GW and pricing, there's a problem.

[NovemberIX]

I think GW is a few price increases away from causing a boom in 3D printer ownership. The online marketplaces are awash in great and inspired 3rd party models, commissions and conversion pieces that match or even exceed what's coming from the main studio. The printers today can pop out smooth crisply detailed figures out in a matter of hours. I mean 3 boxes of Heavy Intercessors is enough to buy a quality small SLA/DLP resin printer and enough resin to build a fair sized infantry force, ignoring all the other benefits of 3D printer ownership.

[Halandaar]

Covid and brexit are real and cause problems, but I thought they said their sales and profits are at an all time high? Kind of negates those excuses.

Covid and Brexit were offered as the explanation as to why overall production volume is down a d third-party retailers are severely restricted in the quantity of goods they can order in. Nothing more.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Covid and brexit are real and cause problems, but I thought they said their sales and profits are at an all time high? Kind of negates those excuses.

Covid and Brexit were offered as the explanation as to why overall production volume is down a d third-party retailers are severely restricted in the quantity of goods they can order in. Nothing more.

As those 2 problems are dealt with in theory their sales will probably up even more...which further undermines the justification for price increases

[Joe]

There was the added issue of shipping prices sky-rocketing around the start of this year, which another user flagged a few weeks ago - something like a container jumping from £2000 to £20,000 due to artificial scarcity or somesuch. Brexit is a long-running issue as well, and will have financial ramifications for years to come.

[Halandaar]

 

 

Covid and brexit are real and cause problems, but I thought they said their sales and profits are at an all time high? Kind of negates those excuses.

Covid and Brexit were offered as the explanation as to why overall production volume is down a d third-party retailers are severely restricted in the quantity of goods they can order in. Nothing more.

As those 2 problems are dealt with in theory their sales will probably up even more...which further undermines the justification for price increases

Not necessarily; GW benefited from Covid to the extent that a huge amount of people were stuck at home with most of their other time and money sinks unavailable to them. As it becomes a less pressing issue its impact on their production will obviously recede, but also people will have more options for how to spend their time and money. You would think that overall demand will decrease as a result.

 

As for Brexit, that isn't really something that can be "dealt with", it's a permanent change to import/export relationship between GWs production facility and a huge number of its customers (and presumably suppliers too). Those cost increases are permanent.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

GW diversifying their product lines is their response to our pricing complaints when you think about it. We just are buying less, but the thing is we are still buying which is what is really important for them anyway. Boycotting is useless, I would encourage more disciplined spending instead of spending just for the sake of spending/ impulse buying which I notice is a thing for many in the GW hobby.

apparently we aren't buying less and 2020 was apparently one of their best years ever

[INKS]

Prices always go up, not down. 

Truth is, this has always been an expensive hobby. It's just getting to the point where I am priced out. 

Cdn dollars mind you but that is what I earn so:

50 dollars for Lelith Hesperax - 1 model.

75 dollars for Heavy Intercessors - 5 models.

60 dollars for Flayed ones - 5 models.

60 dollars for 1 codex

 

We are paying more and more for less and less. Sucks but that is the way it is. Honestly I can't keep up. I can't afford to put together 2000 points. Not to mention to cost of paint, paint brushes, glue, other modeling supplies. Plus the rule book, plus codex. 

 

I could go on and on but it's a hobby and it's a luxury and many people can afford it. I just can't. I've been looking into things like kill team a lot where you need less models to play but even then getting some of the proper competitive setups require a lot of models you don't really need.

[Valkyrion]

Ebay and the second hand markets is the only way to 'hurt' GW - buying BNIB from a 3rd party might mitigate the cost to yourself but they are still paying the trade prices to buy from GW, so GW still make the money. 

[Redcomet]

Ya, people still do, and I think we should boycott. 2 weeks of their sales crashing might be enough to make the point.

 

Price should reflect cost to produce though often it seems like you're also paying a premium for the rules that go along with stronger units.

You will never get enough people to do this

[sarabando]

the prices always going up and never down bit annoys me especially with the older models. Theres no way in hell catachans or rhinos havent recooped all their costs over and over. Every other hobby ive ever been a part of the older stuff gets cheaper (then usually replaced) but we have kits that came out when i was new (hell we have minis that came out before i started 26 years ago SW rune priest in termi armour) its mad.

