GW and pricing, there's a problem.

[Noserenda]

I was talking net profit on individual items, they made more profit selling an item to a third party than in direct sales. Now this is prior (and probably a big reason for) to the massive cost cutting initiatives a few years back which i suspect have shifted those margins a bit, and the major drag on that is the retail chain which is primarily an advertising, recruitment and retention cost really. 

Similarly though, GW was very keen on local games stores that provide something to the community like gaming space and clubs because that also benefits them and its free! :D Thats the primary reason GW does not go to war with its stockists, the small gains on a few extra direct sales just arent worth burning those bridges and promoters.

Age wise in my day the primary target was always the 16-30 male market, a lot of attention is paid to 12+ to get them on board because once you get those hooks into someone they will often slip in and out of the hobby for life but they arent what really drives sales day to day. Under 12's in the UK at least were not because thats a whole legal/insurance category shift and really begins to be a liability in a hobby which involves so many solvents and sharp tools :D That may vary by region obviously.

[Vermintide]

Direct sales certainly have a better margin, but margin, gross sales and net profit have a very complex relationship. Chasing margin alone is rarely a viable strategy.

 

GW doesn't want to neglect third parties too much because the diversity gives them broader exposure, it offers inherent resilience in that people who don't want to buy directly still have a channel available, it allows them to put products out in locations where it might not be viable to build stores of their own, the list goes on and on.

 

If GW were to sell direct only, they would basically only be selling to a single demographic: People who are already into Warhammer, and people who have seen Warhammer memes on the internet. In reality they still need to support the existence of the wider gaming "scene" for their own good.

[Lord Marshal]

Does anyone know what GW's actual target demographics are?

I feel like it's males 14-24 for some reason

 

It definitely used to be 12+'s/young teens. A few former staffers have attested to it over the years and they've always run a lot of kid-friendly workshops and used to have 'Veterans Nights' for 16+'s which suggested to me the rest of the time they wanted the Lil Timmies.

 

However unless pocket money really went up with inflation, I just don't see how they can really target that demographic anymore. We're well past £6-£9 impulse buy blisters. Then again, I've seen kids set £200 worth of stuff aside for when their parents come in to pay for it so maybe I'm naïve and their target isn't so much Lil Timmies, but Lil Timmies with wealthy parents. 

 

Otherwise, I'd have guessed their primary, actual demographic is middle-class dudes working in IT between 18-40, at least based on what I've seen around the 'net and met in-person. When I was younger, most people in GW stores were teenagers (12-18) but the median definitely seems to have gotten older now, although I don't frequent them so I couldn't say how accurate that was.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[Noserenda]

The demographics hanging around a store all day are pretty different to the ones you target for sales. I mean for one thing an adult with the time to hang around a store all day probably doesn't have any money :D Like i said its about bedding GW deep in their subconscious as a good time.

[Joe]

Otherwise, I'd have guessed their primary, actual demographic is middle-class dudes working in IT between 18-40, at least based on what I've seen around the 'net and met in-person. When I was younger, most people in GW stores were teenagers (12-18) but the median definitely seems to have gotten older now, although I don't frequent them so I couldn't say how accurate that was.

LEGO is in a similar vein, from what I recall. Whilst the apparent target audience would be younger children to early teenagers there's been a burgeoning adult scene for some years now, and this has largely been reflected in the more advanced kits and licensed partnerships - i.e. Architecture, Stranger Things and so on.

 

It does help that certain hobbies have become more socially acceptable for adults to be part of now. I remember a time when older hobbyists were roundly mocked in the fandom, whereas now they are often looked to in a more positive fashion.

[Stofficus]

 

Otherwise, I'd have guessed their primary, actual demographic is middle-class dudes working in IT between 18-40, at least based on what I've seen around the 'net and met in-person. When I was younger, most people in GW stores were teenagers (12-18) but the median definitely seems to have gotten older now, although I don't frequent them so I couldn't say how accurate that was.

