Thoughts on Kill Team 2

[Orpheus108]

Well its been sometime since I've posted here, been playing KT every week in my gaming shed with a good group of friends. Everything goes well and now we find they are releasing KT2 and its been rebuilt from the ground up.

 

With what they released so far im very much still up in the air on whether I'm going to go down that road. Yes it's early days on what they have told us and from the website they haven't included Starstriders, Gellarpox or Blackstone Fortress crew (they may release rules later, I know) but it disappoints me still.

 

What I'm looking for is what are other peoples thoughts and views on this new version of KT and what it's going to do to the KT scene.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm torn, in that I also like the current killteam.  One of the things I am apprehensive about is that with killteam is that the units are all identical to their 40K versions and the rules are pretty close too, meaning I don't have to dedicate a bunch of headspace to trying to remember or figure out how things work.  This is especially nice when trying to keep track of what my opponent's forces can do - I probably already know their stat blocks, weapons and unit special rules from 40K, as well as their specialist rules which are the same for all factions, which reduces unpleasant surprises and wondering if my opponent knows their own rules correctly.

 

That said, I know the current killteam is not perfect and that a new system could well be better.  For me, I don't mind that it is stripping out some of the units that exist in the current game, as one of the things I like best about killteam is its (relative) lack of complexity so I have never played with any rules beyond those contained in the main rulebook and the terrain boxes. So, myself I will likely buy it, try it out in the inevitable local GW league, and form my opinions of it that way.

 

That said, if your gaming group is happy with the current killteam, there is really no reason you need to switch to the new version and I encourage you to keep playing the game as you and your gaming group like it.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I'm not stressing about the new rule set, and looking forward to trying it.  I own every KT book they released since they overhauled it + some custom lists from this board and of my own making; I can always use this stuff since I only play at home and with friends. 

 

That being said There are definitely aspects of the current (or old) rule set that definitely didn't work as well as I would have liked, but that's just like any rule set. 

[NTaW]

I have been completely uninterested in Kill Team because it shares so much with 40k, right up to how inflexible wargear options are for some teams. Kill Team 2 so far looks a lot more interesting because of the differences. I particularly liked the recent article going over close combat and how players roll off and decide between parrying and trying to wound.

 

Depending on how wargear loadouts are treated I may give in and break from other skirmish games to try this one out.

[Panzer]

The current Kill Team was neat but not "deep" enough for me to play it more than a few times. It felt too much like low points 40k still. The new Kill Team looks very promising so far though and I'm sure they learned quite a lot from AoS WarCry which is pretty popular.

 

As for the teams themselves, I'm sure the current selection is just so everyone can start playing right away while more specialised teams (like the DKoK and the Ork Kommando ones) will come slowly over time.

 

Something that got my attention though is that T'au got a second team that's Kroot exclusives. Considering every other faction only got that one team (plus the two new ones) that's an interesting special treatment.

[LameBeard]

Weren’t Kroot already a separate White Dwarf faction in the previous version? Hasn’t the ‘lore’ been hinting for a while about the Kroot pursuing their own agenda and perhaps not being as fully integrated into the T’au Empire as initially thought? Ie GW leaving open the possibility of making them a fully fledged 40k faction in the future. A bit like Deathwatch and Harlequins at times were really just allies before getting enough options to become full factions.

[Panzer]

Weren’t Kroot already a separate White Dwarf faction in the previous version? Hasn’t the ‘lore’ been hinting for a while about the Kroot pursuing their own agenda and perhaps not being as fully integrated into the T’au Empire as initially thought? Ie GW leaving open the possibility of making them a fully fledged 40k faction in the future. A bit like Deathwatch and Harlequins at times were really just allies before getting enough options to become full factions.

 

Lots of things have been a separate team in the current Kill Team, but aren't in the new for now. And no the team description for the new Kill Team points towards the exact opposite since it talks about how extremely loyal they are.

[Berzul]

I liked the old Kill Team. It's a bit disheartening to think I'll have to just shelf all the rules and scenarios, after spending a lot to get every kit and box.

 

But, that being said... What most strikes me as an improvement here is the emphasis made on the versatility and customization aspects of the units. I really am looking forward to a team that is truly unique. With each model being armes for a specific role.

[Sete]

I'm excited about the new rules to be honest.

Eager to try it. I think it might thrive on being a different system from 40k.

[RedRowan]

The current version of Kill Team just didn't click with me. Really wanted to like it but the gameplay just never felt like what I thought it should for that size of game.

