9th Edition Thousand Sons Codex Game Feedback

[Prot]

 

So is this for sure legit? Can we "Surge" after a deepstrike? As we've discussed I play conservative on the on these kinds of combo's just to be safe. I have been treating it just like Warp Time used to work (IE: No warptime or extra movement after deepstrike).

 

Anyway, thanks for the quick write up. Good insight on Prophecy which I suspected, but haven't tried. (You can't beat actual playtest experience with this stuff.)

 

Unfortunately, you can't Temporal Surge a unit that has been redeployed with Sorcerous Facade.

 

See Rare Rules:

 

REPOSITIONED AND REPLACEMENT UNITS

Some rules enable units to teleport or else be repositioned and set back up on the battlefield. Other rules enable units to removed from the battlefield and be replaced by a new, full-strength unit, which is then set up on the battlefield. If a rule causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to it:

1. Rules that are triggered by or apply to units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to that unit when it is set up on the battlefield.

2. Models in units that arrived as Reinforcements count as having moved a distance in inches equal to their Move characteristic this Movement phase. If the unit has a minimum Move characteristic, it counts as having moved its maximum Move characteristic.

 

3. The unit cannot make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary that turn for any reason.

 

...

 

 

That's what I thought.

 

Here's something though... a regular White Scars tournie player often comes off the edge with his Encirclement, and disembarks with a strat from a repulsor/impulsor. I guess that's not legit as well. 

 

Last tournament I was at just before Covid, a guy who I played (eldar) was using post deepstrike move abilties... it got a little heated, and I hated being 'that guy' but we had to get the judges involved and they had the FAQ in hand. The guy had (honestly accident I believe) been doing it all tournament. I was his last game. Ouch.

 

I think a double move after an initial advance is potent enough on a disk. As for post-Facade, I just assume I'll fail the charge so I flame away.

[Tichinde]

not quite as fancy as the flying assassin, I am keen to try a terminator sorc with "Battle psyker, combi melta, Incaendium" teleporting him in turn 2, cast powers (probably swelled by the warp, or assorted witchfire or great cult options) then melta and flame anything left within 12" all for 120 points. maybe try and pull of a charge for a bonus. if I want him to live, teleport some scarabs or webway Rubrics to keep him company.

 

and that's before any great cult shenannigans.

[GreenPlasma]

Ultra-specialized Exalted Sorcerers are without question my favourite part of the new Codex. There’s just so much room for creative play available, rather than defaulting to power units.

 

Best example of this is running Forgefiends over Volcons. 2CP can go a really long way for us. Players choosing agency and customization over undercosted datasheets is such a design win for GW. Even 5x10 Rubric lists don’t feel abusive, it just promotes Obsec vs. Obsec.

 

Probably the best codex of 9th so far.

[Prot]

I think our obsec is probably the single biggest “win” of this codex for myself. But yea the Exalted sorcs are just extremely fun and tweakable. It’s hard to believe that I am constantly looking at removing my newly painted daemon prince to get one in. rehati and dilettante plus all the unique war gear plus the extra Sorc slot is just so hard to ignore.  
 

honestly I don’t know if it’s the model but I always seem to get a little too aggressive with my DP whereas I view my Exalted as a precision weapon. 
 

I almost don’t know what to do with them there are so many options. Yet with my DP I gravitate immediately to the same build every game. 

[Mushkilla]

I think our obsec is probably the single biggest “win” of this codex for myself.

It really is, and so fitting that we are all about playing the mission (just as planned). In the fluff we are very much a lose the battle but win the war type faction.

 

But yea the Exalted sorcs are just extremely fun and tweakable. It’s hard to believe that I am constantly looking at removing my newly painted daemon prince to get one in. rehati and dilettante plus all the unique war gear plus the extra Sorc slot is just so hard to ignore.

