Warhawk by Chris Wraight

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I have felt for some time, that the 'old' lore was what was accepted in 40k.  10k years of drift.  Retelling by the victors.  Lies by the =][= and XX legion.  Loss of information and scribs taking liberties , ect.  Maybe there was an accurate record in the ' Black Library '.  Now we are getting to read those, like we are with that Inquisitor, who got access. Or maybe Ahriman.  I also feel part of that was international to mislead us.  I think all the hu-bub = profit for GW.  I do get it that they have had to change things for out of universe reasons but they gave themselves cover by having a 10k year gap. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

If you mean they’re intentionally changing things up a little as they’re writing the books, definitely. If you’re implying that they’ve been intentionally telling “wrong” stories for years, just so they can now reveal the truth, then you’re giving far, far too much credit.

[nagashnee]

Could it then not swing the other way? The old lore is 100% accurate and the BL books are in fact XX legio/I/badly told in universe stories.

[Scribe]

Why do you guys even ask? LOL.

 

 

 

Had Russ not had a moment of compassion Horus would have died and the Heresy with him. Had, had had, had....

Who wrote that?

IIRC it happened in Wolfsbane by Guy Haley. Russ hesitates after wounding Horus with the Emperor's spear that gives the target clarity, and for a moment Horus becomes his older self.

Ah, 3 issues there for me.

 

Haley, and a Wolves centric novel, and an event outside of the 'core' Heresy events.

[Subtleknife]

Has the sequel to warhawk been announced yet with dates for the LE?

[cheywood]

Has the sequel to warhawk been announced yet with dates for the LE?

It’s Echoes of Eternity by ADB. No official date yet, but Amazon has the regular edition listed for September. If that’s accurate we should see the LE in the next couple months.

 

Edit: This is assuming they’re back to doing a staggered release schedule. Otherwise both LE and hardcover would arrive in September.

Edited May 3, 2022 by cheywood

[Scribe]

 

Has the sequel to warhawk been announced yet with dates for the LE?

It’s Echoes of Eternity by ADB. No official date yet, but Amazon has the regular edition listed for September. If that’s accurate we should see the LE in the next couple months.

 

 

Dont give me hope!

[JeffJedi]

Things like Roboute breaking the Lion sword before Caliban seem like strange additions. Did the Lion lose because of a faulty repair on his sword? Why bother?

[Subtleknife]

Cheers Cheywood for the info

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

After rereading parts of this book, I finally see the Khan's big insult that pushed Mort over the edge. I had missed it the first tine thinking it was about Typhus being in charge. When he says Mort was weak and that he was tougher then him, I got shivers and had to put the book down. That's one of those zingers only some one close to you can say at the right time. Showing that his Legion strength was all lies. Brutal. Edited May 7, 2022 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[Scribe]

After rereading parts of this book, I finally see the Khan's big insult that pushed Mort over the edge. I had missed it the first tine thinking it was about Typhus being in charge. When he says Mort was weak and that he was tougher then him, I got shivers and had to put the book down. That's one of those zingers only some one close to you can say at the right time. Showing that his Legion strength was all lies. Brutal.

 

Yeah, thats the dig that hit home. About how he had endured it all and was still there.

[Moonreaper666]

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

[no I'm alpharius]

Maybe they've got snacks?

[Urauloth]

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

[Scribe]

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

 

 

I'd say one of the minor plot threads is that chaos has been with humanity for all of remembered (and mythologized) history, across not only Old Earth, but throughout the human populated galaxy after.

[jaxom]

 

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

 

 

I'd say one of the minor plot threads is that chaos has been with humanity for all of remembered (and mythologized) history, across not only Old Earth, but throughout the human populated galaxy after.

 

 

And its power waxes and wanes with belief. It could be that the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution put a damper on overt warp magics until Old Night brought back a critical mass of superstition.

[Scribe]

 

 

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

 

 

I'd say one of the minor plot threads is that chaos has been with humanity for all of remembered (and mythologized) history, across not only Old Earth, but throughout the human populated galaxy after.

 

 

And its power waxes and wanes with belief. It could be that the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution put a damper on overt warp magics until Old Night brought back a critical mass of superstition.

 

 

I think there was some of that, at least pushed early, but the hypocrisy and the lie of the 'Imperial Truth' eventually came to light.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

I'd say one of the minor plot threads is that chaos has been with humanity for all of remembered (and mythologized) history, across not only Old Earth, but throughout the human populated galaxy after.

And its power waxes and wanes with belief. It could be that the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution put a damper on overt warp magics until Old Night brought back a critical mass of superstition.

I think there was some of that, at least pushed early, but the hypocrisy and the lie of the 'Imperial Truth' eventually came to light.

Uraka the Headhunter is a Daemon Prince of Khorne from the Medieval Period

 

Considering he's still alive (and become a Daemon Prince at all) the Emperor clearly sucks at stopping Chaos from corrupting humanity

 

Honestly, most sentient species should have fallen to Chaos early in their development. Imagine how different Real-Life Wars would be if one side worshipped Chaos. (WW2 China using Possessed, Sorcery and Daemon Weapons would have curbstomped Japan)

 

Either French or Wraight said Chaos is Humanity and every other Living Being's inner nature or something like that

 

Chaos turned a normal, weak human like Uraka into an unkillable demigod. Humans, Orks, Eldar, Necrontyr/Necrons, Iron Men, Rak'gol, Hrud, etc. Even machine life would turn to Chaos as long as they want MORE.