 

But as others have said while a growing amount of people are waking up and saying enough is enough, while all the 3d printing groups and discords are blowing up with new members every day and while the sales groups are always bustlying SOMEONE will always be happy to pay the GW price. I know people in my own town who will only shop at GW not walk the 30 meters or so to the FLGS up the street and get a 20% discount on the same minis.

 

The bubble will burst it has to i cant see anyway GW keeps this up.

[Dark Shepherd]

The price increases on what is clearly existing stock always hurts.

 

@Halandaar yeah theres a trade off of if they can ship out/produce more stuff v what people do post covid. The post covid aspect is tied up with price hikes too. Hopefully Brexit changes are at least adapted to.

 

They might also save on shipping when everyone gets the ship to store option back.

 

I'll start to get worried if they still release 10th edition in 2023 along with some primarchs

[Lucien Eilam]

What exactly is the problem?

It doesn’t seem to be a problem for Games Workshop. Sales are at an all-time high and demand is such that they struggle to keep half the range in stock. If anything, they might have fewer problems if they increased prices even farther.

It doesn’t seem to be a problem for the health of the community, because those sales are founded on more people than ever before being involved in the hobby.

 

Is it as simple and ignoble as “my disposable income doesn’t allow me to buy as many toys as I want, as fast as I want to buy them”?

 

The bubble will burst it has to i cant see anyway GW keeps this up.

 
If you’ve been in the hobby for 26 years, you really should know better by now.  
 
23rd June 1995:
 

I just feel the need to write this post. If you are like me, you probably
enjoy one (or more) of GW's games. However, I have been getting very tired
of GW trying to squeeze every penny out of gamers who are good enough to
support their products.

30 June 1995:
 

IMHO the only way to get the attention of GW is to hit them where it
hurts, in the pocketbook. The best way I can think of to do this is to
initiate a buyers strike against GW products. The only reason they are
able to charge the price they do is that WE, THE CONSUMER, ARE WILLING
TO PAY THE PRICE! If gamers out there would come together and refuse
to purchase GW products, whether they be miniatures, rule books, or
boxed games, for a period of one month, I think that would send a
fairly strong message of dissent to the people at GW.

29 June 1995:
 

All of you that are complaining about GW. If you really want to do
something, organize. Personally for now I will go on buying and playing
the Warhammers'. But if a serious effort was made to get GW to listen I
would particapate. You have a powerful tool at your fingertips. The
Internet. You can reach thousands of gamers. And a concerted and directed
boycott should make a dent in GW's armor.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I'm seeing a lot of outrage over the pricing of Heavy Intercessors. Were people expecting to get 5 models for the same price as the 3-pack of Gravis Aggressors or something? Those models cost EVEN MORE than Heavy Intercessors per model.

[jarms48]

Prices always go up, not down. 

Truth is, this has always been an expensive hobby. It's just getting to the point where I am priced out. 

Cdn dollars mind you but that is what I earn so:

50 dollars for Lelith Hesperax - 1 model.

75 dollars for Heavy Intercessors - 5 models.

60 dollars for Flayed ones - 5 models.

60 dollars for 1 codex

 

We are paying more and more for less and less. Sucks but that is the way it is. Honestly I can't keep up. I can't afford to put together 2000 points. Not to mention to cost of paint, paint brushes, glue, other modeling supplies. Plus the rule book, plus codex. 

 

I could go on and on but it's a hobby and it's a luxury and many people can afford it. I just can't. I've been looking into things like kill team a lot where you need less models to play but even then getting some of the proper competitive setups require a lot of models you don't really need.

 

I've totally been priced out. I live in Australian and a Cadian infantry squad box is $54 for a 10 man squad. For a horde army... Now they're adding the upgrade sprue into it and I can only imagine that being a justification for GW to increase them to minimum $60 AUD. I'm actually shocked at the prices compared to when I first started. 

 

I remember the old Cadian Battleforce box. You got 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, and a building for $150 bucks. The new Cadian Defence Force box is 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, a Chimera, and a Command Squad for $270. I could literally buy 2 of the old Battleforce boxes for nearly double the infantry count. Sure I don't get any Chimeras or Officers, but you could do some head swaps with the old vehicle upgrade kit or the heavy weapon team heads to make any necessary officers. Then just shave the sergeant chevrons off of the chainsword and you're done. 

 

I literally don't see how I can justify $54 AUD for 10 plastic miniatures when I could take my partner out to dinner or a movie for that. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by jarms48

[MegaVolt87]

 

Prices always go up, not down. 

