I'm worried...

[Luku]

Honestly, the more I read on WHC about the new changes the more I fear for my army. It started as buying a cool model and I ended up with a whole force almost purely made of Kastelan Robots, but as it stands at the moment I don't think they're going to that viable after the new Codex drops.

 

Now, with everything I've read so far it seems pretty clear they're not Core anymore. Couple that with all the re-wordings common in 9th updates and no Core means no re-rolls, no exploding 6's, no access to other abilities outside of perhaps repairs from a Techpriest..

 

Added to that with the update to the Phospex Blaster's stats the Robots have likely lost the Subroutine that gave them the ability to double fire. (I'm willing to bet that ends up being a 2CP stratagem instead of a baked in ability.)

 

So yes, as a standalone unit it can still put a ton of bullets down range, in the same way you'd expect from a tank in a Marine list. But in that same respect they're no longer able to be an integral part of an army synergizing with the models around them, they're just guns on legs.

Maybe it's just me but if I'm right it feels like these rule changes just ripped the Core out of my army...

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Luku

[brother_b]

There were some leaks that showed them going up to ballistic scale 3, weapon school too, instead of the standard old-school double shoot and double attack modes. It also looks like you might be able to take one first one phosphor, so mix up your tax.

 

I’m worried, hopeful, and confused. I can’t wait to see all the previews released on video tomorrow. It looks like the whole army is going to get a significant change and I just hope it’s all positive, I don’t need it to be over powered, I just don’t want a dumpster fire.

 

Along with that, crusade is awesome and people are looking forward to that part of the game. Crusade isn’t the meta though, and I hope we stay a strong army.

[INKS]

There was a recent army of reknown? Where it was these guys and servitors / stuff like that. Will that still work for your army? A whole group of these certainly looks cool.

[Black Knight]

I reserve worry until tomorrow, our new HQ which hasn't had any information revealed on it seems a lot more suspicious.

 

I also heard that they our bots maybe changed to being monsters and not vehicles, which really does put them in a different area. The Kataphrons have been buffed to the max because it looks like they are not getting core, I would expect the same for the bots.

[Malakithe]

They will be core with a datasmith around

[Magos Takatus]

That's certainly a good idea in my books. I like the Datasmith model and ever since they made it cost an elite slot it's been a bit of a liability. I think I heard someone say they don't have to take up a slot anymore, they are just attached to your HQ choice. I hope that is true, my poor shelf ornament deserves a chance to be useful.

 

I feel sorry for you if the Kastelans have been hit hard with the nerf bat, although you chose to hyper specialise your army GW was perfectly happy to sell an Apocalypse boxed set that was 100% robots and Datasmiths instead of a more varied force so there could be a few people sitting on piles of Kastelans. I know I got a second set off of Ebay for a rainy day. They will still get painted up but I won't be in a rush to do so if they take a big drop in effectivness.

 

The idea of one gun one fist Kastelans sounds interesting but I expect an all-rounder loadout probably won't be that popular.

[MagicHat]

I reserve worry until tomorrow, our new HQ which hasn't had any information revealed on it seems a lot more suspicious.

 

I also heard that they our bots maybe changed to being monsters and not vehicles, which really does put them in a different area. The Kataphrons have been buffed to the max because it looks like they are not getting core, I would expect the same for the bots.

 

The monster was Cawl all along, Kastelan is still vehicle. And Kataphrons are bikes.

 

EDIT: Also OP, you have melee Kastelans! They are supposedly up to 5 A base now with re-roll charges and 2+WS, and they have 7W now, making them much better against D2 and D3.

Edited May 22, 2021 by MagicHat

[Black Knight]

Apparently there maybe a four week fulfilment time for items from Element Games when it comes to Admech Pre-orders :S

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Apparently there maybe a four week fulfilment time for items from Element Games when it comes to Admech Pre-orders :S

Just pre-ordered from waylandgames, they announce a 6 days delay for Combat Patrol & Codex's release, not sure if they'll have stocks atm though^^

 

Did not ordered the Marshall, waiting to see its abilities before deciding^^ Combat Patrol was a goto for me though, another Onager + 3 Kataphrons unit for my starting collection ? Yes please !

