spanning armour couldn't have both either.

My issue is that it's just an el Camino of a chimera...you can just use a damn chimera. Both can have autocannons, and the same hull weapons. It just makes no sense why you'd have a chimera as well as an open topped turretless chimera with a fixed main gun.

 

I don't deny the existence or utility of tracked scout vehicles, but I am not particularly aware of any scout vehicles that were just turretless APCs with the back opened up.

 

I know salamander is in legends but I want it completely gone. I hate it.

[jarms48]

 

 

Here we go, I hate the salamander.

The model, i hate the idea of it in lore.

 

So here's what I'd like for 9th scrap the salamander completely.

Replace it with something more like an armored car or a humvee.

 

Standard weapon loadout would be either a heavy stubber or a grenade launcher. In the turret. With options for a pintle mounted storm bolter, and/or an HK missile launcher.

 

Give it a scout movement with the ability to transport up to 6 infantry during that scout movement only. (Riding on top until locating the enemy and dismounting)

 

Stat line something like

M14" WS 5+ BS 4+ S5 T6 A1 W8(maybe 10?) Sv3+

The Salamander Scout was already moved to Legends, so unless GW bring it back it's already gone.

 

Scout tanks were incredibly common practices throughout WW2. Tracks offered much greater mobility off-road than their wheeled counterparts. They could also have better armaments and armour.

 

So, I don't really see what your issue is with them. They fit perfectly in with the lore. I also don't see why a galaxy spanning armour couldn't have both either.

My issue is that it's just an el Camino of a chimera...you can just use a damn chimera. Both can have autocannons, and the same hull weapons. It just makes no sense why you'd have a chimera as well as an open topped turretless chimera with a fixed main gun.

 

I don't deny the existence or utility of tracked scout vehicles, but I am not particularly aware of any scout vehicles that were just turretless APCs with the back opened up.

 

I know salamander is in legends but I want it completely gone. I hate it.

 

 

The Salamander Scout has been an icon of the Guard ever since 3rd edition, and was around well before a turreted Chimera autocannon was even a thing. That came in sometime around 5th edition. 

 

The Salamander use to be much faster than a Chimera as well. Basically the same speed as the old Hellhound. In 9th edition terms the Salamander should have a 14 inch Movement, and an auto 6 inch Advance. With either the Scout Vehicle or Flanking Manoeuvres abilities. In the lore a Salamanders Autocannon is fired using a four round feeding tray, so in game it should be buffed to Heavy 4 to differentiate it.

 

The one I would agree with you being redundant is the Salamander Command Vehicle. Why would a command vehicle have a heavy flamer as a main armament? It should have only ever had a 2 heavy bolters back in the day, again, to make it different to the Scout variant. 

[sitnam]

I'm not a AM guy, but if guard was to get more regiments in plastic, I'd love to see each regiment getting unique veteran kits with their own datasheets. Tallarn  Mukaali (alongside the return of regular Rough Riders), Catachan Devils, Steel Legion grenadiers, Kasrkin etc.

 

I dont think we're likely to see GW release a bunch of models for specific subfactions, but one can dream. 

 

I don't think this is high on many peoples list, but I'd love a plastic Wyrdvane psyker kit. The psyker battle squad thing has always been real interesting to me, I'd love to see an updated kit.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

 

Here we go, I hate the salamander.

The model, i hate the idea of it in lore.

 

So here's what I'd like for 9th scrap the salamander completely.

Replace it with something more like an armored car or a humvee.

 

Standard weapon loadout would be either a heavy stubber or a grenade launcher. In the turret. With options for a pintle mounted storm bolter, and/or an HK missile launcher.

 

Give it a scout movement with the ability to transport up to 6 infantry during that scout movement only. (Riding on top until locating the enemy and dismounting)

 

Stat line something like

M14" WS 5+ BS 4+ S5 T6 A1 W8(maybe 10?) Sv3+

The Salamander Scout was already moved to Legends, so unless GW bring it back it's already gone.

 

Scout tanks were incredibly common practices throughout WW2. Tracks offered much greater mobility off-road than their wheeled counterparts. They could also have better armaments and armour.

