Good News for Aussies?

[Dark_Master]

Hello All,

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57478412

 

Noticed the bit about British goods going to Australia.

 

Fingers crossed it means GW kits may become cheaper for our cousins down under.

 

DM

 

(I do know what hope is though)

[N1SB]

I would ask the advice of our Fratres in Australia and New Zealand please.  Why is Warhammer and Forgeworld so expensive there?

 

And I hope this trade deal will help you.  I simply wish I knew more about this particular aspect.  It's confounded me for awhile.  I had an extended stay in Sydney more than a decade ago and I know a lot of imports are marked up due to higher transport costs, but I never understood why Warhammer and Forgeworld is that expensive.

[Marshal Loss]

Whether it goes through or not, GW won't pass on any savings to us.

[Joe]

Does this affect the tax on the import of luxury goods into Australia from the United Kingdom? Because if not you aren't likely to see any changes.

[Grotsmasha]

I would ask the advice of our Fratres in Australia and New Zealand please.  Why is Warhammer and Forgeworld so expensive there?

 

And I hope this trade deal will help you.  I simply wish I knew more about this particular aspect.  It's confounded me for awhile.  I had an extended stay in Sydney more than a decade ago and I know a lot of imports are marked up due to higher transport costs, but I never understood why Warhammer and Forgeworld is that expensive.

 

I've always referred to it as the "living on a big island in the middle of nowhere" tax, but if I can buy it BNIB in GBP and have it shipped to Oz for less than walking into my local GW, there's still an unfair disparity there. I understand transport to Oz from UK must be a lot of $$$, but surely it's not monumentally more than to the US? I mean there should be a markup for UK to anywhere else in the world, but it should be consistent.

 

Anyway, the potential for this new deal is cool, and hopefully means we'll skip the next couple of price rises....

Edited June 15, 2021 by Grotsmasha

[Lord Marshal]

Aussies and Kiwis keep paying those prices no matter how eye watering they are. GW have no reason to pass the savings on. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

This isn't a thread to start discussing UK/AUS Politics.

I've moved this to the Amicus as it doesn't really fit in News and Rumours

[Lucien Eilam]

I understand transport to Oz from UK must be a lot of $$$, but surely it's not monumentally more than to the US?

 

I don’t think it can be the shipping. My understanding of international freight is that the miles are cheap. The various taxes and duties involved in importing a container, and certifying your products comply with the local regulations and standards, are where the real expenses lie. And that those costs are typically substantially higher for the US than most other countries anyway.

 

But the US market is like 10-15 times the size of the Australian market, and their Memphis distribution centre also handles Canada, which itself is bigger than Australia. My guess is it also costs more to rent stores and hire staff in Australia than it does in the US, but I may be making a false assumption there.

 

The cost of putting one parcel in the post (which may or may not have been properly declared for import duty and taxes… ) is really too simplistic to estimate the costs of operating a business in another country, complete with offices and a retail chain.

 

(I’m sure a lot of customers don’t care about or have any use for their retail chain, and it’s galling to be “subsidising” it like this, but it is what it is. They’re going to put those costs somewhere.)

 

So, relative to the US, Australia has higher cost of doing business, and the fixed costs are spread between far fewer potential customers, meaning the problem is more “living on a big, sparsely populated, relatively expensive island in the middle of nowhere”.

 

Whether the numbers they arrived at are “fair” is another, more subjective question, but it’s not inconsistent for countries to be treated differently, when the costs and revenue are likely to also be radically different.

[Panzer]

 

I would ask the advice of our Fratres in Australia and New Zealand please.  Why is Warhammer and Forgeworld so expensive there?

 

And I hope this trade deal will help you.  I simply wish I knew more about this particular aspect.  It's confounded me for awhile.  I had an extended stay in Sydney more than a decade ago and I know a lot of imports are marked up due to higher transport costs, but I never understood why Warhammer and Forgeworld is that expensive.

 

I've always referred to it as the "living on a big island in the middle of nowhere" tax, but if I can buy it BNIB in GBP and have it shipped to Oz for less than walking into my local GW, there's still an unfair disparity there. I understand transport to Oz from UK must be a lot of $$$, but surely it's not monumentally more than to the US? I mean there should be a markup for UK to anywhere else in the world, but it should be consistent.

 

Anyway, the potential for this new deal is cool, and hopefully means we'll skip the next couple of price rises....

 

I mean things get shipped around the world all the time. So much of our products or parts of our products get produced in china. Shipping to those islands shouldn't be much of an issue. Especially considering other products that get imported aren't suffering from the same issue either. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

When I was shipping exports from the US, I know that Australia had some extra environmental rules. If I remember correctly we had to have the skids fumigated (Our freight forwarder would do that for us but it was an additional cost).  The volume of product is also a factor, they may ship to those locations through a forwarder, and have to have a 3rd party distribute product for them which isn't cheap. 

