State of the Union (Heresy)

[TheTrans]

I'm just worried that GW will go through and strip out all the rules for OOP models and Characters that don't have models (which I think they will, hence they are trying to back fill some).

I reckon we'll see a huge loss of equipment options and what not if they hit it with their 'fix' stick. As if there ain't no kit.. well.. 

This doesn't bode well for any armies or models that rely on converting... Bye Bye weird, awesome militia. Bye Bye Artalax. Good bye Thunderhawk Transporter, we'll always remember you! 

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Please ignore, rumours already posted :)

Edited July 14, 2021 by Chapter Master Valrak

[MegaVolt87]

I'm just worried that GW will go through and strip out all the rules for OOP models and Characters that don't have models (which I think they will, hence they are trying to back fill some).

 

I reckon we'll see a huge loss of equipment options and what not if they hit it with their 'fix' stick. As if there ain't no kit.. well.. 

 

This doesn't bode well for any armies or models that rely on converting... Bye Bye weird, awesome militia. Bye Bye Artalax. Good bye Thunderhawk Transporter, we'll always remember you! 

 

My prediction is a complete cut of OOP stuff that doesn't get backfilled before or on final launch. OOP is then re-introduced as "new". For example, Kyr Vallen cut but gets a model when warzone Paramar expansion book comes out. Then a trickle back of other general OOP stuff through such books as "new" or plastics even depending. At a minimum I would like every legion to have its first captain available relatively soon for a new launch. 

[Gorgoff]

 

I'm just worried that GW will go through and strip out all the rules for OOP models and Characters that don't have models (which I think they will, hence they are trying to back fill some).

 

I reckon we'll see a huge loss of equipment options and what not if they hit it with their 'fix' stick. As if there ain't no kit.. well.. 

 

This doesn't bode well for any armies or models that rely on converting... Bye Bye weird, awesome militia. Bye Bye Artalax. Good bye Thunderhawk Transporter, we'll always remember you! 

 

My prediction is a complete cut of OOP stuff that doesn't get backfilled before or on final launch. OOP is then re-introduced as "new". For example, Kyr Vallen cut but gets a model when warzone Paramar expansion book comes out. Then a trickle back of other general OOP stuff through such books as "new" or plastics even depending. At a minimum I would like every legion to have its first captain available relatively soon for a new launch. 

 

If so they can go and :cuss themselves.

I will continue to play with my Kyr Vhalen, will continue to play against the weird Imperialis Militia of my buddy and will continue to use all the stuff we used to use for the last :cussing years. The Horus Heresy Community is a very dedicated stock of player who started the HH before FW supported it and will go back to that way of play if GW wants to give us the finger and try to handle us like they sadly handle 40k players.

We don't want power creep, we don't want hard restrictions on what I can play and we love our custom build models. 40k players doesn't want that as well but they are in the unfortunate position, that their game is designed to make just that. 

I won't go that path if GW tries to force that on us.

*goes on rambling like a mad man*

[Taliesin]

If the rumors are true then :

 

1) It would really suck to lose the Black Books , and I find the Warzone books so far to be not be particularly good at all, and thats not even comparing them to the far superior Black Books but even as a product on its own. Its 40 pages of lore and then 80 pages of rules stuff generally, with very, very little artwork.

 

2) It would mean not including The Dark Mechanicum in Crusade is an even bigger blow because that was clearly going into book 10 and now that would not happen either. Making it unclear when this complete write up they did would ever appear, giving me the Fires of Cyraxus feeling.

 

All in all, I hope this stuff is baseless, but this is now the second time rumors come up about the Black Books being phased out.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

I hope the Mech get some love. I'd love to play skitarri in an official capacity without relying on 3rd party like Mournival rules or Aus30k. Some Dark Mech sculpts would be awesome too, or at least 'upgrade' kits.

[Askari]

I coule see GW just relabeling a lot of the legion specific Praetors with the names of existing special characters to avoid cutting them from the rule book

[Gorgoff]

I coule see GW just relabeling a lot of the legion specific Praetors with the names of existing special characters to avoid cutting them from the rule book

What do you mean by that?

[armarnis]

That would make no sense and would instantly backfire

[Pacific81]

Well.. it had me until 'Xenos and great crusade armies'. At that point think the imagination of the writer got away with them. 

 

From what I have read, that rumour is from an unidentified source on Reddit (that is a new poster with no record of GW/40k comments previously). Considering that the source is unverified, it's quite incredible how strongly the community seems to have reacted to it. 

[jaxom]

Necromunda has done rules then models later. I wouldn’t worry too much in that regard.