 

So, I don't really see what your issue is with them. They fit perfectly in with the lore. I also don't see why a galaxy spanning armour couldn't have both either.

My issue is that it's just an el Camino of a chimera...you can just use a damn chimera. Both can have autocannons, and the same hull weapons. It just makes no sense why you'd have a chimera as well as an open topped turretless chimera with a fixed main gun.

 

I don't deny the existence or utility of tracked scout vehicles, but I am not particularly aware of any scout vehicles that were just turretless APCs with the back opened up.

 

I know salamander is in legends but I want it completely gone. I hate it.

The Salamander Scout has been an icon of the Guard ever since 3rd edition, and was around well before a turreted Chimera autocannon was even a thing. That came in sometime around 5th edition.

 

The Salamander use to be much faster than a Chimera as well. Basically the same speed as the old Hellhound. In 9th edition terms the Salamander should have a 14 inch Movement, and an auto 6 inch Advance. With either the Scout Vehicle or Flanking Manoeuvres abilities. In the lore a Salamanders Autocannon is fired using a four round feeding tray, so in game it should be buffed to Heavy 4 to differentiate it.

 

The one I would agree with you being redundant is the Salamander Command Vehicle. Why would a command vehicle have a heavy flamer as a main armament? It should have only ever had a 2 heavy bolters back in the day, again, to make it different to the Scout variant.

why would a 4rd clip provide more shots than a drum magazine with presumably 4+ rounds per magazine?

[jarms48]

Why would a 4rd clip provide more shots than a drum magazine with presumably 4+ rounds per magazine?

1) It’s not a clip. It’s a highly advanced auto loading tray. Complete with recoil dampers, electronic sighting, and rangefinders.

2) How many shots weapons have is an abstraction. Why is a lasgun only Rapid Fire 1 when it can potentially fire up to 150 lasbolts in rapid succession? Why are belt feed Heavy Bolters only Heavy 3? The Type characteristic of weapons has always been a balancing mechanism.

3) It’s doctrine. A Salamanders autocannon is designed to rapidly dump the 4 autocannon rounds before retreating. It’s a target of opportunity weapon.

Edited May 14, 2021 by jarms48

[OldWherewolf]

I'm debating on another idea:  "Fix Bayonets!" makes a charging unit fight last (e.g. with the charge, that means they fight normally).

 

Normally, this would be very strong for melee armies, but we're guard, and guardsmen don't do much.  13 (assuming sgt has the free chainsword) S3 AP0 D1 Attacks against a MEQ does .5 wounds, but 1.5 against T3/5+.  Add in the overwatch, and we're up to 2.6 wounds.

 

In and of itself, it's not much, but this presents a choice, FRFSRF+overwatch or FB!+overwatch.  They key thing is that we get to activate first, meaning we get either additional movement, or can reposition models to our advantage.

 

Then you place FB! on a unit of Bullgryns...

 

Also, I'm not entirely sold on my idea of a single tank type with different rounds, I'm looking for a way to make all of them viable.  Another option would be to pay CP to swap them out, but the points cost and basic effectiveness would have to be similar, but be more effective against certain types of units:

• Basilisk:  MEQ (3+ armor), Maybe 8 shots S9 D3 AP-3 shots (against MEQ this is 3.9 wounds)
• Manticore: 12 shots, S10, AP-2, good against everything because of S10, but AP-2 means this could be better against terminators and T5
• Wyvern: 24 shots, S4 AP-1 D1 re-rolling wounds makes this a horde killer

They all have the same potential damage out put (24 wounds), but specialize against certain unit types, and present a flexible choice when making a list.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The Salamander seems like an odd thing to have such hatred against, especially as it’s already pretty much gone from active rosters. As Jarms said it does have a role to fill, and has been in the imperial armory for a while. Plus, think of all the almost redundant artillery vehicles that shared similar roles even before the wyvern came along. There are real world examples of redundancy too... At this point you’re just railing on a model that other people enjoy and that you don’t have to use at all.

 

I also agree “fix bayonets” should be, well, fixed to do something in the next codex.

not railing.

Stated my opinion on the unit and what I would like to replace it, was asked about that opinion, and gave an answer. That's all.