Truth is, this has always been an expensive hobby. It's just getting to the point where I am priced out. 

Cdn dollars mind you but that is what I earn so:

50 dollars for Lelith Hesperax - 1 model.

75 dollars for Heavy Intercessors - 5 models.

60 dollars for Flayed ones - 5 models.

60 dollars for 1 codex

 

We are paying more and more for less and less. Sucks but that is the way it is. Honestly I can't keep up. I can't afford to put together 2000 points. Not to mention to cost of paint, paint brushes, glue, other modeling supplies. Plus the rule book, plus codex. 

 

I could go on and on but it's a hobby and it's a luxury and many people can afford it. I just can't. I've been looking into things like kill team a lot where you need less models to play but even then getting some of the proper competitive setups require a lot of models you don't really need.

 

I've totally been priced out. I live in Australian and a Cadian infantry squad box is $54 for a 10 man squad. For a horde army... Now they're adding the upgrade sprue into it and I can only imagine that being a justification for GW to increase them to minimum $60 AUD. I'm actually shocked at the prices compared to when I first started. 

 

I remember the old Cadian Battleforce box. You got 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, and a building for $150 bucks. The new Cadian Defence Force box is 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, a Chimera, and a Command Squad for $270. I could literally buy 2 of the old Battleforce boxes for nearly double the infantry count. Sure I don't get any Chimeras or Officers, but you could do some head swaps with the old vehicle upgrade kit or the heavy weapon team heads to make any necessary officers. Then just shave the sergeant chevrons off of the chainsword and you're done. 

 

I literally don't see how I can justify $54 AUD for 10 plastic miniatures when I could take my partner out to dinner or a movie for that. 

 

 

I have to say, price rises hurt more when we are paying for ancient, tired kits. The cadian upgrade is literally putting lipstick on a pig. 

[Beaky Brigade]

Yeah pricing threads are as old as pricing increases, a yearly occurrence across multiple boards and you could pretty much just re-run the old threads rather than have a new discussion. I remember on another board it go so toxic that all pricing complaints were consolidated into one mega thread and were banned anywhere else.

It's worth considering that if a threshold is reached where you can no longer afford the minis you want then there will be plenty of people in different circumstances who haven't been able to for a while or never have been able to. It's worth having a little empathy rather just seeing it as a personal attack on your wallet.

Enjoy the minis you have, acquiring is definitely the least satisfying part of the hobby (long term). Paint your backlog or buy used or competitor products. Nearly all my GW purchases this year have been hobby products to complete the minis I have. Don't get caught up in the hype cycle for new products.

If you are worried about GW's practices affecting their business long term it would be better to become a shareholder as they'll never take pricing complaints from individual consumers seriously. Otherwise it's pretty much their job to keep getting new people into the hobby and they have whole departments of people to do this.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

Prices always go up, not down.

Truth is, this has always been an expensive hobby. It's just getting to the point where I am priced out.

Cdn dollars mind you but that is what I earn so:

50 dollars for Lelith Hesperax - 1 model.

75 dollars for Heavy Intercessors - 5 models.

60 dollars for Flayed ones - 5 models.

60 dollars for 1 codex

 

We are paying more and more for less and less. Sucks but that is the way it is. Honestly I can't keep up. I can't afford to put together 2000 points. Not to mention to cost of paint, paint brushes, glue, other modeling supplies. Plus the rule book, plus codex.

 

I could go on and on but it's a hobby and it's a luxury and many people can afford it. I just can't. I've been looking into things like kill team a lot where you need less models to play but even then getting some of the proper competitive setups require a lot of models you don't really need.

I've totally been priced out. I live in Australian and a Cadian infantry squad box is $54 for a 10 man squad. For a horde army... Now they're adding the upgrade sprue into it and I can only imagine that being a justification for GW to increase them to minimum $60 AUD. I'm actually shocked at the prices compared to when I first started.

 

I remember the old Cadian Battleforce box. You got 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, and a building for $150 bucks. The new Cadian Defence Force box is 20 Guardsmen, 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, a Leman Russ, a Chimera, and a Command Squad for $270. I could literally buy 2 of the old Battleforce boxes for nearly double the infantry count. Sure I don't get any Chimeras or Officers, but you could do some head swaps with the old vehicle upgrade kit or the heavy weapon team heads to make any necessary officers. Then just shave the sergeant chevrons off of the chainsword and you're done.

