9th Ed. Wishlist?

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

[domsto]

They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

Wouldn't a Infantry Commander rather ride in a Chimera?

Lorewise Tank Regiments and Infantry Regiments are two diffrent units with no overlapping Authoritys

 

But the incruduction of a Command Leman Russ and a Command Chimera could serve well for a Tank/mechanized Armylist

[sairence]

Chimeras should act like Vox-Casters and let orders be issued from inside, without having to use any strats every turn. That's all the command element you need from them really.

 

And tank orders should either work in a radius or there should be more than onne that can be given out. Or something along the lines of "can issue one order to another Leman Russ, but is always affected by his own order as well".

 

Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

Edited May 20, 2021 by sairence

[Shamansky]

Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

 

Yeah, and useful also

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

 

They should have two levels of Tank Commander, both Senior and Junior, and maybe make the difference the number of orders or the distance he can order them. Maybe make the commissariat tank a unit in and of itself. Also I’d like to see a stratagem where a tank commander can choose to issue orders to infantry instead of tanks at deployment, representing a member of high command taking up residency in a Russ to issue orders to his troops from the frontline.

Wouldn't a Infantry Commander rather ride in a Chimera?

Lorewise Tank Regiments and Infantry Regiments are two diffrent units with no overlapping Authoritys

 

But the incruduction of a Command Leman Russ and a Command Chimera could serve well for a Tank/mechanized Armylist

 

That’s a really good point actually, an infantry officer WOULD command from a Chimera rather than a Russ. There should be some way of making a Chimera better at being a command vehicle than what we already have. When I was thinking of the Russ having the ability to order infantry, I was more thinking of a very high ranking Imperial Guard officer, but in such a case, after thinking about it In greater thought, they’d still retain their tank orders too. I’m basically thinking Lord Castellan/Lord Militant/General type of character like Creed or Mecharius and others of their ilk. Depending on the background of such a character, I’d could equally see them commanding from a bunker, or a Chimera or Russ or even a Baneblade now that I think of it. I think a generic Lord Castellan type character would be a cool addition to the army, you could only have one type such character, whether on foot or in a tank, and you’d need to field a Supreme Command detachment to field them. That would be really, really cool IMHO.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Captain Smashy Pants

[bristlybadger]

not "actually"

 

You simply said leman Russ tanks were lumbering seige-y tanks, that couldn't shoot at fliers...you were being corrected for either being wrong or over generalizing.

 

If you're going to argue with me over a throwaway comment like "I'd not picture it as a thing that would readily shoot at zooming flyers" I'd like you to point out where I said it couldn't - because I didn't.

 

Add to that that you were asking "where are you getting that from" and I showed you from one of our best sources possible that it is described as a lumbering, low-tech tank that is not ideal for shooting at aircraft - how in any way is what I said, then, over-generalising? Or wrong?

Edited May 20, 2021 by bristlybadger

[duz_]

I don't see how this current line of discussion fits with the OP of this thread.

 

Keep the discussion civil and on topic or this thread won't last much longer.

 

While we're at it let's try and avoid the excessive quoting in replies. It takes seconds to remove the redundant posts.

[OldWherewolf]

 

Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

 

Yeah, and useful also

 

 

I think most of the Infantry orders also make sense as tank orders

• Take Aim! (aka Gunners, Kill on Sight!)
• Move Move Move! (aka Full Throttle!)
• Bring It Down!  (I would change this to improve AP by 1)
• Forwards, For the Emperor!
• Get Back in the Fight (makes it so a tank can fall back and shoot)

"Fix Bayonets!" could be adapted to "Gun Them Down!", so a tank can shoot in the shooting phase without suffering the -1 to hit penalty for being in engagement range. 

 

If there is an Lt nearby, that would provide re-rolls of 1 to wound.  Maybe add a 2nd order if the one giving and receiving the orders don't move. 

[jarms48]

 

Tank orders in general need to be a bit more creative and varied.

 

Yeah, and useful also

 

 

I came up with a list of additional tank orders: 

 

- Button Up!: The ordered unit treats attacks against them with an AP of -1 as having AP 0 until the start of your next Command phase (stacks with Armageddon Regimental Trait for a total of AP-2). 

