State of the Union (Heresy)

[Hfran Morkai]

I thought it prudent to discuss the current situation regarding FW's Horus Heresy scene. This isn't intended as a place of griping although we do all feel a little shunned by FW/GW which especially as it was called "one of the core systems" stings. I'm hoping this can be productive and inspiring.

 

Sadly it looks like "Age of Darkness" has been left by the wayside.

 

Yes we unfortunately lost Alan Bligh, pretty much the visionary of the Heresy but that was years ago now and there's no doubt that there are people just as passionate as he was about the setting (check out people like Mournival Events for example, outstanding work). Anuj recently departed FW as well, leaving a single person to deal with the meat of the lore and the rules. FW were attempting to recruit someone else to the Heresy but I'm currently unsure if they have or not (I don't recall seeing any announcements). We desperately need some new blood in the FW Heresy team to help gain some momentum. Yes, Covid has certainly caused some issues but Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Adeptus Titanicus and Lord of the Rings are receiving regular miniature and written support.

 

Regarding the books:

 

Crusade, the most recent was significantly shorter than the other projects (incidentally Anuj has declared that significant work had been done on book 10 before his resignation), yet apparently the Dark Mechanicum were cut from it as there wasn't enough room. This could be beneficial meaning that the Dark Mechanicum may be a significant army list.

 

FAQs have been sadly lacking. The last general FAQ was over two years ago, leaving us still with unanswered questions and rather funnily, playtest rules for a significant period of time. Recently there was an unannounced FAQ for Crusade, which feels horrifically unfinished and the fact that no Community post or email has yet been received is confusing. What is more concerning though is the fact that Malevolence, the book before Crusade is in fact still in need of a FAQ.

 

Miniatures:

 

We're currently still awaiting the release of the Word Bearer Praetors, miniatures that were shown in April last year. This has got to be one of the longest previews that we've seen from FW/GW in history.

 

There are still plenty of units currently not represented with miniatures support, which means even if books are currently on the back burner due to lack of resources that these could at least be filled out. FW claimed to want a Legion Leviathan as well as TDA and AA Praetors for each Legion. The fact that very few models have come out for AoD in the past year makes me think that they've frustratingly reallocated most of the sculptors to other games systems which are receiving regular support.

 

Getting into The Heresy is difficult as GW is moving away from Firstborn Marines with their Primaris. Stores are less and less likely to have MkIII, MkIV, Cataphractii and Tartaros boxes in stock. The removal of the (by comparison) fantastic value Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero boxes (the only place to get two of the Heresy's Special Characters) hit hard and made entry into the Heresy even more prohibitively expensive.

 

I think the worst thing is just not knowing FW's plans. Heresy weekenders have become "Specialist Games" weekenders or just cut (even if they couldn't hold a physical one this year surely they could have done a virtual event, a bit of a roadmap etc). The Heresy sells, they know that. Is that why we've been waylaid?

 

What I feel we need:

 

•Communication from FW about the intended future of The Heresy

•New blood in the writing department and sculpting, even if it's reassigning current assets

•FAQs to be updated

•A way of starting a force with some savings as opposed to having to buy all the boxes independently

 

Obviously I'd like to see GW releasing some more kits in plastic, such as Deimos Rhinos (FW could sell Predator, Whirlwind kits etc), Assault Marines with Heresy Era armour (again, maybe sell as a Despoiler Squad and FW provide Jump Packs). Could we see this sort of thing happening with GW looking to produce less MkVII miniatures due to the rise of Primaris? Maybe.

 

I DO still have hope for Heresy, and I sincerely hope it comes back in a big way after a couple of disappointing years.

 

I would value your input.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hfran Morkai

[The Scorpion]

Obviously I'd like to see GW releasing some more kits in plastic, such as Deimos Rhinos (FW could sell Predator, Whirlwind kits etc), Assault Marines with Heresy Era armour (again, maybe sell as a Despoiler Squad and FW provide Jump Packs). Could we see this sort of thing happening with GW looking to produce less MkVII miniatures due to the rise of Primaris? Maybe.

What we need is a new Istvaan III boxet, featuring plastic MK2 and a new plastic MKIV dreadnought or proto-Indomintus terminators (in the same vein as Tyberos or the Gorgon termies).

Geedubs Could add the mars pattern rhino and predator to get rid of the Firstborn stock and "fill" the box without having to make too many new models. The vehicles are era-appropriate, and FW sells heresy-themed upgrades for them. With that box, 90% of the Heresy problems would be solved.

• All armor patterns would be available, 3/5 of them in plastic.
• The new box would make for a perfect entry point into HH. Unlike the Prospero Box, you could use all the minis for the same army.
• A big HH release would prove that the game is recieving support.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lol its ok guys, necromunda just got another box set instead

[Wolf in the Shadows]

Was just watching the GW preview when they mentioned that there would ne a new Necromunda starter box. The reason, quite rightly, is to get new players into the game and as there are so many rule books it is difficult. I agree totally however as someone that wants to get into 30k it would be nice if they showed that sort of commitment to the game. 