 

I literally don't see how I can justify $54 AUD for 10 plastic miniatures when I could take my partner out to dinner or a movie for that.

€ and other customers were getting getting hammered on currency conversion rates too, it definitely drove people away from direct GW sales to buying from UK 3rd parties, which hurts GWs bottom line. Their conversion rates were pre absorbing increased shipping costs.

 

Some Element Games/FLGS stuff can come to 30-35% between their discount and paying in sterling (at checkout).

 

One of their recent investor reports said they were making a few million profit in currency conversions alone.

 

The GW currncy conversion rate did improve a little the past year but its still perilously close to a pre Brexit peak eurocrisis rate

[Valkyrion]

I think there have been a few price drops on replacement models - the old undead Blood Knights were I think £60 for 5 and the new ones are £40, for example - and I think there is a definite trend in newer factions/releases to move away from horde armies. You can see this more clearly in AoS than 40k, granted. 

 

But looking at the heavy intercessors then the price has dramatically skewed upwards beyond the value of the models themselves.

Taking un-upgraded SM troops choices you have £35 for 210 points (incursors), £35 for 240 points (infiltrators), £35 for 200 points (intercessors), £30 for 180 points (tactical squad), £36.50 for 190 points (assault intercessors) and finally £39.50 for 140 points (heavy intercessors).

So you have infiltrators at one end being 14.5 pence per point, to heavy intercessors being 28.2 pence per point - double, or in other words, it should be £39.50 for 10, not 5.

Once you add on unit upgrades this discrepancy only grows.

 

I think it was Jervis in a WD a while back (like, years) said that models were often priced in money according to their in game value - a terminator squad was effectively double the cost of a tactical squad because terminators were twice as good, a Land Raider was £50 because at 250 points it was a sixth of the value of your 1500 point army so you're unlikely to have more than 1 or 2, your captain is £15 because you're only going to have one of them and so on. 

 

So the new heavy intercessors are massively overcosted compared to their in game worth.

 

However - all that said, they are actually priced more appropriately when compared to other 5 man boxes - un-upgraded scouts, SGV and VGV, assault squad (not counting devastator squad as one wouldn't buy them to use naked...) are all 28-35 pence per point (SGV being the worst) with only terminators representing 'good' value. 

 

So yeah, on the points per pence effectiveness scale they are overcosted, yet number of models per point they are fairly costed.  huh.

[INKS]

You are 100% right, that is worse. Personally I was using examples I seen form the preorder page.

I'm seeing a lot of outrage over the pricing of Heavy Intercessors. Were people expecting to get 5 models for the same price as the 3-pack of Gravis Aggressors or something? Those models cost EVEN MORE than Heavy Intercessors per model.

[Lord Marshal]

Space Marine pricing appears to be in a somewhat unique bubble of it's own. Whilst Primaris models are a bit bigger than most, the Death Guard just about reach their size in height and width, yet their non-Terminator individuals and vehicles are typically cheaper than equivalent Primaris. Sure, newer kits across the board are more expensive overall but loyalist Marines do seem to be in their own sort of bubble that keeps them higher.

 

My uneducated and no probably common theory is just that for every person they 'price out' with things like Heavy Intercessors, Marines are popular and clamoured for enough that they likely make up for whatever loss was incurred by that small amount of dropoff. So when, say, the Aledari Soulgardiun Shardsplitter (or whatever) comes out at around £23.50, whichever Primaris character comes after will move up to the next price bracket (EG £25.50) and so on. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Lord Marshall I think they keep the loyalist marine stuff a bit more expensive because they put marines in so many battle boxes. It makes the savings seem better, and they're frequent enough to give marines really good entry points.

[Joe]

And that week or two is the difference between a LGS being in business or not. It's needlessly reckless.

[armarnis]

get yourself an resin 3d printer.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

get yourself an resin 3d printer.

if I was tech save enough to run the splitter program or whatever it's called I totally would.

Would also need to learn to 3D model HIs or just wait until someone else does

And that week or two is the difference between a LGS being in business or not. It's needlessly reckless.

most LGSes have used stuff you can still buy, or support them by checking out a new game system while you boycott GW.

[armarnis]

heavy intercessors were done a few days after they were shown for the first time... there are files to buy for them that set you back not even 10$ and you can print til you grow tired of them. also free variants around

Edited May 23, 2021 by armarnis