I'm so glad this is the case. I mean I love Rubrics, but I feel the low character count rubric spam list would get pretty boring pretty quickly. I think the build a bear sorcerers will be key to the longevity of the book. 

 

honestly I don’t know if it’s the model but I always seem to get a little too aggressive with my DP whereas I view my Exalted as a precision weapon. 

 

I almost don’t know what to do with them there are so many options. Yet with my DP I gravitate immediately to the same build every game.

I find Daemon Princes are a much more defensive piece now that they don't have access to temporal surge (warp time). They are a fantastic counter assault piece with their large base and 3" heroic. Their 65mm base means they can chain out 3" + 2.5" = 5.5" from a rubric/scarab unit and abuse the bodyguard rule. This can be great for controlling objectives when combined with Implacable Guardians. They can also make for a decent fight phase screen if you give them Warpweave Mantle (9" charges fail).

 

I do wonder if we can get away with not running wings on these defensive Daemon Princes. At 140pts they feel a lot more competitive. Could even be a reasonable place to put your blessing powers. They are still movement 8" and can be repositioned with Sorcerous Facade in a pinch. 

 

EDIT: Missed one of your other posts Prot.

 

What I've been trying to figure out is if Thrydderghyre is worth it for that play.

 

I think it has a lot of value for a few reasons. Advance and charge gives you a lot of speed (15+d6) so you don't always need to use Temporal Surge. Fallback and psychic is deadly if you survive as you can assassinate something else. The 6" consolidate means you can deny a lot of shooting by tying up multiple units (two Plagueburst Crawlers next to each other springs to mind). It means you are safe from heroic interventions and you can escape melee retribution if you fail to kill your target. It lets you interrupt to get out of combat (if your opponent isn't careful with their fight order). The biggest bit for me though is that it makes you a fantastic late game skirmisher that can kill stranded models and hide out of sight, allowing the exalted to fill multiple rolls.

 

If only we had a way to prevent units from falling back. We could make a monster.  

 

Also in your example above.... I rarely get away with it, as my SoB group player is always retreating, playing the strat to shoot normal, then blowing me away. I almost never try that trick anymore unless I can tri-point him. (is your opponent unaware of this strat? Or am I missing something?)

 

They did, but hey at least it made them burn CP. If I had Thrydderghyre I could have potentially consolidated into multiple units.

 

So I can't remember what Demagogue's ability is, but when I play against SoB, it's that hot run of 5+ denials that drive me nuts. Plus if I cast something truly obnoxious and can't make it undeniable, he usually tries again with the Strat making it a 5+ attempt, followed up by a 4+ attempt. It's so... anti-Thousand Sons (the build) it's incredibly annoying. smile.png

Yeah Arrogance of Aeons was critical here. As it let me combo Malevolent Charge and Cabbalistic Focus for an undeniable 4+MW and the Demagogue only has 4 wounds. Can't do this if you're running Thrydderghyre unfortunately. 

 

That being said my opponent will now always have his Demagogue surrounded with models so I can't smite/charge her. But it's one more thing your opponent has to think about (in addition to the threat of Sorcerous Facade). We seem to be a faction that excels at punishing positional mistakes.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Prot]

I very much agree on being a faction that punishes positional mistakes.... even defensively with our hyper-'auspex scan'. (Which I think is a great touch for us.)

 

Speaking of wonky positional plays, I have been pulling off some excellent plays with Facade jumping a Rubric squad into the opposing zone, and hitting PBC's or the SoB tanks with "Perplex" which is limiting their ability to hit what the really want to. I'll often flame a blocking squad, then Perplex the heavy unit in question. It's a fun positional play that usually draws an eye roll from my opponent. lol

 

(The more I think about it the more I realize what a troll type of army we can be, especially depending on how transparent you are with your opponent!)

 

I think I'm going to have to pull my D.P. for the time being. I did model him in a way that I can play him with or without wings really... but I just think all the options we're talking about here for the Exalted just have me questioning this.

