Wych Combat Drugs

[jgascoine011]

The mathhammer used to say that 3 hydra gauntlets and +1Attack was the best option.

With the change to the weapon options does anyone know what is best vs MEQ and vs T6+ Sv3+?

 

I am thinking that the S4 is now better

[WarriorFish]

I'm sure someone can pop some mathematics in to cover best builds/support/etc, but generally if you're concerned about Marines (or tougher) targets improving Strength is good - S4 makes a notable difference over S3. AP goes far against these targets too as they tend to have decent saves, but if you can't get wounds the AP becomes less of a factor for obvious reasons :P

[Angel of Death]

+1ATK: ~33 % more attacks. WS(3+) so 2/3 of these attacks hit.

+1STR: 50% wound rate against marines and T4, instead of ~33% wound rate.

[jgascoine011]

So i ran some quick numbers with both wyches and hellions.

I would run them with the blade artisans triggering on 5+ and PfP being 1 round higher in combat, as that way you could advance and charge turn 2, and get +1 to hit. So these numbers are assuming 10 wyches with razor flail, and 20 hellions, hitting on 2's, and 5+ to wound being AP-2. Also its assuming a 3+ save and no invun (so basically either a 4+ or 5+ save after AP)

 

 

So wyches

Against T4, the +1S does come out on top with about 9.8 vs 10.7 failed saves

Against T5, the +1 Attack comes out on top with 9.8 vs 7.7 failed saves.

Interestingly if you use stim overdose strat, the +1 attack does better than if you had used it on +1S.

Against T6/7, the +1S is better, with 4.9 vs 7.8 failed saves

 

Basically, if playing against marines/tanks take +1S, if playing against death guard, take +1A 

 

Hellions

Against T4+, the +1 A wins out but only just, 20.4 vs 19.4. Interestingly, both the +1A and +1S do exactly the same number of wounds, but because the ones that wound with the +1A do so at better AP they do slightly more damage.

Against T5+, the +1S wins out, but again, only just, 14.8 vs 15.3 failed saves (not damage).

Againt T6/7+, the +1 A wins by quite a bit, 14.8 vs 11.1

And finally vs T8, the +1 S wins, again by quite a bit 7.4 vs 11.1

 

So in contrast to the wyches, if playing against marines/tanks take +1A, if playing against deathguard/knights takes +1S.

However the benefits are so small, that i would almost be tempted to roll for their combat  drugs. I did the same numbers with no combat drugs and the difference between no drugs, +1A and +1S was not that significant that getting 2 drugs would be worth it in most situations

[Snazzy]

Unfortunately, the answer is complicated.

 

The addition of Blade Artisans creates different potential outcomes.  Here's two scenarios that assume no additional bonuses from Cult Obsessions.... so Red Greif.

 

10 Wyches w/Adrenalight: 51 attacks, 34 hits, 11.32 wounds, 5.56 of which would be at -2AP... 3.77 failed saves from Blade Artisans wounds, 1.85 unsaved wounds at standard -1AP.

10 Wyches w/Grave Lotus: 41 attacks, 27.3 hits, 13,65 wounds, 4.5 of which would be at -2AP...  1.5 failed saves from Blade Artisan wounds, 4.56 unsaved wounds at standard -1AP.

 

5.62 failed saves with +1A.

6.06 failed saves with +1S.

 

As usual, the difference is marginal and subject to outliers.  Your Cult bonus is going to make a difference, with most having a slant towards Adrenalight.

 

 

As far as Wych Weapons are concerned, Impalers are the only outright good ones.  Hydra Gauntlets are ok, but only benefit from +1S in a few scenarios, like facing T3 or 5.  Razorflails are basically a dead end, as they will give 6 attacks to a standard Wych; 2 more than usual, 4 with Adrenalight.  Neither one seems worth the points, to me.  They aren't spammable, or potent.  I would unironically consider an 11th Wych to put in a Raider over Wych Weapons.  It isn't until you factor in Cult bonuses or Bloodbride upgrades that they really start to work.