- Target Saturation!: Until the end of the Shooting phase, re-roll wound rolls of 1 for all the models in the ordered unit until the end of the phase.

- Watch our Flanks!: The ordered unit may make a free round of Overwatch, if this unit or any friendly unit within 6” is declared as a charge. 

- Back Pedal! Back Pedal! The ordered Vehicle unit can shoot this phase even if it Fell Back in the Movement phase.

 

I feel like these in addition to what we already have would be pretty good. Gives a lot more utility. I've said it before, I'll say it again. 

 

I definitely think Tank Commanders need a minimum of 2 orders and an 18 inch order range. 

 

Another thing I think would be nice is definitions, such as:

 

- Tank Model/Unit: Carnodon, Hellhound, Leman Russ, Malcador, Thunderer.

 

Then we could add Tank as a new keyword for each of these 5 units. A Tank Commander could be changed from Leman Russ to being 35 points + Tank model. They can then order any Tank unit. Pask would be limited to just a Leman Russ but could then order any Tank unit. 

 

This would open up so many options. Also saves from having a datasheet for every type of vehicle commander under the sun.

Edited May 20, 2021 by jarms48

[duz_]

Actually along those lines didn't we lose our ability for defensive fuel Barrels? A strat that could be used in close combat that does X mortal wounds to engaged units would help

[Diagramdude]

I haven’t followed other factions codex releases that closely, did the recent ones like dark eldar and ad mech revive or improve on the specialist detachment rules that were removed earlier? There were a lot of good things in the guard specialist detachments that simply bringing back would go a long way.

 

Also I’d like the codex to help us out in secondary scoring, like how the blood angels get a secondary for being in the opponents deployment zone, if we have secondaries that easily complement our play style that will help a ton. Something like we score points when something from our deployment zone kills something in the enemy deployment zone, or an infantry order that completes an action instantly to free the unit up to act normally.

[jarms48]

Actually along those lines didn't we lose our ability for defensive fuel Barrels? A strat that could be used in close combat that does X mortal wounds to engaged units would help

Fire Barrels weren’t amazing. It triggered on the first unit that made a charge. So could be baited. If they made it a 3” D6 heavy flamer attack, one use only I think that’d be fine.

[duz_]

I wouldn't want the 7th Ed version but a more useful one on a game where melee happens quickly

 

Ideally it wouldn't be restricted to single use only and d6 wounds would be optimal at the very least it would be a partial deterrent

[jarms48]

I wouldn't want the 7th Ed version but a more useful one on a game where melee happens quickly

 

Ideally it wouldn't be restricted to single use only and d6 wounds would be optimal at the very least it would be a partial deterrent

 

I think 5 points for a one-use D6 heavy flamer attacks in melee would be good. If you put it on something like a duel heavy flamer chimera, hellhound, or leman russ with heavy flamers it'd be quite scary. 

[domsto]

Vehicale upgrades in general could use a upgrade.

Besides from maybe the Trackguards they are all garbage right now.

 

I miss the Days when you could plow through Terrain with the Bulldozershovel.

Something similar could be done for 9.Ed

Bulldozershovel: " if a Model epuipped with this upgrade moves through a Terrain with the difficult Ground Traits, this Terrain loses the Trait for the rest of the Game"

Would it bet gamebreaking good?

No

But would it be cool?

Absolutely!

 

To pick up my Idea from before you could make a Command Upgrade for Vehicals

Something like

+10 Points for Chimera/Taurox "A Model can use the Voice of Command ability while embarged in the Transport and is treated as he would be within 6" of a Vox"

+15 Points for Tank Commander(Veteran Leman Russ) "Increase the Range of all Orders to 18" and increase the number of Orders by 1"

+50 Points for Baneblade and Friends "increase the BS to +3, Friendly Units within 18" get +1Ld"

[Diagramdude]

Giving chimeras the native ability to issue orders from inside instead of gating it behind a stratagem would be huge.

[jarms48]

Vehicale upgrades in general could use a upgrade.

Besides from maybe the Trackguards they are all garbage right now.

 

I miss the Days when you could plow through Terrain with the Bulldozershovel.