LEGO is in a similar vein, from what I recall. Whilst the apparent target audience would be younger children to early teenagers there's been a burgeoning adult scene for some years now, and this has largely been reflected in the more advanced kits and licensed partnerships - i.e. Architecture, Stranger Things and so on.

 

It does help that certain hobbies have become more socially acceptable for adults to be part of now. I remember a time when older hobbyists were roundly mocked in the fandom, whereas now they are often looked to in a more positive fashion.

 

 

There's an instructor at the military intelligence school here who uses 40k as an introduction to trying to get into the head of an opponent. Certainly has normalized a great deal. 

 

I would say though that the "lil timmy" angle was very strongly pushed during the Dark Times, but GW certainly seems more willing to entertain getting the more adult crowd's attention - what was the Sisters revamp but an attempt to capitalize on the "veteran hobbyist" sector? 

 

Even the rules seem tailored to trying to pull at nostalgia, with all the faction rules and such. 

 

That being said, it's nowhere near as cleared defined as the Lego approach - they have very clearly focused brands on kids, and those for adults - just look at the Ultimate Collector Series marketing, it's all middle aged dudes looking smug at their Star Destroyer taking up an entire dining table. 

[Claws and Effect]

I'm playing more 30k these days because of the blatant cash grab GW has been doing the last couple years.

 

Psychic Awakening was the catalyst for me. New rules for factions that GW swore up, down, and sideways were written with 9th edition in mind. So we ended up buying most of the books to the tune of $40 each.

 

Then the codex factions started dropping and they flat out said the rules in Psychic Awakening were invalidated. My wife's Blood Angels got some new relics, then they were taken away 4 months later.

 

30k may be more expensive, but at least I know I'm not going to have to buy a new book every 3 months to keep playing it.

 

Model cost going up and rules bloat (that they told us wasn't going to happen) are my primary reasons for not really doing much with 40k lately.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Otherwise, I'd have guessed their primary, actual demographic is middle-class dudes working in IT between 18-40, at least based on what I've seen around the 'net and met in-person. When I was younger, most people in GW stores were teenagers (12-18) but the median definitely seems to have gotten older now, although I don't frequent them so I couldn't say how accurate that was.

LEGO is in a similar vein, from what I recall. Whilst the apparent target audience would be younger children to early teenagers there's been a burgeoning adult scene for some years now, and this has largely been reflected in the more advanced kits and licensed partnerships - i.e. Architecture, Stranger Things and so on.

 

It does help that certain hobbies have become more socially acceptable for adults to be part of now. I remember a time when older hobbyists were roundly mocked in the fandom, whereas now they are often looked to in a more positive fashion.

 

 

There's an instructor at the military intelligence school here who uses 40k as an introduction to trying to get into the head of an opponent. Certainly has normalized a great deal. 

 

I would say though that the "lil timmy" angle was very strongly pushed during the Dark Times, but GW certainly seems more willing to entertain getting the more adult crowd's attention - what was the Sisters revamp but an attempt to capitalize on the "veteran hobbyist" sector? 

 

Even the rules seem tailored to trying to pull at nostalgia, with all the faction rules and such. 

 

That being said, it's nowhere near as cleared defined as the Lego approach - they have very clearly focused brands on kids, and those for adults - just look at the Ultimate Collector Series marketing, it's all middle aged dudes looking smug at their Star Destroyer taking up an entire dining table. 

 

Actually, I think the Timmy experience then vs now is important IMO. Back in the good old days as a young timmy, I remember dumping that b'day stack + christmas stack straight on new 40k stuff and any pocket money I managed to save, got me a lot of miniatures. I often wonder if that's enough these days for the new timmy's to get a 2k pts army in one year. 

[Dark Shepherd]

Theres also an element of (subtley) appealing to parents, who hold the purse strings for timmy, as there is with a lot of marketing in geneal (WWE is a good example of this too)

 

Be it nostalgia, thinking things are cool, even Sisters

[GreenScorpion]

One typical rule of marketing for children or teens is to appeal directly to them and not their parents, because kids persuade their parents if you appealed to them.