[Black Knight]

Wayland are not offering the Datacards, so I am not pre-ordering half the stuff today.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Are the datacards that important ? I mean, what are they used for ? From my point of view, the infos on them can be printed from Battlescribe army list, no ?

 

Or maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture here ?

 

EDIT : BattleScribe seems to be up to date already ! :tu:

Edited May 22, 2021 by Magos Guilderius Davvarel

[Black Knight]

From what I have seen of the reviews, our codex is the most complicated ever devised and honestly I am not getting any younger when it comes to remembering things. I would rather have some cards to flop down than having to keep my head stuck in the book.

 

Not for everyone but I do find the cards helpful accross all GWs games.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

I play a lot of tabletop/video games with complicated rules or combos, so I'm feeling pretty confortable with these^^ But I still intend to print a reminder, one can never be too cautious :P

[brother_b]

Well, hrmmm. This codex looks like a :cuss show; complicated rules, probably late edit reworks, vastly new options for many forge worlds, those vast options don’t matter because Mars appears to be the best (by far), ridiculous ideas (archeopter drop pod, CORE unit issues for cult mechanicus, breachers not core).

 

In the many reviews I’ve read or listened to there does still seem to be some really strong stuff, but it’s going to be costly (baillistari) in terms of actual money, and in the end after all the weird changes a Mars gun line is still probably the best option.

At least fist bots may finally get to shine... but my Stygies army will most likely go Mars, or a faint possibility of Lucius.

 

/internet_review_assessment_off

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

Well, hrmmm. This codex looks like a show; complicated rules, probably late edit reworks, vastly new options for many forge worlds, those vast options don’t matter because Mars appears to be the best (by far), ridiculous ideas (archeopter drop pod, CORE unit issues for cult mechanicus, breachers not core).

 

In the many reviews I’ve read or listened to there does still seem to be some really strong stuff, but it’s going to be costly (baillistari) in terms of actual money, and in the end after all the weird changes a Mars gun line is still probably the best option.

At least fist bots may finally get to shine... but my Stygies army will most likely go Mars, or a faint possibility of Lucius.

 

/internet_review_assessment_off

Currently watching SkaredCast show on YT, pretty crazy where they went with some cannons FWs :D I'm not that sure Mars will be keeping the crown for long, Lucius for example is becoming pretty great in my (neophyte) humble opinion^^

[brother_b]

 

Well, hrmmm. This codex looks like a show; complicated rules, probably late edit reworks, vastly new options for many forge worlds, those vast options don’t matter because Mars appears to be the best (by far), ridiculous ideas (archeopter drop pod, CORE unit issues for cult mechanicus, breachers not core).

 

In the many reviews I’ve read or listened to there does still seem to be some really strong stuff, but it’s going to be costly (baillistari) in terms of actual money, and in the end after all the weird changes a Mars gun line is still probably the best option.

At least fist bots may finally get to shine... but my Stygies army will most likely go Mars, or a faint possibility of Lucius.

 

/internet_review_assessment_off

Currently watching SkaredCast show on YT, pretty crazy where they went with some cannons FWs I'm not that sure Mars will be keeping the crown for long, Lucius for example is becoming pretty great in my (neophyte) humble opinion^^

 

Yeah but in the end it’s about damage, and so the nice buff to troops will make sitting on objectives better for Lucius, you just can’t get away from the fact that Mars does everything better.

 

Canticles on skitarii via Mars with the rerolls etc is much better as I look at than buff vs. single damage shots, especially when you can drop shroudpsalmn on skitarii.

 

I’ve got a game set for the beginning of next month I’ll hopefully have some actual game play feedback after that.

[Magos Guilderius Davvarel]

I’ve got a game set for the beginning of next month I’ll hopefully have some actual game play feedback after that.