[Lucien Eilam]

Australia does have very strict biosecurity rules, cane toads and rabbits having taught them some hard lessons about invasive species.
 
Not convinced those rules have that much of an impact on the import of corporaptor hominis though.

 

I think they handle their own distribution, they have a hub in Sydney. But I’m not sure that helps matters – it means they have real estate and staff costs that have to be accounted for and recouped, and justified with Australian sales.

 

Most other hobby manufacturers will use a big local distributor and let them work out how to make the whole thing profitable. Even then, looking at things like board games and other table-top games, it looks like 10-25% markup compared with UK prices is common. The confusing thing is why for GW it can be 50-100% sometimes. Either they really hate Australians, or they have costs that a company like Asmodee don’t.

 

Might be overthinking it. If it briefly made sense 20+ years ago and that’s the established level the local market is used to, and has been paying, there’s no reason for them to ever lower prices.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Lucien Eilam

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah I was pointing out an additional cost that most other countries don't require, and should have made it clear it doesn't justify their price point just a slightly higher one. 

[Bat33.1]

This is 2nd hand info but according to the GW head of retail, who is an Australian, the sales in Australia aren't large enough in the global total for them to be a focus for GW especially when the US/Canada is the area they are pushing for growth. Australia has suffered ever since GW stopped UK stores selling direct and even allowing for shipping half way around the world could easily undercut GW stores. 

There will be big cost pressures on GW sales to Australia with the current huge increases in shipping container rates too. A 40ft container has moved from circa £2000 from China to UK to £10,000 or more in the last 6 months. 

It's probably cheaper for GW to ship from the US to Australia than from the UK anyway as it's a much shorter route from the West coast of the USA than it is direct from the UK.

Does GW now produce plastic kits in the US now or is that just one of the future aims of the US branch of GW?

[jarms48]

Hello All,

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57478412

 

Noticed the bit about British goods going to Australia.

 

Fingers crossed it means GW kits may become cheaper for our cousins down under.

 

DM

 

(I do know what hope is though)

 

GW have already released the costs for the updated Infantry Squad and Gaunts Ghosts kits. $77 and $110 respectively, also frankly ridiculous for the former. 

[MegaVolt87]

I would ask the advice of our Fratres in Australia and New Zealand please.  Why is Warhammer and Forgeworld so expensive there?

 

And I hope this trade deal will help you.  I simply wish I knew more about this particular aspect.  It's confounded me for awhile.  I had an extended stay in Sydney more than a decade ago and I know a lot of imports are marked up due to higher transport costs, but I never understood why Warhammer and Forgeworld is that expensive.

 

I would honestly prefer it if GW closed all its OZ stores and leave it to 3rd party LGS, which is where most of us buy from anyway and play at. Then they will have space to charge us what UK peeps pay with a straight currency conversion. I am starting to think GW's OZ/NZ operation is some kind of deductible losses/ low tax offset strategy, foreign currency float for them. I think we are definitely the smallest return on relative investment for them for sure, but have other benefits for them to bother with. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by MegaVolt87

[Marshal Loss]

the sales in Australia aren't large enough in the global total for them to be a focus for GW especially

Bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy there when prices have always been high (and have gotten much worse) and community support has been gutted over the last decade. We're obviously never going to be a market on par with the US, but you reap what you sow.

[TheTrans]

As an aussie, there was also the blatant tell of the 'rejigg' of Forgeworld pricing a few years back, then they started making us purchase in our local currency..as a favour..so we didn't need to use XE... 

Some prices literally doubled or tippled overnight... for no change other than the fact they had updated the FW pricing to match the Australia tax from the GW stores. 

Given we used to be able to ship stuff from discount retailers in the UK to Aus and save a huge amount...before GW stopped anyone selling items out of their areas..you know..to protect local stores -_-...  I feel any 'oh but shipping' or 'oh but so far away' are just ways to make people feel better about how Australians cop it in the neck for no reason other than being in Australia.
 

We saw this in things other than just GW like games on Steam.

 

A few years back when the AUD was close to parity with the USD, prices where still $90AUD on say Steam or Origin...but were $40USD... So we were paying double for a non-physical item.. just cos.

 

I believe there was a story going around, take with salt, but it was something that you could fly a person to America to purchase an Adobe license of some flavour from a store in the US and fly them back for the cost of what the same thing cost to purchase when in Australia while online.