Something similar could be done for 9.Ed

Bulldozershovel: " if a Model epuipped with this upgrade moves through a Terrain with the difficult Ground Traits, this Terrain loses the Trait for the rest of the Game"

Would it bet gamebreaking good?

No

But would it be cool?

Absolutely!

 

To pick up my Idea from before you could make a Command Upgrade for Vehicals

Something like

+10 Points for Chimera/Taurox "A Model can use the Voice of Command ability while embarged in the Transport and is treated as he would be within 6" of a Vox"

+15 Points for Tank Commander(Veteran Leman Russ) "Increase the Range of all Orders to 18" and increase the number of Orders by 1"

+50 Points for Baneblade and Friends "increase the BS to +3, Friendly Units within 18" get +1Ld"

Personally I think vehicle upgrades should look like:

 

- Dozer Blade: In addition to its current ability this model may now make use of the Breachable terrain trait.

- Augur Array: Increase to 10 points. Units do not receive the benefit of cover to their saving throws for attacks made by a model with a Augur Array.

- Sentinels should be able to take a Hunter-killer Missile, or a Heavy Stubber. It can not have both.

 

As for your other suggestions, the only one I like is the Chimera/Taurox one. The Tank Commander should just be their default ability, and a Baneblade should have BS3+ by default.

 

In addition I think transports should have their own unique upgrades.

- The Command Vehicle upgrade, what you suggested.

- Medicae Vehicle: Can bring back one slain model or heal one model D3 wounds, and has a 6 inch 6+++ aura.

- Artillery Command Vehicle: An embarked Master of Ordinance can issue a single Tank Order to Artillery units, in addition measure from the vehicles hull when determining the aura for Master of Ballistics and Artillery Bombardment.

[Shamansky]

Dozer blade was adding to Ram and if i recall correctly it was also adding front armor. So it could give, let's say, +1 WS/A and/or +1 T/Sv while being shot at from more than 12" or something

Edited May 21, 2021 by Shamansky

[sairence]

Dozerblades should let you ignore difficult terrain and let you makeup use of breachable. Then they'd have a use on vehicles with short-ranged guns.

[OldWherewolf]

Dozerblades should let you ignore difficult terrain and let you makeup use of breachable. Then they'd have a use on vehicles with short-ranged guns.

 

Another really good idea. I like this over the +1 WS/A/T/Sv because I think the blade should be about movement (along with track guards).  Maybe we bring back Extra Armor for +1T.  Going from T8 to T9 might actually be too good, because even a multi-melta would be wounding on 5s.  But it would boost the survivability of a tank quite a bit, but if it's too good we'd take it everywhere. 

 

But more than that, the Dozer Blade would allow us to hide tanks Turn 1, then move thru breachable terrain, which would be HUGE for survivabilty turn 1.  (I'm soooooo having visions of Kelly's Heroes right now!).

 

I really like the 'Button UP!' order, and I think we're on the same page with 'Back Pedal!', we need a way to fall back and shoot especially with how fast units get into melee in 9th.

 

Fuel Barrels could now be a strategm, that would take away the points cost, but give flexibility instead of having to put it on a specific unit (and pray you put it on the right unit!).

 

One of my hangups is that I don't want HQs to be giving specific orders to specific units.  HQs shouldn't be ordering squads or individual tanks, their orders should affect the army, and reflect the battle strategy.  I want a reason to keep him alive, as I don't think my army commander should just run up to the enemy with his power sword, get 3 swings and die.  Something like

• Cadian "Superior Tactical Training" - while your warlord is alive, on a 4+ any Lt/Platoon commander within 12" of the warlord can issue one more order (this additional order may not generate any additional orders).
• Catachan - "Lead from the front" - units within 12" of your warlord get +1A/+1AP
• Valhallan - Tenacious - models within 12" of your warlord get a 6+++ save

Those would just be 'Regimental Doctrine" abilities that you combine with warlord traits, and (if you take my idea) of pick a spot and get re-rolls to hit around that table, and your commander is a beast that impacts the entire battle.

 

Then we just need to fix the warlord traits...