Many parents are willing to spend more money if the request came from the kids rather than if they consider buying it themselves (some just want the kid to shut up :D ).

Obviously, you can't appeal only to a younger audience, as young minds are easily swayed away by the newest fashionable thing and in most countries miniatures are still not a cool hobby for young people, although acceptable for older people for some reason.

So GW's tactic has been mostly hitting those buttons, getting kids to make their parents open their wallets and get older people to be interested in the hobby and spending their savings for some hobby time. I would say many of the black library and miniature combinations are likely to be more targetted at adults.

[Vermintide]

It's probably true to say that GW's marketing, while not aimed directly at kids, certainly does what it can to keep the hobby open and welcoming to kids. It's a long term strategy, they know the product they sell is fundamentally THE coolest thing a certain demographic of 10-13 year old boys has ever seen, and they'd be foolish not to capitalise on it, but that they won't be reliable customers for long.

 

They also know that if you get into this stuff at that age, you're much more likely to come back as an adult. Hands up if you started playing as a young teen, put it down for ten years or so while you went to college, discovered girls, started your career and so on, then came back as an adult with plenty of disposable income to waste? I would honestly say that applies to like 90% of the Warhammer players I know IRL.

 

The youngsters are high turnover, but the adults who stick with it are the real customer base. Not only that but I think there's an element of exploiting the "whales" here; those guys out there who will drop $1500 on a full new army every time the meta shifts. I really don't imagine there are too many of those in reality, but if they spend enough money, there don't need to be many of them. The existence of commission painting services probably wouldn't be a viable full time business without a significant number of those people.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It's probably true to say that GW's marketing, while not aimed directly at kids, certainly does what it can to keep the hobby open and welcoming to kids. It's a long term strategy, they know the product they sell is fundamentally THE coolest thing a certain demographic of 10-13 year old boys has ever seen, and they'd be foolish not to capitalise on it, but that they won't be reliable customers for long.

 

They also know that if you get into this stuff at that age, you're much more likely to come back as an adult. Hands up if you started playing as a young teen, put it down for ten years or so while you went to college, discovered girls, started your career and so on, then came back as an adult with plenty of disposable income to waste? I would honestly say that applies to like 90% of the Warhammer players I know IRL.

 

The youngsters are high turnover, but the adults who stick with it are the real customer base. Not only that but I think there's an element of exploiting the "whales" here; those guys out there who will drop $1500 on a full new army every time the meta shifts. I really don't imagine there are too many of those in reality, but if they spend enough money, there don't need to be many of them. The existence of commission painting services probably wouldn't be a viable full time business without a significant number of those people.

i guess the question is, what's more important to them in general? High turn over but fresh blood? Or the long timers who are stable customers.

A mix is the best and pretty much necessary for any for profit endeavor but some industries do better with regular customers as their base income and some do better with a high turn over model.

 

For example, the high turn over model means a lot of faith large number of purchases for decent profits regularly. To start a BA army it's going to cost at least $285 just for the basics.(BRB, codex, supplement, CP box) as a minimum, and you can expect at least another $100 on top of that for many if not most just starting that year, and that's not including paints, brushes, glue, and clippers.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Malios]

Even compared to the more established competition, there is no disputing that GW's products are still amazing quality. And plastic! You don't know how much of a blessing plastic is to work with until you come back tonit after playing with resin and metal for a prolonged time. I just wanted to acknowledge that first.

 

I still keep my foot in the door with Necromunda / Inq28 and Gorkamorka as a hobby project (yeah I'm one of those hobbyists now), but I'm happy to admit that I jumped ship to other gaming systems like Infinity and won't look back.

 

The reason for the jump was multi-factorial:

 

* Price, as an Australian hobbyist especially, was a significant factor. I don't need to elaborate further.

 

* GW are still selling kits that are 20+ years old and charging an arm + a leg for them. $54 AUD for 10 Catachan models, when back in 2000 you could buy 20 of the same sculpts for $40. And you need to spend a minimum of $216 AUD to fulfill your mandatory requirements for an average game of models whose sculpts are 20+ years old (yes you don't have to and can go with the slightly newer Cadian shock troops who are only 17ish years old for the same price). Yes its a testament to the quality / iconic nature of the sculpts, but GW not retiring these kits and factions hurts their game systems alot too.