 

So by and large, every one reams Australia on pricing....for no other reason than 'just cos'. I know people like to spruik 'higher minimum wage' etc... But I honestly feel that is again..defending the predatory pricing..

 

Lord knows the Heresy community down under only survived to to our asiatic counterparts... Go have a look at the jetbikes... $180 for 3.... -_-.. 

 

Any way, just my $0.02 on the Aussie price gouging.

[Corswain]

Big country, small market, long way from source. Probably the biggest reasons but not the only ones. This problem is not unique to GW either, lots of things are quite expensive in Australia but our average pay is also significantly higher than many countries. That's life. It's annoying and nobody is real happy about it... but it's not likely to change.

[MegaVolt87]

Big country, small market, long way from source. Probably the biggest reasons but not the only ones. This problem is not unique to GW either, lots of things are quite expensive in Australia but our average pay is also significantly higher than many countries. That's life. It's annoying and nobody is real happy about it... but it's not likely to change.

And yet GW can give free shipping to us because our region prices tip the threshold easily. I haven't paid shipping for years at GW main or more recently FW.

[Firedrake Cordova]

A few years back when the AUD was close to parity with the USD, prices where still $90AUD on say Steam or Origin...but were $40USD... So we were paying double for a non-physical item.. just cos.

Sadly, that's pretty common with multi-national companies. Back when $1 was worth £0.50, a lot of items sold in the UK by American companies were priced at $1 = £1. Lots of arguments were made as to why (cost of living, taxes, shipping, etc) - this was especially prevalent in consumer electronics, although they were all debunked rather roundly by one of the academics at the LSE. Ultimately, it was just regional-based pricing and/or wanting to maintain a given revenue stream in their native currency.  (what makes it feel worse is that average wages in the UK are actually pretty low when compared to other comparable countries...)

 

More recently, one manufacturer of crisps increased their prices after GBP fell relative to EUR (where the parent company was headquartered), despite the fact that all production was done in the UK - the increase was just to maintain a given level of income.

 

I believe there was a story going around, take with salt, but it was something that you could fly a person to America to purchase an Adobe license of some flavour from a store in the US and fly them back for the cost of what the same thing cost to purchase when in Australia while online.

That definitely was the case with some things over here, so I can well believe it.

 

So by and large, every one reams Australia on pricing....for no other reason than 'just cos'. I know people like to spruik 'higher minimum wage' etc... But I honestly feel that is again..defending the predatory pricing..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Australia has higher average wages and cost of living compared to other countries? I would imagine there's a general perception that charging more is OK, because "you're [comparatively] rich", within some companies..?

[smileyjim]

 

 

I would ask the advice of our Fratres in Australia and New Zealand please. Why is Warhammer and Forgeworld so expensive there?

 

And I hope this trade deal will help you. I simply wish I knew more about this particular aspect. It's confounded me for awhile. I had an extended stay in Sydney more than a decade ago and I know a lot of imports are marked up due to higher transport costs, but I never understood why Warhammer and Forgeworld is that expensive.

I would honestly prefer it if GW closed all its OZ stores and leave it to 3rd party LGS, which is where most of us buy from anyway and play at. Then they will have space to charge us what UK peeps pay with a straight currency conversion. I am starting to think GW's OZ/NZ operation is some kind of deductible losses/ low tax offset strategy, foreign currency float for them. I think we are definitely the smallest return on relative investment for them for sure, but have other benefits for them to bother with.

Only time I went into a real GW store was to get one of those free minis.... and they didn't have any. Store was tiny, stock was :cuss. Don't know why people go to them at all as the local hobby stores are always way better

[TheTrans]

 

A few years back when the AUD was close to parity with the USD, prices where still $90AUD on say Steam or Origin...but were $40USD... So we were paying double for a non-physical item.. just cos.

Sadly, that's pretty common with multi-national companies. Back when $1 was worth £0.50, a lot of items sold in the UK by American companies were priced at $1 = £1. Lots of arguments were made as to why (cost of living, taxes, shipping, etc) - this was especially prevalent in consumer electronics, although they were all debunked rather roundly by one of the academics at the LSE. Ultimately, it was just regional-based pricing and/or wanting to maintain a given revenue stream in their native currency.  (what makes it feel worse is that average wages in the UK are actually pretty low when compared to other comparable countries...)

 

More recently, one manufacturer of crisps increased their prices after GBP fell relative to EUR (where the parent company was headquartered), despite the fact that all production was done in the UK - the increase was just to maintain a given level of income.

 

I believe there was a story going around, take with salt, but it was something that you could fly a person to America to purchase an Adobe license of some flavour from a store in the US and fly them back for the cost of what the same thing cost to purchase when in Australia while online.