 

Any species that craves power, greed and violence would be drawn to Chaos and in turn be rewarded by it. Real-life Slaves in both the past and present, Dark Eldar Forced-Laborers, Gretchins, Deformed Necrons, Damaged Sentient Machines. Plenty of people willing to damn their lives in exchange for POWER

 

The Emperor is deluded for thinking he could even stamp Chaos out. He couldn't even Permanently-Kill Doombreed or Gharguloth

[Scribe]

 

Considering he's still alive (and become a Daemon Prince at all) the Emperor clearly sucks at stopping Chaos from corrupting humanity

 

Either French or Wraight said Chaos is Humanity and every other Living Being's inner nature or something like that.

 

This is kind of the point of Master of Mankind.

 

The Emperor knew he couldnt stop Chaos. Its too much a part of the species, and yes I'm sure French AND Wraight have touched on this, just as Gav does in Luther.

 

The Emperor knows what Chaos is. He (imo likely) may even have made a deal with the Gods to create the Primarchs. He 100% knows whats up, and knows that its going to take 2 things.

 

1. A complete obliteration of faith/religion, even if it means genocide, and iron fisted tyranny to get it done.

2. Removal from dependency on the Warp for Travel.

 

Well, Lorgar screwed up 1, and Magnus screwed up 2, and so here we are. MoM states it as clear as it can be, the species is doomed. As it should remain.

 

Anything else beyond that, is just window dressing. Which is fine, great even in some books, but the main points remain.

 

Chaos is Humanity. Its us. Its our nature, our basic wiring. That it then is carried into the stars, and mutates, amplified, and was reflected back at us is all again part of the settings roots, its bones.

 

The story of 30K/40K, is the story of the Imperium and Chaos, and the fact they are 2 sides to the same coin of Humanity.

[Bobss]

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

 

 

I feel like if Chris Wraight was gonna do a Lords of Silence 2, he would've done it by now. Part of me wonders if the book was more about him getting to grips with the Death Guard in preparation for Warhawk + pumping out a Chaos Space Marine novel close to whatever Death Guard release there was in 2018

[DukeLeto69]

Moonreaper666 said: “Chaos turned a normal, weak human like Uraka into an unkillable demigod. Humans, Orks, Eldar, Necrontyr/Necrons, Iron Men, Rak'gol, Hrud, etc. Even machine life would turn to Chaos as long as they want MORE.”

 

A few points here:

 

1. Why do you include Men of Iron or Machine “Life”? Surely only sentient beings with emotions are impacted by Chaos? I know the Dark Mechanicum can bind daemons into machines create daemon engines but that is a byproduct not a species.

 

2. You are coming at Chaos as a purely evil (in our eyes) thing. While it is rarely talked about, “Chaos” is the emotions of sentient races manifesting within the Warp/Immaterium, but why would this be exclusively evil/bad emotions? What about good emotions?

 

Head canon territory but I don’t see why the “Pantheon” wouldn’t have “good Gods” as well as “bad Gods” and also worth noting that the “bad Gods” wouldn’t perceive themselves as either bad or good, they just are the collection of emotions that makes them manifest.

[cheywood]

 

 

 

 

So Sirens did exist in Ancient Terra. Strange that a Nurgle Daemon compared Nurgle's corruption to their call. Felt more of a Slaanesh things.

I'm pretty sure they're actual creatures that lived on Terra at some point, yes. They are probably psychic. I highly suspect that in WH40k canon a lot of ancient tales of beasts and monsters are legit and there used to be warp-influenced creatures on Old Earth. Maybe sirens, like navigators, were a kind of mutant?

 

Anyway, I loved Warhawk. I hope we see some more Death Guard from Wraight again soon, and I appreciate the effort he made at tying their uneven Heresy story threads together.

I feel like if Chris Wraight was gonna do a Lords of Silence 2, he would've done it by now. Part of me wonders if the book was more about him getting to grips with the Death Guard in preparation for Warhawk + pumping out a Chaos Space Marine novel close to whatever Death Guard release there was in 2018

Wraight’s a busy guy, but whenever he gets asked on Twitter he says he’d like to do a sequel.

[DarkChaplain]

Wraight's got so many projects to juggle, I'd expect a lack of desire or inspiration for a sequel to be at the bottom of the list of reasons why there hasn't been another book yet. Just look at the Wolves trilogy, which didn't fit into his schedule, and needed reassessment due to the fluff changes, but happened eventually. Honestly, I'm more confident in Chris getting around to writing the stuff he says he would like to than ADB or Abnett.

 

And let's not forget that even the second Agusto Zidarov novel for Warhammer Crime hasn't fit into his schedule yet.

 

Since Lords of Silence, he's written a bunch:

Vaults of Terra: The Hollow Mountain

Watchers of the Throne: The Regent's Shadow

Warhammer Crime: Bloodlines

The Helwinter Gate

Valdor: Birth of the Imperium and

Warhawk

 

On top of that a bunch of short stories, some of which tie directly into the novels. Work on some of the sequels seems to be happening in the background already, too. He may not be as prolific as Haley, but he's got plenty on his plate

[DukeLeto69]

As long as I get VoT3, WotT3, & Bloodlines 2 I will be happy!

[bluntblade]

Haven't been around for a long old time, so bumping this to say that a) I'm so happy the Scars stuck the landing and b) the Sigismund-Khârn duel is a thing of terrible beauty.