[Commisar Necros]

I'm not sure about the officers orders changing the whole army, that seems more for what stratagems are for. These are mid range officers too, someone overseeing 100 guys cant change much in a regiment of a million. I think what you want would be better done with more and more diverse relics, which i think we need.

 

What I want is better baneblades. Maybe some kind of force field 5++, better BS. It feels like a lodestone in my collection. I like the old platoon system I grew up with, but the detachments replaces it thouroughly. Maybe some kind of CP discount if we take certain units. Or a junior officer that doesn't take a slot every 3 inf/vet/HWS/SWS/Con. Help keep the form of platoons and give more variety for orders without changing the core. Then keep the available command squad for each, but shunt it out of the force org too. And I want my old platoon banners back too, my regiments lore is for a bunch of nobles so more flags, more better. Maybe give them some cheap morale reroll for the platoon and a bigger bonus than +1ld for the company banner. Maybe even a relic banner or something. The guard should be about buffing than giving one guy a bonus so I'd like more relics going that way.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I'm not sure about the officers orders changing the whole army, that seems more for what stratagems are for. These are mid range officers too, someone overseeing 100 guys cant change much in a regiment of a million. I think what you want would be better done with more and more diverse relics, which i think we need.

 

What I want is better baneblades. Maybe some kind of force field 5++, better BS. It feels like a lodestone in my collection. I like the old platoon system I grew up with, but the detachments replaces it thouroughly. Maybe some kind of CP discount if we take certain units. Or a junior officer that doesn't take a slot every 3 inf/vet/HWS/SWS/Con. Help keep the form of platoons and give more variety for orders without changing the core. Then keep the available command squad for each, but shunt it out of the force org too. And I want my old platoon banners back too, my regiments lore is for a bunch of nobles so more flags, more better. Maybe give them some cheap morale reroll for the platoon and a bigger bonus than +1ld for the company banner. Maybe even a relic banner or something. The guard should be about buffing than giving one guy a bonus so I'd like more relics going that way.

Most regiments aren't a million strong, some might be but that's probably more of an exception rather than the rule, but a company commander in reality for most would be in an HQ and not on the field of battle proper any way.

 

But if you need a lore justification it's just the company commander relaying orders from higher up to the men in this specific battle or part of the battle

[Diagramdude]

Baneblades need a rules/stats boost for sure, but they also could really use some sort of "no force org slot" allowance like a battleforged REGIMENT army/detachment where every unit is the same REGIMENT can bring a superheavy REGIMENT vehicle without using a LoW slot. It's extremely unattractive to spend 3-4 CP just to field it right now.

[jarms48]

 

I'm not sure about the officers orders changing the whole army, that seems more for what stratagems are for. These are mid range officers too, someone overseeing 100 guys cant change much in a regiment of a million. I think what you want would be better done with more and more diverse relics, which i think we need.

 

What I want is better baneblades. Maybe some kind of force field 5++, better BS. It feels like a lodestone in my collection. I like the old platoon system I grew up with, but the detachments replaces it thouroughly. Maybe some kind of CP discount if we take certain units. Or a junior officer that doesn't take a slot every 3 inf/vet/HWS/SWS/Con. Help keep the form of platoons and give more variety for orders without changing the core. Then keep the available command squad for each, but shunt it out of the force org too. And I want my old platoon banners back too, my regiments lore is for a bunch of nobles so more flags, more better. Maybe give them some cheap morale reroll for the platoon and a bigger bonus than +1ld for the company banner. Maybe even a relic banner or something. The guard should be about buffing than giving one guy a bonus so I'd like more relics going that way.

Most regiments aren't a million strong, some might be but that's probably more of an exception rather than the rule, but a company commander in reality for most would be in an HQ and not on the field of battle proper any way.

 

But if you need a lore justification it's just the company commander relaying orders from higher up to the men in this specific battle or part of the battle

 

 

Considering most company commanders would be Captain, or maybe Major grade officers. They'd certainly be fighting on the front lines. Your regimental officers like Colonels, or even higher senior command staff would be the ones off the battlefield.

[duz_]

Having company commanded being able to issue the same order to multiple squads count as a single use would allow some flexibility and I don't think would be game breaking