 

Out of my last 5 or so games I think only 1 game has not featured the DP. 

[Mushkilla]

 

(The more I think about it the more I realize what a troll type of army we can be, especially depending on how transparent you are with your opponent!)

 

Yeah, the funny thing is in some ways the more transparent you are the worse it is.

 

So I have 9 rituals that combo with 9 decent powers, 2 of which are movement powers. These relics add another layer of combos. So basically every modal can be everywhere, do 6+d3 mortal wounds and is obsec. Oh and this sorcerer can move 30+d6 and then charge, and he consolidates after fighting. All the above has 99 useful combinations that you need to be aware of. Also don't forget overwatch and shooting things from reserve. Oh, and I might not use any of these tricks at all, but you need to be aware of them...

 

... Turn 4 sorcerer moves 30" uses doombolt and smite (malefic scroll) to clear a screen for a gap that 10 flamer rubrics facade into. Said Sorcerer now clears a unit on an objective consolidates 3" away from the rubrics who have vaporised something else and is now un-targetable cause of Indomitable Guardians... So your opponent decides to charge the sorcerer... and the rubrics now heroically intervene onto the objective. All this while you ask your opponent "Do you feel in control?" in a Bane voice...

 

Hard to not be like this:

 

 

The problem/advantage is our abilities can be combined in so many ways it's not like there are one or two obvious combos. Like stick Celestine in front of your army within 3" of some bodyguards and make her immune to magic each turn. No matter how transparent you are your opponent is still bound to be surprised unless they have played the army extensively. 

[Prot]

That's funny.... I know I have made a point of memorizing order, and combo's I know I will use most often against certain opponents so that they don't feel that I'm setting up the "cheese tasting phase".

 

Even the 'toll booth" (Culexus) isn't going to work, but like you said, if I explain all of this does it change that I have the counters in hand? 

 

All of this does make me think Black Templars will have us shut down pretty good... in some ways similar to what SoB can be capable of.  Perhaps even World Eaters (if the rumour is true) will be a hard counter. Right now I suppose GK are a strong counter with all the defense, and mortal wound close combat damage.

 

That said, I make a sheet up to go with the army list I make. Typically I can fly through the psychic phase, but I try to judge the severity of glazed look my opponent has to slow it down a bit depending on the situation.

 

At the end of the day if we have a hard counter match up, this where I like to lean on Egleighen's Orrery and those dreadnoughts and see if we still contend. (I have a guy in our group with Dark Angels, and I love shutting off his army wide Transhuman!)

[Mushkilla]

Yeah, if you practice and know the rules/comboes well we are quite a quick army to play. Low model count, 2-3 weapon types, very few passive abilities/auras, non existent command phase, 1-2 assault units and few or no transports. Helps when you don't give each rubric squad a different power.  

We do have a lot of matchups that mess with our psychic phase. Thankfully, most of those armies are quite elite (which means the MW that get through do work). In the case of GK we can deprive them of key powers. We do much better in the obsec department as Dreadknights and Interceptors the key fast components of the GK army aren't objective secure. GK rely on trading in assault and don't have a way to ignore overwatch so flamer rubrics work wonders in my experience. Personally, I find the sisters match up harder/hardest (but not as bad as the wider internet makes it out to be).

In unrelated news I stumbled over this nice breakdown of sons lists attending the LGT:

http://gator4322.temp.domains/~thelo40k/2021/09/24/thousand-sons-at-the-lgt2021/

I think the reason we aren't seeing as many infernal masters is that they are a pain to fit into mono detachment lists. For me one of the hardest decisions with sons is whether to run 1 or 2 detachments. We are just very CP hungry.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Balthamal]

Played a further 2 crusade games this past weekend. Started from scratch since there were going to be 6 people in total doing a mini event so decided everyone starting at the same point would be fine. Ran a slightly tweaked:

 

Cult of Time Battalion

 