[alexkon3]

Oooooof losing FW HH would make me sad. Moving to GW with plastic minis would ofcourse be better for the game at large but it still makes me sad. FW sculpts were always just better than GW stuff and looking at the weird proportions of the new Kriegers I cant get my hope up. Makes me even angrier when I remember that they cut Dark Mechanicus out of Crusade which was already lower quality then the other Black Books. This sadly also means I'm never gonna get my FW designed Hetaeron Guard, which is a big shame cause FW Custodes stuff is just so much cooler imo. 

 

What really breaks my heart tho is the loss of the Black Books. BB and IA books had way better and more interesting lore then anything GW released + it had beautiful artwork. you can feel that Alan is really missing here. Crusade was imo already a travesty being thinner and at the same time more expensive somehow.

 

The big problem is, that if GW takes it over, the quality will probably drop even more. The Warzone books I own are just full of reused art assets, or that weird modern cartoony art they use and simple pictures of models. This just pales by the comparison of the dedicated art of the HH and IA books, cause even if we got shots of models they were photo shopped to look like they were "real". War Zone books will never ever come close to that. No more Imperial Armour no more Heresy.... FW really did die with Alan Bligh sadly. RiP.

[Rejects of Anvilus]

 

I coule see GW just relabeling a lot of the legion specific Praetors with the names of existing special characters to avoid cutting them from the rule book

What do you mean by that?

 

I think the obvious one here would be the Iron Hands one who has the exact same equipment as Autek Mor

[Cris R]

Two things:

 

1) People pinning their hopes for Dark Mechanicum rules on the next Black Book aren't looking at other possibilities. It's entirely possible that Dark Mechanicum will appear in a new red book if Specialist Games and/or GW releases updated versions with the next version of Horus Heresy. The fluff and a special campaign can subsequently appear in a future campaign book, ensuring these players get that content down the road.

 

2) As others have noted, these rumors seem more tenuous than others and merit a more wary reception. One question I have is whether the poster mentioned the Warzone books simply because they were only familiar with 40k and the Warzone supplements were their point of reference for these expansions, overlooking at the way Specialist Games does campaigns for Adeptus Titanicus and Necromunda.

 

I can be completely wrong with both, but those are points worth keeping in mind, especially when it comes to whether Specialist Games will be the driving force for future 30k supplements and the format they'll use for those books.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Cris R

[Noserenda]

Id also say looking at recent releases, FW having a unique sculpting and painting style is long gone either way. AoD is currently drifting aimlessly, getting it properly stabled with Specialist games and moving forward is a purely positive thing.

[Sparika]

I don't really believe any of the rumors. Well, a boxset is coming, that's for sure but the rest ... We will see.

 

I hope they don't invalidate existing rules. The base rules are fine, the red books are fine. I play 40k since 2004 and I've still my v4, v5, v6, and v7 rulebook in a box somewhere and I hope my HH red books are not joining them. Invalidating the red books would be a shame. If that happen, I would be fine staying on the existing system for a while.

 

Maybe since all legions have been covered, the Horus Heresy project has run it's course even if it did not reach Terra ...

[Valkyrion]

You've got to imagine the Khan will be at the forefront of any 'reboot', no? He's the only one left and plays a big part in the Siege of Terra.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

Oooooof losing FW HH would make me sad. Moving to GW with plastic minis would ofcourse be better for the game at large but it still makes me sad. FW sculpts were always just better than GW stuff and looking at the weird proportions of the new Kriegers I cant get my hope up. Makes me even angrier when I remember that they cut Dark Mechanicus out of Crusade which was already lower quality then the other Black Books. This sadly also means I'm never gonna get my FW designed Hetaeron Guard, which is a big shame cause FW Custodes stuff is just so much cooler imo. 

 

What really breaks my heart tho is the loss of the Black Books. BB and IA books had way better and more interesting lore then anything GW released + it had beautiful artwork. you can feel that Alan is really missing here. Crusade was imo already a travesty being thinner and at the same time more expensive somehow.

 

The big problem is, that if GW takes it over, the quality will probably drop even more. The Warzone books I own are just full of reused art assets, or that weird modern cartoony art they use and simple pictures of models. This just pales by the comparison of the dedicated art of the HH and IA books, cause even if we got shots of models they were photo shopped to look like they were "real". War Zone books will never ever come close to that. No more Imperial Armour no more Heresy.... FW really did die with Alan Bligh sadly. RiP.

