Noserenda Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 They have datasheets for Bastions(Named bunkers) and Aegis Lines plus a new datasheet for big walls ala Terra which are a bit like a double bunker. WrathOfTheLion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Yeah seems terrain got a bit of an "8th-ing" which isn't good. mooftak 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 The bunker lost its options and is only AV13. Building damage table is not as bad as last edition, but it's still a bit punitive compared to transports WrathOfTheLion and Spagunk 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Anyone have the picture entries for Jetbikes and Javelins? I heard jetbikes moved to T4 2W and Javelins are T6 now. The Scorpion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 The bunker lost its options and is only AV13. Building damage table is not as bad as last edition, but it's still a bit punitive compared to transports Yeah bunker is weak sauce and can fit what, 6 dudes? Its not a serious fortification by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsam Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Anyone have the picture entries for Jetbikes and Javelins? I heard jetbikes moved to T4 2W and Javelins are T6 now. That statline is correct. The jetbikes lost T5 and 2+ and got a wound. Not a great trade. They lost jink and can get Shrouded by running instead, but they'd be relying on "evade" against good weapons. They're no longer fast and heavy slots, not they're just fast and can take any number of heavy weapons, mixed and matched. It's a real nerf. Someone clearly Chogorian Brotherhooded the playtesters. mooftak 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Outriders are even worse, T4 and 1W...I am trying to find reason why would I ever use them, but can't find it...they were crap, and they remain...sad to have them collect dust still...beautiful models though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmus Tyro Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Outriders are even worse, T4 and 1W...I am trying to find reason why would I ever use them, but can't find it...they were crap, and they remain...sad to have them collect dust still...beautiful models though. Well, I’ve had the opposite experience with them, they were an asset in my recon company list. Melta in this edition is going to be much more useful, no AC on vehicles and lots of 2W veterans and plasma has been nerfed significantly. They’re a good Melta delivery system! Cadmus Noserenda and Varyn 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scorpion Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Anyone have the picture entries for Jetbikes and Javelins? I heard jetbikes moved to T4 2W and Javelins are T6 now. That statline is correct. The jetbikes lost T5 and 2+ and got a wound. Not a great trade. They lost jink and can get Shrouded by running instead, but they'd be relying on "evade" against good weapons. They're no longer fast and heavy slots, not they're just fast and can take any number of heavy weapons, mixed and matched. It's a real nerf. Someone clearly Chogorian Brotherhooded the playtesters. So basically the Sky Hunters and Sky Slayers have been fused into one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Outriders are even worse, T4 and 1W...I am trying to find reason why would I ever use them, but can't find it...they were crap, and they remain...sad to have them collect dust still...beautiful models though. Well, I’ve had the opposite experience with them, they were an asset in my recon company list. Melta in this edition is going to be much more useful, no AC on vehicles and lots of 2W veterans and plasma has been nerfed significantly. They’re a good Melta delivery system! Cadmus Expensive and easy to die melta delivery system. compare them to skyhunters with multimelta, how much cheaper are they? New recon company seems essential, comparing how much it buffs your chances to go first, and snipers are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Outflank assault vehicle. Move 12 inches. Disembark in base contact. Move 7 inches (or 8, depending on the unit). Charge. Opponent gets 1, maybe 2 reactions. Or ... Deep strike entire army. Charge. See above. Combine with wound allocation shenanigans and simplified fire arcs. Game seems to have become a lot less tactical, and lot more dependent on stratagems ... *cough* ... sorry, 'Reactions'. Deployment is essentialy irrelevant. And so are objectives, since scoring it not as prevalent anymore. Ebon Keshig ROW seems like a great idea: You don't get VP for blowing up my stuff, and I'll keep your from scoring by assaulting you without thought for consequences. Augury scanner now required on every unit (you're dead if you don't take it, surprise). Sheesh, can't balance the rules you wrote yourself ? so the hotfix is to hand out a certain item like candy to fix the error ? Yeah, no. Hello, consistent rules writing ... On the other hand, lots of units lost options and the diversity in choices we had before. Veteran options gone. Certain equipment options gone. Auto Iron-Halo and auto Refractor ... but not more Digital Lasers etc. Don't even wanna see what the smaller lists (Mechanicum, Milita) lost, that depend a lot more on options than the average Legion. Sniper(s) were buffed from 'semi-useless' to 'beyond OP'. Some of the Legions (3 to 4) got really really nice fluffy and playable options, some awesome ideas actualy. Some of the Legions got simplified into pure boredom. Hello, consistent rules writing ... Alpha Legion rules went from 'highly situational, needs a lot of planning' (as it should be, mind you), to stupidly powerful and cherry-picking stuff you like. Notice a pattern there ? (And don't get me wrong, I play AL Recon Company, something not many people