Exalted Sorcerer - Khopesh, Scroll, Immaterial Echo, Twist of Fate, Firestorm

Infernal Master - Malefic Maelstrom, Bladed Maelstrom, Weaver of Fates

Terminator Sorcerer - Doombolt, glamour

5 rubrics - 4 flamers, icon, pyric flux

5 rubrics - 1 souireapoer, icon, temporal shift

10 cultists

5 SoT - 1 reaper, hellfyre, empyric guidance

Forgefiend - 2 hades, 1 ecto

 

Game 1: Orks

 

Couple of 10 strong Boyz units, 2 blocks of 5 nobs, warboss, dakka jet, bomba, mechboy

 

Bit of an iffy mission draw with needing to exit off the board. Managed to whittle down the squads of boyz whilst pounding as many mortal wounds into the planes as possible, poor rolling on the first turn nearly cost me the game - he elected to shoot the dakka jet instead of taking the action to get off the board, which if he'd done the latter would have been game over from the off. cultists briefly held up 1 block of nobs behind a 4++ but they wilted and the nobs got off the table. Other unit of nobs rinsed both rubric squads (Overwatch with the flamers was pathetic) and warboss 1 shot my exalted sorc. Fortunately turn 2 I finally put down the bomba and turn 3 the jet whilst simultaneously blowing away everything within reach with the scarabs and forgefiend. Bottom of turn 4 tabling was complete and spent the time knocking off agendas and getting the infernal master and SoT off the table to sneak the win 45-40

 

 

Game 2: Space Wolves (ooorah)

 

Played at a 5PL disadvantage by mutual agreement just to see what it would be like for an organised event in the future.

 

2 blocks of 5 intercessors, 5 fenrisian wolves, 5 long fangs with ML/Las, 5 WGT with axes, 5 incursors, 3 Bladeguard a lieutenant and Ragnar

 

Bit of a non event first turn, tried and failed to kill the wolves with the flamers and combat, lost 8 cultists but just about kept them around. Second turn lost the reaper rubrics, infernal master and had the forgefiend charged by the WGT. Miraculously the Exalted Sorc survived the blade guard and this single thing won me the game. My T2, he, along with my other sorcs laid waste to the blade guard and ragnar before charging the lieutenant and killing him. The SoT chewed through the intercessors and incursors and in turn survived the shooting from the other intercessor squad and long fangs. The fiend held up the WGT long enough for the SoT to have a full round of shooting at them and combat, they nearly died but the combination of glamour and lucky invulns kept me going only to pop Time Flux every turn and get a fresh model back who by the end of T5 had grown back to 3. Wolves were finally cleared with the last shot of the game and victory secured. And those 2 cultists made it from the turn 1 blood bath all the way to the very end and actually LIVED. That's right, cultists lived haha.

 

 

So thoughts. Hell of a lot happier with this iteration. No Tzangors eating valuable PL. Cultists were semi useful with a 4++. The Forge fiend, at least at this stage looks a far superior choice to the VulCon, at lower CP levels it's just eating too much out of what can be done with strats. Which leads into Wrath. Found in this pair of games just how key it is to pick and choose where to burn the 2CP for it. Worked great for the Orks, rendered worthless by Transhuman against the wolves. Fortunately, we have that magic strat for combat against them that more than proved it's worth. Undoubted stars of the entire show were the SoT. Kills with ranged/melee/psyhcics, survived both games, able to anchor the line and punch hard at whatever I want. Seriously considering bumping them to 10 before they rank again and I can't add any more. Infernal Master far more effective in the first game, his actions got me over the line but also more likely me understanding his pacts and placement more. Exalted Sorc is proving to be the lynchpin of the build. Just being able to use him in 75% of situations means he's going to be sticking around. Looking forward to being able to give him some meaty upgrades with the arcane points racked up.