 

Some feedback would be awesome, looking for this !

Edited May 22, 2021 by Magos Guilderius Davvarel

[MagicHat]

I am broadly speaking optimistic. There are changes, and some are more vexing than others, but I will cope with it. On the brightest side, my Kastelans are all magnetized, as are my Onagers, save for the phosphor option which looks kinda decent nowadays.

Lots of buffs for single units though, encouraging big units.

 

I am a bit peeved with the WT though.

Masterwork Bionics (Solid defensive boost), Necromechanic (Reliable and can work with stratagems) and Field testing are fine (Both Dominus main weapons goes to S7, the Axe becomes the Relic Axe, the macrostubber, 5 S5 D2 shots  ). 

But the other 3.

Cartogrammist only works on Electro-priests, Emotionless clarity and Supervisory Radiance only on electro-priests and Kastelans with a Datasmith. They are all good for the Electro-priests but still. Mars WT is the same, as is Cawls Lead in Prayer.

 

Skitarii traits, oh my. Not only are they all useful, they have great reach and you have a stratagem to give them to Alpha/princeps. 

 

Relics looks useful. A Marshal with Exemplar's and an Enginseer trailing 5 Ironstriders seems very good for 2+ to hit, re-rolling 1's to hit and wound. And, again, you can give some of them to Alpha/princeps. Omniscient Mask on a Pteraxii that trails Dragoons, or dropping in with the skull of tesla on a parking lot. The cage of varadimas with the trait that makes you strike first to make an enemy unit -1 to hit.

Even the weapons are all big improvements, although this doesn't necessarily make them good options. Phosphoenix and Purgation massively increases lethality of their base weapons though. Pater cog-tooth exists and is probably the only relic I would never pick, although the Uncreator is fairly close too.

 

 

I still haven't played in 9th, but our secondaries looks difficult. Accretion of Knowledge and Eradication of Flesh are both very reliant on the opponents list and your own in the case of Eradication of Flesh. Does the enemy know the order of Uncharted Sequencing? Hidden Archeovault depends on how fast you can park a unit of Breachers on that objective.

 

Cawl can repair Knights now, but the self-repair can no longer stack with a Master of Machines. Also, I can't see anything that stops him for hanging out with other forgeworlds if he sits in a supreme command detachment, although his re-roll all hits only applies with Mars. Which works in melee now.

 

Manipulus gives a significant buff, +6" range to rad, galvanic and arc, while boosting AP of the same, but not sure if it is worth the cost. Could use it on Serberys Raiders to make them slightly more likely to take out a character. Or a Dragoon with the Jezzail, a totally legitimate and useful option. On the + side, the Lance is now actually long-range.

 

The Dominus... Lost self-repair. Can now re-roll melee but, again, only for core.Volkite Blaster got improved.

 

Daedalosus is a generic character now, which is nice. Lost the bonus to hit, but protects against reinforcments within 12" and granting units the ability to do actions while still shooting is nice.

 

Marshal is very useful indeed. Remove the negative of a Doctrine and re-roll wounds is nice. Combat capacity is nothing special, unless equipped with the relic pistol, but I am seriously starting to regret not giving my models data-tethers.

 

Enginseer finally is not equipped with a las pistol. This pleases me. Also lost the ability to repair Astra Militarum vehicles  but can repair any forge world model. I feel like that is a loss of flavour though. Servo-arms lost the -1 to hit, not that it really matters. They are BS3+ now, and have 5+ invulnerable.

 

The fact that we can have 20 man Skitarii units is just wild to me. We can buff single units a lot even before specific forge world stuff. Manipulus, Marshal, Dominus, Doctrina, relics and traits and every single Holy Order could apply buffs in a single turn. Also a prime target for blasts, but I still wanna do it at least once. I like the changes to the weapons. D2 on a 6 to wound, while theoretically useful, was of questionable use when speedrolling and took up a lot of time. I wont mourn it.