 

From the few rule previews we've had so far I'm very excited for this new version, get the impression that it is going to play much quicker than the original. Also feels like there is going to be a little more customisation for teams which is good. Just hoping they build on all work they have done with the likes of Warcry and the Crusade system for 40K to build of good campaign system too.

 

Steve

[firestorm40k]

I don't mind the mechanics of a ruleset changing; in fact, I like the look of what I'm seeing with these new rules.

 

What's important to me is that it keeps the 'feel' of 40k,in terms of how each faction plays (e.g. Space Marines should play in-game like the trans-human warriors that they are); and the distinctiveness that Specialists provide. I spend more time building and painting miniatures than actually gaming, and I love the hobby opportunities provided by making the Specialists for my Kill Team.

 

So long as the new rules can do both of these, I'll be happy.

[Orpheus108]

I hope that they include the starstriders and gellarpox later, Inquisitor teams and the like.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Keep a game under 2 hours. Around 1 hour would be ideal.

Aside for that, really looking forward to it!

[Sete]

Well custodes take 2 models in a team. Hot damn.

I wonder if we can take 1 Custodes and like 2 or 3 SoS.

[excelite]

Well custodes take 2 models in a team. Hot damn.

I wonder if we can take 1 Custodes and like 2 or 3 SoS.

They‘re both part of the same faction, so there’s a chance this might be a thing Edited July 23, 2021 by excelite

[Master Sheol]

Well custodes take 2 models in a team. Hot damn.

I wonder if we can take 1 Custodes and like 2 or 3 SoS.

Probably they will be a KT like the DG ne with a  single fireteam of  2 Custiodes and some SoS (i guess a number from 3 to 5 per Killteam)

 

 

By now my thoughts about new KT are not so happy

Some rules mechanics are nice but the overall picture is dissapointing to me in particular the army composition

[Sete]

What aspects in the army composition you dislike?

 

Lack of points? Fixed number on Fire Teams?

Edited July 24, 2021 by Sete

[Lord Raven 19]

I'm slightly worried how fire teams may limit builds for factions with more options like marines, I don't want a kill team of all intercessors just to take my TH sergeant. I'm willing to see how it turns out, but a bit apprehensive about this. My hope would be a fire team for each armour pattern I guess.

[Berzul]

What aspects in the army composition you dislike?

 

Lack of points? Fixed number on Fire Teams?

 

I think the system looks interesting, but I am worried about:

 

1) How the system seems to still be just, a Leader, 3 Specialists, and a bunch of regular troops. Only, with slots for models instead of point costs.

2) How the system could work by locking us up between model types. As in, a Fire Team can only be made of one tipe of model (Intercessors, Reivers, Tactical Marines, Scouts, etc.), instead of allowing us to mix and match units.

[Master Sheol]

What aspects in the army composition you dislike?

 

Lack of points? Fixed number on Fire Teams?

Lack of points lead to fixed numbers for the sake of baance

But the option of taking a specialist over normal trooper will always lead to that

So basically a KT in the new edition will always be "maximize the specialists" leading to fixed builds for each faction

 

For example the DG fireteam made by just 3 DG and 8 poxwalkers

You dont have any other option you cannot have like 5 DG and no pxwalker or a single DG marine leading a poxwalkers horde

 

Or as berzul stated the risk that the SM fireteams culd be made by a fixed type of unit or by a limited number of them (like Intercessors and assault intercessors could be a separate fireteam that cannot include reivers or tactical marines cause they are in different fireteams builds and considering that SM have access to only one fireteam it limits a lot the possibilities to customize your army)

 

The army composition of the new KT is the dumbest thing i ever saw in a GW game IMHO

[Berzul]

 

 

What aspects in the army composition you dislike?

 

Lack of points? Fixed number on Fire Teams?

Lack of points lead to fixed numbers for the sake of baance

But the option of taking a specialist over normal trooper will always lead to that

So basically a KT in the new edition will always be "maximize the specialists" leading to fixed builds for each faction

 

For example the DG fireteam made by just 3 DG and 8 poxwalkers

You dont have any other option you cannot have like 5 DG and no pxwalker or a single DG marine leading a poxwalkers horde

 

Or as berzul stated the risk that the SM fireteams culd be made by a fixed type of unit or by a limited number of them (like Intercessors and assault intercessors could be a separate fireteam that cannot include reivers or tactical marines cause they are in different fireteams builds and considering that SM have access to only one fireteam it limits a lot the possibilities to customize your army)

 

The army composition of the new KT is the dumbest thing i ever saw in a GW game IMHO

Well, we still have to see how the fire teams for the full of the factions actually work.