 

* The insistence by GW that you have to purchase rules and codexes. As a space marine player, I would have spent $254 AUD just on codexes since 2017. That doesn't include core books, chapter approved 2018 - 2021, chapter-specific supplements or a subscription to the warhammer app for your army builder. And honestly, the errors and need to FAQ the codexes despite that price is... Yet another flogged horse. In comparison, Corvus Belli have an app that's free for Infinity that includes your army builder and links to a free wiki site for rules. So the money you spent just on rules can almost purchase you an entire sectorial of Infinity miniatures. The money you'd actually spend on your 40k army then buys you a second army to introduce your mate to Infinity and a table of dense terrain to play on.

 

* I've been in the hobby for 21 years. GW's gaming systems haven't changed that much in 21 years. Seeing what else is out there made me realise that there are gaming systems with different ideas. Some of those ideas are actually better ideas. The ARO system used in Infinity. The random activation mechanic introduced in Bolt Action and later adapted by Star Wars Legion and half of the tabletop games out there. These more... Interactive... gaming systems flow smoother then GW's aged back and forth play.

 

* Concurrently, GW's hobby systems haven't changed much either in 21 years. Their paints have changed manufacturer and names a few times, and have also exponentially increased in price (and in my opinion their base and layer paints have dropped in quality.) In comparison, 3rd party hobby brands like vallejo, Scale 75 etc are price matched as an industry and often half the price of the GW equivalent. The quality of these brands are often better too pending personal taste, considering they don't just cater to wargamers.

 

* I'm also moving away from Black Library slowly. Its obvious that bar a few diamonds in the rough that black library are books written to a release schedule these days rather then to explore the potential of the IP that is both 40k and AoS. Many of the recent books, particularly the eBook versions, feel significantly overpriced for whats essentially a miniatures catalogue as a result.

 

So yeah... in the end I jumped ship and have decided to vote with my wallet. Multiple reasons why, but price was a significant one. [Edit] I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm not really GW's target demographic these days though: I was their demographic during the dark kirby era, which might explain alot!

Edited May 30, 2021 by Malios

[Dam13n]

This thread is going on a time out while I clean it up. If you cannot play nicely, this is what happens.

 

I will be trawling through the thread, removing any post that does not meet the standards expected here at the B&C or have strayed from the actual topic, over the next few minutes.

 

It will be re-opened after I'm sufficiently happy that the topic is free of the posts that necessitated this action.

 

Edit: Topic re-opened. A few off-topic and/or unnecessary posts have been removed.

 

It bears saying that, should this thread require further action, it may be deemed to have outlived its usefulness entirely. Play nicely and stay on target, please.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Dam13n

[NovemberIX]

I think with all the discussion of sales channels and target demographics we might be ignoring a rather large detail. GW and it's style of wargaming has only existed for 40 some odd years. While it's methodologies that prey on nostalgia work right now, the new generation of kids coming up in the last 10 years to today probably won't have the same emotional attachment thus my worry is GW will end up like Harley-Davidson of today.

 

I honestly don't think GW is directly marketing to a new youth market, a lot of recent moves just reek of nostalgia baiting. Sisters being number one, meme-y jokes about plastic Thunderhawks, and resetting squat clocks are jokes and references aimed at old hands, saying, hey, we see and hear you. Which in turn makes it more palatable to spend 30-50 bucks on a box of models. I mean let's be honest, you can market at kids all you want but it's not like most of them have money, not every little Jimmy can pester their parent's into spending triple digits on a new hobby day 1, and the kids that are earning their own money probably have more important priorities. My main worry is that in the chase to find constant growth for shareholders year after year we'll get to a point where these price rises are trying to bleed a stone. If you have the finances to spend more for less year after year, more power to you, for me, I've already started planning on a different way to get my kicks.