 

Going forwards with 10PL to play with, leaning towards 5 more SoT to bulk out the squad though have picked up a pred as well so may reinstate the VulCon. Bit to ponder before throwing down some more but very much looking forward to seeing this progress.

[Mushkilla]

Played a further 2 crusade games this past weekend...

Thanks for sharing!

 

Honestly, I keep forgetting about wrath of the wronged. It's really good.

 

Great to see the forgefiend doing well. I agree we are too CP hungry for contemptors (especially at 1000pts). Have you considered giving the regular hellbrute a try?

[Balthamal]

Now that games will be over 50 PL and the board can be full sized I'll have more room to screen the fiend properly. Once he's bogged in combat it's game over for him so getting him at least 2 turns of unleashing is one of the things I need to get to grips with.

 

Once we make the jump to 12CP I'll be going back to the contemptor. First and foremost, I just adore the Osiran model. The aesthetic is perfect with their 40k iteration. The other side of the coin is it's probably the one model that'll I'll be buying into PL rather than points and loading it up with a cyclone and possible a lascannon but may just magnetize the ranged arm (keeping the combat weapon for the dream of the Osiran rules being ported to 40K). 

 

I'm going to gradually take it up to 100PL in the expectation that when the csm dex drops next year there'll be fresh detachments coming in but aside from another 5 SoT, I'm not sold on anything in particular being added. Likely more rubrics but we'll see how the games go and what gaps appear to need filling i

[Ryan3000]

Hey guys, I've just finished reading this entire thread and it is FIRE!! The battle reports are great and the ideas that have come out of it are super helpful too.

 

Here are some ideas I have come up with, hopefully they do Tzeentch... proud?

 

In my list I run 2 Infernal Masters, I think getting their abilities off on a 3 up with no deny possible and then still being able to cast a power is really good value and along side them I have a Cult of Magic Exalted on disc as a mortal dealer with the Warpweave mantle. The idea is that one of the infernal masters fails his pact and I use the strat to do a mortal to a friendly and it auto goes off. I put the mortal on the Magic Exalted which activates the +1 to cast from the Warpweave mantle now that he has taken a wound. He also has the Cult of Magic warlord trait devastating sorcery which rerolls witchfire spells so with a +2 to cast has a good chance of super smites or rolling big on Baleful Devolution. He normally casts doombolt, Astral blast and smite (with the rehati ability) for a max of 15 mortals with a super smite and the cabal extra d3 plus the Astral blast splash damage.

[Mushkilla]

Hey guys, I've just finished reading this entire thread and it is FIRE!! The battle reports are great and the ideas that have come out of it are super helpful too.

 

Here are some ideas I have come up with, hopefully they do Tzeentch... proud?

 

In my list I run 2 Infernal Masters, I think getting their abilities off on a 3 up with no deny possible and then still being able to cast a power is really good value and along side them I have a Cult of Magic Exalted on disc as a mortal dealer with the Warpweave mantle. The idea is that one of the infernal masters fails his pact and I use the strat to do a mortal to a friendly and it auto goes off. I put the mortal on the Magic Exalted which activates the +1 to cast from the Warpweave mantle now that he has taken a wound. He also has the Cult of Magic warlord trait devastating sorcery which rerolls witchfire spells so with a +2 to cast has a good chance of super smites or rolling big on Baleful Devolution. He normally casts doombolt, Astral blast and smite (with the rehati ability) for a max of 15 mortals with a super smite and the cabal extra d3 plus the Astral blast splash damage.

 

Glad you're finding this thread useful! Nice trick with Warpweave Mantle thanks for sharing. 