 

But, yeah. Balance based on model count, instead of model type and/or wargear, is not the best baseline. As you said, the system, as it has been teased, looks like it will lead to static builds for fire teams.

 

In a way, I fear that the game will be "solved" by players overtime. With a specific structure for a fire team being the one, best, and only option, for a build, due to how Fire Teams might work with regards to model availability and specialist operative selections.

 

Also, as a sidenote, I'm curious about the AP system. As in, yeah, a guardsman has two action points while a Custodes has four. Cool. But looks like a custodes team might be about two or three models in a single fire team, versus two teams.of guardsmen numbering twenty guys. So, around 12 action points in three activations agains 40 action points in twenty activations.

 

With the save system for the new edition, I'm thinking not even a Custodes can withstand 40 lasgun shots.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

What aspects in the army composition you dislike?

 

Lack of points? Fixed number on Fire Teams?

Lack of points lead to fixed numbers for the sake of baance

But the option of taking a specialist over normal trooper will always lead to that

So basically a KT in the new edition will always be "maximize the specialists" leading to fixed builds for each faction

 

For example the DG fireteam made by just 3 DG and 8 poxwalkers

You dont have any other option you cannot have like 5 DG and no pxwalker or a single DG marine leading a poxwalkers horde

 

Or as berzul stated the risk that the SM fireteams culd be made by a fixed type of unit or by a limited number of them (like Intercessors and assault intercessors could be a separate fireteam that cannot include reivers or tactical marines cause they are in different fireteams builds and considering that SM have access to only one fireteam it limits a lot the possibilities to customize your army)

 

The army composition of the new KT is the dumbest thing i ever saw in a GW game IMHO

Well, we still have to see how the fire teams for the full of the factions actually work.

 

But, yeah. Balance based on model count, instead of model type and/or wargear, is not the best baseline. As you said, the system, as it has been teased, looks like it will lead to static builds for fire teams.

 

In a way, I fear that the game will be "solved" by players overtime. With a specific structure for a fire team being the one, best, and only option, for a build, due to how Fire Teams might work with regards to model availability and specialist operative selections.

 

Also, as a sidenote, I'm curious about the AP system. As in, yeah, a guardsman has two action points while a Custodes has four. Cool. But looks like a custodes team might be about two or three models in a single fire team, versus two teams.of guardsmen numbering twenty guys. So, around 12 action points in three activations agains 40 action points in twenty activations.

 

With the save system for the new edition, I'm thinking not even a Custodes can withstand 40 lasgun shots.

 

As GW stated on WHC the veteran guardsmen (krieg) will be a single fireteam of 10 models while the guards killteam you can have two fireteams and choose guards (7 models) and/or scions (we still dont know how much scions but my guess is 5 or 6 models) so in the case of regular guard will be 14 models (7+7) 

I don't know how many killteams can survive the share mass of firepower 14 guards (13+1 sgt) can unleash 

 

Ah this is smartly balanced like GW said

Edited July 24, 2021 by Master Sheol

[Berzul]

Sorry, 14 then. I misunderstood the article. My bad.

 

I would venture that an Astartes KT will be one fire team of 5 models of any one type? With perhaps Intercessors mixing regular and assault builds?

 

Would kinda make sense. A minimum size squad of marines, operating as a unit for a critical small scale operation.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Berzul

[LameBeard]

Maybe fire teams will work a bit like maniples in Titanicus.

 

So maybe there is a:

2 intercessor 3 reiver fire team, or alternatively

All Phobos fire team etc

More can be brought out in more supplements - another way to pay for new rules!

[Master Sheol]

Maybe fire teams will work a bit like maniples in Titanicus.

 

So maybe there is a:

2 intercessor 3 reiver fire team, or alternatively

All Phobos fire team etc

More can be brought out in more supplements - another way to pay for new rules!

Considering the 10 units available to Astartes:

DW veterans

Tacticals

Scouts

Sniper Scouts

Reivers

Infiltrators

Incursors

Heavy Intercessors

Intercessors

Assault Intercessors

 

Considering that according to WHC articles SM can field just one fireteam my guess the choice will be between these ones:

 

- DW Veterans

- Tacticals

- Scouts + Sniper Scouts

- Incursors + Infiltrators + Reivers

- Intercessors + Assault Intercessors

- Heavy Intercessors

 

Probably each will be of 5 models with scouts being more models (probably 6) and Heavy Intercessors less (probably 4)