That definitely was the case with some things over here, so I can well believe it.

 

So by and large, every one reams Australia on pricing....for no other reason than 'just cos'. I know people like to spruik 'higher minimum wage' etc... But I honestly feel that is again..defending the predatory pricing..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Australia has higher average wages and cost of living compared to other countries? I would imagine there's a general perception that charging more is OK, because "you're [comparatively] rich", within some companies..?

 

 

I have no metrics and honestly won't look into them haha.. but yes I hear that Australia has higher wages...but also our cost of living is higher as far as I'm aware... so like higher wages sounds great... but if living also costs more, it can end in the net or even less amount of remaining 'hobby' or expendable money before we then get hit with inflated prices.

 

Like lets say:

Australia Average Monthly Wage is $2000 (I have no idea what it is), and cost of living is $1800 a month. We can then buy the Gaunts Ghosts box and the pair of $40 books, so $190 total.

 

UK say the average wage is 1000 Pounds a month ($1800ish), say the cost of living is 900 pound ($1650) a month. Leaving you with about 100 pound, or $150ish dollars left a month. So you buy the same thing of the Gaunts Ghost and the 2 books. 78 poung, or $142ish.. leaving you, even with a lower net wage, but still $50ish better off for no real reason. 

 

So I have no doubt an arm chair economist will came in and nuke everything I've got to say, which I have no doubt they'll readily know more than me haha... but again we are paying, what, almost 25% ontop of what you guys are getting. I don't think we make, on average, 125% the average english wage, surely. Or if we do, I feel the cost of living could make up for that.

 

Anyway, long story short... GW is essentially that meme of the dude shooting the other dude in the chair.. the dude in the chair being GW fans downunder and the question is "why would a convict nation pirate our stuff?!" 

[Firedrake Cordova]

but yes I hear that Australia has higher wages...but also our cost of living is higher as far as I'm aware... so like higher wages sounds great... but if living also costs more, it can end in the net or even less amount of remaining 'hobby' or expendable money before we then get hit with inflated prices.

I get that (I did say about the increased cost of living in my post ), and as someone who's been annoyed by differential pricing in past, you have my sympathies. I'm just trying to think of reasons why companies may increase their prices for you guys (the perception of "they have more money thus they can afford it" feels like a good candidate).  Obviously transport costs will be something companies will want to pass on, but I doubt it's that great! (unless they're paying serious danger money to the transport guys due to the possibility of "ninja Skippy" incidents )

[TheTrans]

 

but yes I hear that Australia has higher wages...but also our cost of living is higher as far as I'm aware... so like higher wages sounds great... but if living also costs more, it can end in the net or even less amount of remaining 'hobby' or expendable money before we then get hit with inflated prices.

I get that (I did say about the increased cost of living in my post ), and as someone who's been annoyed by differential pricing in past, you have my sympathies. I'm just trying to think of reasons why companies may increase their prices for you guys (the perception of "they have more money thus they can afford it" feels like a good candidate).  Obviously transport costs will be something companies will want to pass on, but I doubt it's that great! (unless they're paying serious danger money to the transport guys due to the possibility of "ninja Skippy" incidents )

 

Its actually the drop bears and hoop snakes that cause the biggest issues to transport... Ninja Skippies just like disemboweling people and drowning dogs!

 

I think 'better wage' is an easy one to lean on, that, also given how small (population wise) we are, it's not like any big countries are going to be like 'hey stop reaming australia', so they just get to keep doing it. 

 

Its similar to how Telstra/Foxtel when they had a monopoly, torrenting of TV shows and movies was through the roof. When streaming services started to make their way down here...torrenting let up a bit... but when they start to stop the sharing of accounts..guess what will happen.

 

Australians are used to getting a raw deal on the pricing of stuff and we generally find ways around it (torrenting, Chinacast, grey imports etc) so I just love when companies complain about why it happens down here..but don't look at their pricing policies. 

[XeonDragon]

Won't make a difference. Australia is a small, rich market on the far side of the planet. We have high wages and whilst we like to whinge about cost of living, our cost of living is actually (relative to our wages) OK*. So GW, as with many other companies, simply has no incentive to be price competitive in the Australian market. We pay more (and get less) for streaming services, pay tv, fashion and a range of other goods. We get great quality food, water, medicine, education, wine, spirits, football/"footy" (all four types) and transport/cars, for relatively cheaply (compared to the quality).

 

GW won't lower prices because they don't see a need, nor feel any market or competitive pressure to do so. Also, the Australian dollar is factor. 

 

* notable exception being purchasing housing in certain markets. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by XeonDragon