The changes to the special weapons means that they at least aren't completely useless when put on either vanguards or rangers, being at least range 30" and the arquebus not necessating standing still. I have 3 squads with 10 men and 3 of each weapon in each, all painted with their own markings, so they will require some work sadly.

Also, small scout move for rangers and Vanguards reduces S as well now.

 

Kataphron going to 3-6 and losing core is less wild. But hey, we have BIKERS now! How about that! But seriously. Even without core and all those great buffs we have that only targets core, they still got some great improvements for weapons and improved Sv. And they don't have to castle now. Admittedly, it is mostly Breachers that improved, and mostly in CC, where they became incredible compared to before.

[brother_b]

Great insight and glad you’re being positive, one should always strive for that, praise the Omnissiah.

 

Mini war gaming ran a battle report with the new codex. It was confusing, which was my biggest gripe. Also I agree core for only priests and sometimes robots is very odd. I guess Kataphrons were overpowered with the core abilities is my only thought, and got changed pre-release.

 

I pre-ordered cards, marshal, and codex. Now I have to look at my models to see what I’m going to build and how I’m going to make my army.

 

20 vanguard being led by Marshall seems pretty damn cool, followed by a data smith and his FIST robots! 

[INKS]

So can you still run the robot only army that came out in Charadon? 

[Malakithe]

Im just happy about being able to include a Knight without messing everything up

[MagicHat]

Vanguards pushing down SM into S3 in melee is hilarious, especially if they also have Kastelans bashing at them.

 

Servitors no longer takes up a slot but all their weapons went up in cost and for actions, I guess I rather spend a bit more for 5 Skitarii.

 

Electro priests looks like reasonable changes. Corpuscarii going up with better AP and Fulgurites going down with worse Invulnerable but better charge and fixed D2 seems fair.

 

Sicarians (And all advanced Skitarii) having 5+ invulerable is nice. Ruststalkers got some well needed AP and some special rules that can come in handy, but it feels like they did the chordclaw/razor dirty. Infiltrators shutting off re-rolls against is cool, but imagine if they shut off re-rolls entirely for enemies within 12".

 

Serberys staying same cost but buffed is nice. Both gaining boosted A and 5++, Raiders got themself Ap1 carbines that Manipulus could boost turn 1. Sulphurhounds, their carbine can be shot alongside the flamer and their pistol, the breath, arc maul and the blast pistol were all buffed. And they reduce S of enemy as well. The alpha could potentially put down a vehicle on its final wounds now.

 

Ballitstarii is probably the most buffed unit in the game. Core, access to almost all the good buffs, improved save and weapons, all at no extra cost. Insane.

Dragoons, also same cost, with +1 A, AP, Save and their minus 1 to hit works in melee now.

 

I already talked about the Kastelans melee, but it bears repeating. 5 A at WS2+ is vastly superior to 6 at WS4+. And they can still shoot and re-roll charges. Protector Protocols are dead, long live Conqueror. Or, you could have 4A, still hit about 3 times in melee and shoot with 3 S6 Ap1 D2 shots on the way in. Mixed weaponry looks good!

[Black Knight]

Well looks like the worrying about the Marshall was not needed at least, especially with a certain Warlord trait.

 

Bots are on the other hand "different", they can't double shoot but have a higher BS and now it looks like we again have a melee version that's worth a look.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Comparing the 8th codex to the 9th codex and it's astounding how much changed with the core of the theme staying relatively the same. Punchbots are probably the way to go now IMO or at least one fist, one gun. The Phospher blasters are now looking more like Autocannons/Heavy Bolters rather than rapid firing death machines, I think it suits Kastellans play style a bit more.

 

The amount of layered rules is worrying but with practice it should be easy enough to remember, I just hope that they clarify/fix some of the more bizarre interactions like the Datasmith making Kastellans Core etc.

 

Overall a very exciting codex for me, I love the Marshall model and will definitely be investing in one

[Reigart]

I could see a future codex supplement for Agripinaa that makes kataphrons core. It would be a cool way to add flavors to the forgeworlds