[Stofficus]

I think with all the discussion of sales channels and target demographics we might be ignoring a rather large detail. GW and it's style of wargaming has only existed for 40 some odd years. While it's methodologies that prey on nostalgia work right now, the new generation of kids coming up in the last 10 years to today probably won't have the same emotional attachment thus my worry is GW will end up like Harley-Davidson of today.

 

I honestly don't think GW is directly marketing to a new youth market, a lot of recent moves just reek of nostalgia baiting. Sisters being number one, meme-y jokes about plastic Thunderhawks, and resetting squat clocks are jokes and references aimed at old hands, saying, hey, we see and hear you. Which in turn makes it more palatable to spend 30-50 bucks on a box of models. I mean let's be honest, you can market at kids all you want but it's not like most of them have money, not every little Jimmy can pester their parent's into spending triple digits on a new hobby day 1, and the kids that are earning their own money probably have more important priorities. My main worry is that in the chase to find constant growth for shareholders year after year we'll get to a point where these price rises are trying to bleed a stone. If you have the finances to spend more for less year after year, more power to you, for me, I've already started planning on a different way to get my kicks.

 

That's a valid point, and I think that's where the the video game licensing and warhammer + come in. 

 

GW is scratching at a lot of the things they need to do stay relevant, but not with the same refinement of much older or bigger industries, so it's all a little bit sloppy. 

 

Take the video game licensing for instance - GW knew that the original deal with Relic brought a ton of people into tabletop through Dawn of War, but that was more by accident and Relic's efforts than GW. Fast forward out of the dark times, and THQ's collapse leaving the 40k license open for re-negotiation, and GW tries to replicate that magic by spreading the license around aggressively. 

 

Problem is, it wasn't really managed in any sort of serious way, and GW lacked the internal staff to assess video game developers and publishers for who would deliver, and we got a real scattergun of quality which, in many cases, likely hurt the brand more than helped it. 

 

We're seeing the quality of studios, and products, GW is licensing to on the video game front improve, but that's come with time and pain. 

 

To loop it back around to the pricing discussion, GW's relative "juniority" and lack of any real historical problems from pricing means it's not something they're worried about yet. It clearly was something they considered during the transition out of the Dark Times with the launch of Start Collecting and a lot more heavily discounted bundle boxes, but when sales skyrocketed more in line with major game updates, GW likely took that to mean the game's quality had a larger impact on their sales performance than the price per unit. 

 

The bundles still come out, though nowhere near the same kind of volume they used to, since they sell out basically instantly, which looks good to shareholders, but GW's been quite happy to keep raising prices and sell more and more rules products because the market keeps eating it up. At some point they'll hit an efficiency wall, with some amount of impact from demographics as well (i.e. the long-term impact of Brexit, Covid-19 and the overall socio-economic situation for different demographics in GW's core markets is still very hard to predict) but for now I very much doubt GW sees any reason to change their posture, because as far as they have experienced in their 40 years, price increases haven't hurt them. They've learned bad management, poor communication, sloppy rules/editions and slow update cycles hurt them, but prices haven't really hurt their bottom line. 

[Noserenda]

Hmmm makes me think actually, to some degree with the long running manufacturing problems GW is having, now is a time they can be less bothered by a small drop in sales if not income due to price rises, arguably if you cant keep something on the shelf it can stand to be more expensive. Thats a whole world of fine tuning im not remotely qualified to comment on ofc :D 

Nostalgia is one prong of their attack sure, im thinking that appeals more to the huge collector market who is not necessarily playing the games but would like an updated version of something they remember from their teens and a bigger disposable income. 

The Rules are getting increasingly complex though, which is a huge selling point for teenagers who statistically love getting immersed in rules systems and digging around combos and edge cases (Though thats a lot easier in the age of the internet) whilst if our own gaming group is anything to go by its an engagement killer. I know one of our (late 30's early 40's) group has gone silent after realising how much nonsense is involved in a marine army these days despite taking what he thought would be a super straightforward list, which is a shame :( 

[ThePenitentOne]

 

 

 

Actually, I think the Timmy experience then vs now is important IMO. Back in the good old days as a young timmy, I remember dumping that b'day stack + christmas stack straight on new 40k stuff and any pocket money I managed to save, got me a lot of miniatures. I often wonder if that's enough these days for the new timmy's to get a 2k pts army in one year. 