did, and used to be happy with the list(s), but those new changes are power creep on the stupid level.) It occurs to me, that there were a a truckload of good ideas here ... fluffy ones even, aimed at the gentleman HH player ... but execution seems to be a mess. If these phase three playtest rules are anything like the final product will be, then 30k has become a LOT more like 40k. And that is not a good thing. I'll still be getting some test games in (soon, in fact), and would still be happy to find out the game actualy got better, but not expecting much really. Lord Marshal, Rejects of Anvilus, Fenbain and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 One mitigating factor to some of that is that we've only seen what appear to be very early play test rules for Traitor Legions. Maybe not much will change, I don't know. We don't really know how much changed between the early play test loyalists and the 'Phase 3' document that has been leaked everywhere. But you'd hope some of the rules for Legions get balanced out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Did generic Rites get axed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCore67 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Outriders are even worse, T4 and 1W...I am trying to find reason why would I ever use them, but can't find it...they were crap, and they remain...sad to have them collect dust still...beautiful models though. Just wanted to point out that even though outriders and sky hunters lost durability, they became fairly cheaper, their weapon upgrades became cheaper, and the ability to fire their pistols on top of their vehicle weapons. Edited April 5, 2022 by ShadowCore67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Did generic Rites get axed? Nop ;) Marshal Rohr 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstKnight Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Did generic Rites get axed? Nah, they didn't, they're listed in the Appendices. There are 9 Unaligned Rites of War. Marshal Rohr 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Has anyone tried to work out if the Subterranean Assault RoW is worthwhile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) While I disagree with a lot of unknown legionnaire's takes, I do share a worry for deepstrike forces and the knock on effects. Deepstrike assaults seem very strong. This might change a bit with the unit coherency, but they're still very strong. To even attempt to balance it, they gave every unit access to augury scanners, which now lets you Intercept for free and break the cap of 3. Suddenly, an army can shoot in the opponents movement phase if they're deepstriking. The universality of the augury scanner also leads to Night Fight losing (imo) the most interesting part of its rule. It also neuters infiltrate, though it basically just sets it to its current 'full sight' distance of 18". The caveat to all this, is the only special unit with access to the augury scanner is the interemptor (and tyrants with their omniscope). The more someone builds a list around rites and/or their legions special units, the fewer instances of intercept there is. I mean, free intercept. Other units can still use reaction points to do it. Another counter play to them are snipers. Because augury scanners are taken on models, those models can be sniped off with precision strikes. You'd need an average of 5 shots to rend them out, which is how many you get in a recon or scout squad. I guess with the changes to drop pods not coming in on turn 1, you can prep the LZ so to speak with scouts and try to only have reaction point intercept left. Edited April 5, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk Astartes Consul and Noserenda 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bung Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Has anyone tried to work out if the Subterranean Assault RoW is worthwhile? Yes If you want more Drills Astartes Consul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Has anyone tried to work out if the Subterranean Assault RoW is worthwhile? Yes If you want more Drills *Brrrrrrrrrr* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 You know, is it fine to ever play the game without trying to win? I always struggle with the first reaction to a ruleset being how to find the best combination possible, and consign everything else to the bin/dusty shelf. That's just disappointing, and actually takes the fun out of playing for anyone not actually approaching a game as a zero sum game/exploit all opportunities thing. GAZ_AV_NZ, Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra, Corswain and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstKnight Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I'd love to do Subterranean Assault for my Scars, but £98 (??!!) a pop just for one transport leaves me a touch cold! Still, I'm kinda weak and the Drills are fantastic minis. Maybe one day... Petitioner's City, Gorgoff and WrathOfTheLion 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 You know, is it fine to ever play the game without trying to win?That's the spirit.I do want my army to work though. But yes not just winning and thinking of how to break the system. Petitioner's City, mooftak, The Scorpion and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 Anyone have details on scoring in 2.0 and table setup? Easy to get wrapped up in theorycrafting without knowing what is in store for objectives. dicebod and Mr Farson 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suxdavide Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 If I'm not mistaken only "line" units can score, and these units ain't too many (basically tacticals, assault, breachers) Brofist 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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