 

I've had a few false starts never getting past the wish listing stage however the number of times figures have disappeared at short notice or have never been made keeps putting me off. The background and the community is the only thing that keeps me interested. I'd be happy if they did a zone mortalis size starter set in plastic with some assault and breacher squads just to show that GW and FW are going to support the game.

[sarabando]

honestly i think its the lack of communication that has done the most damage. if FW had come forward and said "look HH isnt as popular as Necromunda/bloodbowl etc so during covid we are going to scale back on releases and focus on those"  i would have personally be a bit more understanding. But the thing is the heresy scene is active, my IG and FB feed is always full of "just started/getting into heresy" posts and theres clearly a market there that honestly isnt getting the support it needs. Rereleasing the Calth box with out the mini game and just with a new mini rule book would go a loooong way to making things better.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Their communication is awful. For example, they released the Companions and would use language such as 'Hot on the heels of Jonson and Book 9...' That release was two months prior to the Companions, that's such a disconnected way of addressing it.

 

The blaming of contemporary circumstances a big issue I have, and I find others using that to brush off complaints is beyond carelessness to full blown dishonesty at this point. The other games are still chugging along, even if at a slower pace, Heresy has just dropped pretty much in entirety.

 

The miniature release cycle has been beyond bad. Models that have been previewed a year ago are still not out. These are models that were previewed with Ephrael Stern back in Psychic Awakening. As you said, they could be doing praetors or leviathans. There's plenty of filler releases they could be doing while books are slow to come and while they get their rules staff in order.

[Cris R]

One thing I wonder is whether 30k suffered from introducing a release model that other Specialist Games took and perfected, namely the GW core plastic releases with Forge World upgrades. When you look at Calth, Prospero, and the plastic boxes, you saw that GW/FW was beginning to figure out this release model. Blood Bow, LoTR, Adeptus Titanicus, and Necromunda took that approach and refined it to the point most of the core ranges are GW plastics supplemented with FW models and bits.

 

However, FW and Specialist Games didn't take what it learned from these systems and applied it to 30k, allowing it to remain mired in this no man's land where it's an incomplete plastic range. Obviously Alan's death and FW and GW's business decisions directly allowed this situation to fester as others have noted, even with a strong community of players. But I can't help but wonder whether 30k would have fared better if say Necromunda introduced this model first and GW and FW took these lessons and applied them to 30k.

 

At this point, FW and GW could try to rectify this issue with new plastic releases, but I feel the damage has been done and it'll be hard to overcome this inertia without significant investment in the system, something that seems to be in short supplies these days. Those are my two cents.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Cris R

[TPS]

At this point, FW and GW could try to rectify this issue with new plastic releases, but I feel the damage has been done and it'll be hard to overcome this inertia without significant investment in the system, something that seems to be in short supplies these days. Those are my two cents.

I would already be quite happy with them doing another print (err ... cast?) run of Betrayal at Calth and/or Burning of Prospero. Or an updated version, like how they did it with Imperial Knights Renegade.

[Cris R]

 

 

At this point, FW and GW could try to rectify this issue with new plastic releases, but I feel the damage has been done and it'll be hard to overcome this inertia without significant investment in the system, something that seems to be in short supplies these days. Those are my two cents.

I would already be quite happy with them doing another print (err ... cast?) run of Betrayal at Calth and/or Burning of Prospero. Or an updated version, like how they did it with Imperial Knights Renegade.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for them to bring back Calth and Prospero in their original or gameless forms. The system needs it to keep attracting players. My point is that GW’s decision to stop moving towards plastics after Prospero and its standalone components left it in a place where it’s only partially accessible to new players compared to the Specialist Games that followed, a situation made worse by ending the two starter boxes.

 

But like other folks have noted, the problem now has evolved towards a lack of follow through with announced releases, communication, and FAQs. And that’s something that GW and FW can rectify quickly, which makes these problems even more galling.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Cris R

[Robbienw]

It seems obvious to me that Heresy is currently suffering from model and content release scarcity because the forgeworld miniatures designers (the guys who do resin models, separate from the designers who sculpt the plastic SG stuff) and some of the people who do the artwork and stuff for books have been working on Warhammer: The Old World.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't want to derail too much on The Old World, but I can hardly believe that they will be doing that in all resin, there has to be a plastic core set for that. Doing a rank and file army in full resin is hardly an appealing prospect. Perhaps there will be some structural changes to HH that comes with that. Edited March 20, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Gorgoff]

 

Miniatures:

 

We're currently still awaiting the release of the Word Bearer Praetors, miniatures that were shown in April last year.

Well, that sorted itself out pretty fast. ;) Edited March 21, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Hfran Morkai]

@Gorgoff indeed, that was a pleasant surprise.

 

I'm also hoping it indicates a change in the winds abd we start seeing some more frequent support (and ideally a new plastic box of goodies, MkII, Assault etc) but even just updating the FAQs and playtest rules. :)

 

Maybe someone at FW read the forum. ;)

[Gorgoff]

@Gorgoff indeed, that was a pleasant surprise.