 

 

I think this is why 9th put effort into supporting 500 point games.

 

Timmy might not get that 2k army in a year. He doesn't need it. If he can pull together 25 PL, he can start a Crusade. It's way better than convincing himself 40k is a sport, going blind on netlists and WAAC Youtubers and thinking that chasing the meta for a 2k tournament is the only way to play.

[MegaVolt87]

I applaud GW's effort to stay relevant as times change. They are likely self aware they need more than their tabletop products to generate revenues, hence their diversification. However, I keep saying they try to start at the finish line for something new instead of integrating it in a more liner, traditional sense. GW seems to buy a bit too much into their own image, similar to games studio's. eg- "Bioware Magic". I want their tabletop games to be more than a slush fund to prop up their other ventures because they aren't doing them properly. Ideally, the new ventures are done properly, generate profits and we can stop clockwork periodic price increases, or freeze them entirely going forwards for tabletop. Their new ventures earnings could easily outstrip those of tabletop if they are managed correctly IMO. 

[Dark Shepherd]

Not to nitpick but the Sisters push is at least partially to broaden the player base.

 

They were one of the 3 poster factions for 9th.

 

Definitely though there is a danger of them killinh the goose that laid the golden egg with price creep

[sarabando]

The ironic thing is that imo if they did drop their prices most people would buy more. I know plenty of people who want to start armies of all sorts of factions including multiples of the same faction in different styles but simply cant justfity the cost. But its supply and demand atm (even pre covid) GW couldnt match the demand.

[Valkyrion]

I used to use a beer company to deliver Perfect Draft 6litre kegs of imported pressurised beer to use on a beer machine. 

Pre covid, the prices were £30 for one (plus delivery), or £96 for 4 (free delivery). £2.40 a pint

When Covid struck and the pubs were forced to shut, these prices went to £36 each with no bulk discount (£3.60 a pint, 50% increase) more or less overnight.

 

Had they stated that prices would have to increase as their beer is imported from mainland europe, and logistics simply forced a price increase once current stocks were depleted  then I would have understood and continued to use said company understanding that a price increase is inevitable, but to do it the first day after the pubs shut is opportunistic greed and left a sour taste, so now they've lost my £1200-1500 a year.

 

The point is that GW is in danger of doing likewise (with me) because lots of things are leaving sour tastes at the moment - only 2.5 years between editions, death guard codex with day 1 DLC, £40 for a mainline troops choice, blatant (and game changing) errors in both building instructions and new publications, the abandonment of proper space marines, dragging out the Heresy lore so that reading it actually took longer than the war itself, no clear roadmap for players to try and future proof their purchases.

 

The models are generally outstanding, their paint selection is great, the core boxed sets are very good value generally and it's really not all bad, but, even for a luxury niche hobby, the value for money is plummeting.

[Lord_Ikka]

 

I honestly don't think GW is directly marketing to a new youth market, a lot of recent moves just reek of nostalgia baiting. Sisters being number one, meme-y jokes about plastic Thunderhawks, and resetting squat clocks are jokes and references aimed at old hands, saying, hey, we see and hear you.

The problem with that arguement is that you're ignoring the fact that aside from the memes and jokes, GW hasn't done anything that really focuses on nostalgia in a main way. Sisters aren't really nostalgic- with the high rate of female gamers/players having a female-only army is just good business sense (they are courting the female demographic that now can be a major spending force, unlike when the SoB were originally released). As far as stuff like the plastic T-hawk, squats, and Zoats go- those are all delegated to specialist games that are not a prime source of GW's profit. Blackstar Fortress, Aeronutica Imperialis, and even Necromunda are side projects for GW; they may make GW a decent profit, but they aren't the flagship product of the company in the way that 40k/AoS are. That's why we don't see GW releasing an entirely new line of Squats, as the old gamers buying for nostalgia won't spend nearly as much as new/competitive players buying the latest updated army.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

I honestly don't think GW is directly marketing to a new youth market, a lot of recent moves just reek of nostalgia baiting. Sisters being number one, meme-y jokes about plastic Thunderhawks, and resetting squat clocks are jokes and references aimed at old hands, saying, hey, we see and hear you.