FW quality has gone by the way side as Noserenda had said. The hand sculpting of old is just dead at GW/FW aside from the Primarch series, and the painting style of old for the Heresy/Specialist games is also comatose/dead. We're now seeing a return to the old 'eavy metal way, which I believe has gotten worse over the years, in an attempt to make it more marketable. "Everyone can paint" and all that, with their contrast line push. 

 

The very same company that gave us beautiful things like;

 

 

and these;

 

 

....and THESE

 

 

...were also the very same company that gave us this steaming mess.

 

 

 

I swear that they just shoved a new sculptor into the chair and gave him a post it note with a description and told him them or her to go at it, without looking up references or previous and STILL sold merch, by them. The sleek wings of the heads from Sevatar and the Night Raptors is gone. Why? The technology for thin resin is there. The bulky chest and pad insignia do NOT match up at all with any other existing Night Lord insignia, OOP or not. The trophies feel stale and boring compared to the Night Raptors, yet the Praetor is the model worth more than half of what the Night Raptors are worth (35 USD to 66 USD). The hook on the chain mail loin cloth suddenly has removed several links behind it... something that is easily remedied digitally with CAD, which this was clearly sculpted on. There's no tarot card motfis, which are present on Sevatar, Curze, Night Lord Contemptor, and the old marine upgrade kit, even the Leviathan retains them (and I have my own issues with that kit too). 

 

The company that has had skulls in almost every kit across every range from their inception, has suddenly forgotten how to make an intimidating and scary skull, for a group/faction that is note worthy for having a skull as their emblem. Talk about the ball being dropped!

 

You're telling me a company that likes to flaunt itself as one of the best miniatures on the market, is less thorough than some of these stay-at-home sculptor studios are doing? 

 

Id also say looking at recent releases, FW having a unique sculpting and painting style is long gone either way. AoD is currently drifting aimlessly, getting it properly stabled with Specialist games and moving forward is a purely positive thing.

Aye, agreed. The style of old FW and GW are gone. I guarantee you, the THOUGHT of using pigments and airbrushing in their painting approach is gone. 

[Doctor Perils]

What time is the legion dispatch normally posted?

[Joe]

Time-wise it's variable, but it's usually around our current dates in the month.

 

• Thursday 15th April - Maloghurst
• Friday 14th May - Imperial Fist Praetors
• Friday 11th June - Argel Tal

If it's not today it'll be tomorrow - leaning on tomorrow. I've shot WarCom a message on Twitter as well to find out if it's still scheduled. Could be they've pushed it back to focus on KT / Orks.

[Ficinus]

The thing that most frightens me, whether GW takes over or not, is what happens to Militia and, to a lesser extent, Daemons of the Ruinstorm.  If the rules are updated, I could see those two lists languishing without updates forever, effectively eliminating them from the game.  I could also imagine an update where Militia become something closer to Guard in 30k, losing their unique feeling and build options.  This doesn't just apply to those lists but all the various "models without rules," many of which are likely to never get models: weird special characters from Book VI, all the different consuls, every weapon loadout on characters and on units.  40k has moved to a rules model that is incredibly limiting in how you build characters and units: hopefully this isn't the case for 30k.

[Darkwrath121]

What needs to be remembered is that 30k is its own team, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. When these rumours refer to GW taking over, assuming they're legit, they just would mean that GW is taking over the PRODUCTION of the core range like it does with Necromunda and Titanicus. That is almost entirely a good thing for the game as a whole.

 

GW 'taking over' has no impact on what the specialist games writers put in their games. Especially with how many Necromunda units and characters have rules but no models. Same principle here. Those modelless characters will be going nowhere. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there was a push to give them models to reduce how common it is (like with Maloghurst)

Edited July 15, 2021 by Darkwrath121

[Noserenda]

I suspect militia will remain in some form, its ultimately less work then creating a full Imperial army list and minis after all. Though FW have been a lot more cavalier previously about dumping things main GW isnt so much, worst case you get some form of legends which is fine if you arent dealing with WAAC types.

Daemons id be less sure of tbh, that list feels like a wacky experiment that most people are striving to pretend does not exist, Surveymonkey may have locked away the results of my survey behind a paywall but literally nobody noticed i had not included them from hundreds of applicants and i got a lot of questions from folks who misread (my admittedly rushed in places questions) about other obscure forces. So if they do return, its going to be big changes even if they dont revert to the Codex selections.

[Hfran Morkai]

Not going to lie I'm a little surprised at still radio silence from GW about the box leaks.

 

I get they've got other big things planned and they have just refused to acknowledge some things in the past until they were ready but this is BIG.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Hfran Morkai

[Brofist]

They've been radio silent about heresy for years, shouldn't be a surprise!