 

I'm also hoping it indicates

... that you should wish for more stuff and use your superpowers wisely.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I doubt it indicates anything other than they finally decided to jam them into a release. There were enough opportunities throughout the year; DAs release inflated the overall 30k units launched and necromunda still almost had as many. Add the other specialist games and it really puts things in perspective.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I mean at least now we can expect that something new might be revealed at some point this year.

 

Maybe they even give us two lines in an online preview

Edited March 21, 2021 by Marshal Vespasian

[infyrana]

I mean at least now we can expect that something new might be revealed at some point this year.

 

Maybe they even give us two lines in an online preview

 

Lots of thread edits here.. did I miss something, half reading these last few posts almost makes me think something sneaky was announced? 

[Hfran Morkai]

Nah just the two Word Bearer Praetors going up for order this coming Friday (unless I have also missed something).

 

And I'll try to use my superpower for good Gorgoff. ;)

 

MkII in plastic please, plastic Assaults and Breachers, the return of every Legion's shoulder pads in various marks.

[Dark Legionnare]

Nah just the two Word Bearer Praetors going up for order this coming Friday (unless I have also missed something).

 

And I'll try to use my superpower for good Gorgoff.

 

MkII in plastic please, plastic Assaults and Breachers, the return of every Legion's shoulder pads in various marks.

This is what I was gutted about the most when I went to finally do my Luna Wolves army. I REALLY had my heart set on the MKII assault marines.  Some day maybe they'll be back.... If not, I'll get my 3D printer mass-producing some day.

[sarabando]

Im not asking much just the same sort of treatment as the other boxed games, i mean underworlds has had what 4? starter sets since release. Necromunda has had 3, Kill team at least 4 (although some are more like expansions) 2 bloodbowls, 2 warcry iirc. we havent had 1 propper starter set just 2 boxed games that happened to use the same minis.

[Sarvis]

I don’t understand why 30k isn’t Forgeworlds main line, at all. They should be producing way more product for 30k than for specialist games, because forgeworld is the only provider of 30k minis.

[infyrana]

 

Nah just the two Word Bearer Praetors going up for order this coming Friday (unless I have also missed something).

 

And I'll try to use my superpower for good Gorgoff.

 

MkII in plastic please, plastic Assaults and Breachers, the return of every Legion's shoulder pads in various marks.

This is what I was gutted about the most when I went to finally do my Luna Wolves army. I REALLY had my heart set on the MKII assault marines.  Some day maybe they'll be back.... If not, I'll get my 3D printer mass-producing some day.

 

 

@Hfran Morkai  Ah gotcha thanks!  MkII / MkIII breachers and assault marines would be awesome, I would definitely like some more plastic MkIII arms that are melee oriented.  Not sure what larger items they should include, but I would never say no to a poseable Contemptor / Deredeo / Leviathan.

 

@Dark Legionnare  Same, since they aren't available I went ahead and printed my first MkII marine the other day, came out great, I'm just not happy about the selection of arms and chain axes right now (tried a few but yet to find something I like that works for what I wanted).  I suspect I'll have a full squad once I open the next bottle of resin - but I would much rather plastic MkII in the quality of the other sets.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don’t understand why 30k isn’t Forgeworlds main line, at all. They should be producing way more product for 30k than for specialist games, because forgeworld is the only provider of 30k minis.

That was the case until last year and this year. 30k releases have damn near imploded and collapsed in entirety to zero over the past year, something like an 80% decrease in output. At the same time, Specialist Games likely saw an increased release rate post reopening of FW in order to catch up, as FW continued to do weekly releases.

 

For reference, in 2019 around 36 kits were released for 30k. Over the past year, Qin Xa, Lion El'Jonson, Deathwing Companions, Contekar, Saul Tarvitz and two weapon packs, for 7 / 36 -> 19% of the release rate of 2019. This will increase to 9 / 36 -> 25% with the inclusion of the Word Bearers Praetors.

Edited March 22, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[SkimaskMohawk]

Because lotr is more recognizable and got the box game + reboot instead.

 

I'm honestly very surprised by their renewed push into lotr. I liked it a lot, but after war of the ring and the hobbit it just seemed like it was an IP that was done, but then they put a bunch of their designers on it and are trying to bring it back.

[Cris R]

Because lotr is more recognizable and got the box game + reboot instead.

 

I'm honestly very surprised by their renewed push into lotr. I liked it a lot, but after war of the ring and the hobbit it just seemed like it was an IP that was done, but then they put a bunch of their designers on it and are trying to bring it back.

It also had a really passionate fan base that worked hard to make GW and FW recognize the value of investing in the range. For instance, Devin who runs the LOTR games for the NOVA Open spent years cultivating that game system and its community in the U.S. even though it had little support at the time. I remember NOVA around 2014 and 2015 when those events would sell out even though some folks forgot the system even existed. Obviously FW and GW saw a good business opportunity to revive the game, but that community definitely helped make the case for that decision. And given that Devin is a great guy, I'm very happy for him and thinks he deserves that outcome.

 

But the 30k community is just as passionate about the game as the LOTR folks are about theirs. The Mournival guys are one of the absolute best examples of that. But the impediment is clearly is GW and FW for the reasons other folks have noted in this thread.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Cris R