The problem with that arguement is that you're ignoring the fact that aside from the memes and jokes, GW hasn't done anything that really focuses on nostalgia in a main way. Sisters aren't really nostalgic- with the high rate of female gamers/players having a female-only army is just good business sense (they are courting the female demographic that now can be a major spending force, unlike when the SoB were originally released). As far as stuff like the plastic T-hawk, squats, and Zoats go- those are all delegated to specialist games that are not a prime source of GW's profit. Blackstar Fortress, Aeronutica Imperialis, and even Necromunda are side projects for GW; they may make GW a decent profit, but they aren't the flagship product of the company in the way that 40k/AoS are. That's why we don't see GW releasing an entirely new line of Squats, as the old gamers buying for nostalgia won't spend nearly as much as new/competitive players buying the latest updated army.

 

 

I think its a bit disingenuous to suggest younger prospective players wouldn't be interested in Squats, which are basically dwarves in space. The videogame Deep rock galactic is about space dwarves and is quite popular with younger gamers. I definitely think squats could be marketed to younger players. Plus it would be a good start point instead of SM, with enough similarities like stats and overall army model count etc. The real old timer pandering would be bringing in loyalist and chaotic beastmen into the Imperial Guard as a stand alone regiment. 

[Lord_Ikka]

 

 

 

I honestly don't think GW is directly marketing to a new youth market, a lot of recent moves just reek of nostalgia baiting. Sisters being number one, meme-y jokes about plastic Thunderhawks, and resetting squat clocks are jokes and references aimed at old hands, saying, hey, we see and hear you.

The problem with that arguement is that you're ignoring the fact that aside from the memes and jokes, GW hasn't done anything that really focuses on nostalgia in a main way. Sisters aren't really nostalgic- with the high rate of female gamers/players having a female-only army is just good business sense (they are courting the female demographic that now can be a major spending force, unlike when the SoB were originally released). As far as stuff like the plastic T-hawk, squats, and Zoats go- those are all delegated to specialist games that are not a prime source of GW's profit. Blackstar Fortress, Aeronutica Imperialis, and even Necromunda are side projects for GW; they may make GW a decent profit, but they aren't the flagship product of the company in the way that 40k/AoS are. That's why we don't see GW releasing an entirely new line of Squats, as the old gamers buying for nostalgia won't spend nearly as much as new/competitive players buying the latest updated army.

 

 

I think its a bit disingenuous to suggest younger prospective players wouldn't be interested in Squats, which are basically dwarves in space. The videogame Deep rock galactic is about space dwarves and is quite popular with younger gamers. I definitely think squats could be marketed to younger players. Plus it would be a good start point instead of SM, with enough similarities like stats and overall army model count etc. The real old timer pandering would be bringing in loyalist and chaotic beastmen into the Imperial Guard as a stand alone regiment. 

 

No doubt some newer players would be interested in Squats, I have no doubt of that. Its just a move that would speak more to nostalgia than not. Gameplay-wise, what would Squats offer that other factions of the Imperium don't? Not really anything, as we already have biker-centric armies in the White Scars/Ravenwing, the exo-suits of the Squats are no better than SM termie armor, and as far as the mole/thudd gun go you can get those in Imperial Guard armies already- that is all we ever really saw of Squat tech. There is no real reason to bring them back as far as gameplay, unless they were completely redesigned and changed to no longer really be the old Squats- at that point you might as well just not call them Squats in the first place and just make them a new xenos race (which they've hinted at with the Demiurg). So really, making a Squats line would most likely be aimed directly at nostalgia and not new players, for while new players could indeed get into the army (for the very reasons you stated), hitting old players buttons' is what the move would mainly do.