 

Mini Battle Report

 

Mission: The Scouring (from the 2021 Grand Tournament Pack)

My Secondaries: Strangle Hold, Mutate Landscape, Assassination

My Opponents: abhor the witch, Strangle Hold, Oath of Moment

Score: TS 70 BA 22

 

My list:

 

Auxiliary Detachment (Cult of Magic):

 

HQS

Exalted Sorcerer, disk, Rehati - 150

Powers: Firestorm, Gaze of Hate

 

BATTALION (Cult of Duplicity):

 

HQS

Ahriman, disk - 180

Powers: Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates, Cacodaemonic Curse

 

Exalted Sorcerer, disk, Dilettante - 160

Relic: Prism of Echoes and Athenaean Scroll

WT: Master Manipulator

Powers: Temporal Surge, Pyric Flux

 

Exalted Sorcerer, disk, Paradigm of Change, kopesh, flamepistol - 150

Relic: thrydderghyre

WT: Aetherstride

Powers: Doombolt, Firestorm

 

ELITE

5 scarabs, soulreaper, rite of coalescence - 220

Powers: Presage

 

TROOPS

10 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 9 warpflamer, icon, protege - 284

Powers: Swelled by the warp, Temporal Manipulation

10 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 9 warpflamer, icon - 274

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

 

FAST ATTACK

Spawn - 23

 

Points: 1997

Command Points: 8

Cabbal Points: 25

 

My Opponent's list:

 

1 Commander Dante

1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike, Mantra of Strength, Gift of Foresight,  Adamantine Mantle, Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate

1 Sanguinary Priest, Chief Apothecary, Jump Pack, Selfless Healer, Teeth of Terra

5 Incursors

5 Intercessors, auto bolt rifler

5 Intercessors, auto bolt rifler

5 Death Company, Thunder Hammers

1 Sanguinary Ancient, Rites of War, Wrath of Baal

7 Sanguinary Guard, Encarmine swords

7 Sanguinary Guard, Encarmine swords

6 Sanguinary Guard, Encarmine swords

10 Vanguard, storm shield & lightning claw

 

Thoughts

 

This match was interesting but one sided. I wasn't sure how thousand sons would stand up to a mass assault army. But it ended up being fine.

 

Temporal Dilettante Exalted

 

The Prism means you can cast Temporal Surge at 12" or 18" (with the range ritual) and the Scroll means it's all but guaranteed to go off. This means you don't have to take temporal surge on all you units, it can be cast out of deny range and it goes off very reliably. If you run duplicity this sorcerer is great for casting sorcerous facade out of deny range too (as you can cast it at 12" or 18" rather than 6").

 

This exalted sorcerer set up as been an absolute MVP for me. He can combo really well with other exalted sorcerers as they no longer need to waste a cast on temporal surge. For example you can move Ahriman forward cast a bunch of witchfires and then use this sorcerer to temporal surge Ahriman back to safety (reliably and out of deny range). You can also cast it reliably and make it undeniable (if you can't be out of deny range) as you no longer need to use pact from beyond to guarantee that it goes off (meaning you can combo it with cabbalistic focus).

 

This has also freed up my rubrics to take doombolt instead of temporal surge. 

 

Aetherstride Exalted

 

My second MVP. With the ability to move 42-57" (30+3d6+3+6) in a single turn this exalted is a threat that your opponent cannot ignore. So many uses. Whether it's assassinating a key character/unit or jumping forward 15" scoring mutate landscape on an enemy objective and being temporal surged back to safety by the Temporal Dilettante Exalted.

 

Firestorm was underwhelming on him, he almost never used it  and when he did it did 1MW. I think I'll switch it out for Dark Blessing (as it could be combined with the re-roll from an infernal master making it much more reliable again T3)? Or maybe Baleful Devolution?

 

The other new discovery was using 2d6" charge and 6" to "fall back" towards your own lines by charging an enemy unit behind you (eg: some chaff that was used to score ROD in one of your table quarters).

 

Protecting Sorcerers

 

In this game I failed to kill a death company squad and a single survivor almost killed my temporal surge exalted (which would have been crippling). Moving 1-2 rubric models would have made that charge impossible. Don't let your sorcerers get charged. Assume your opponent will roll a 10-12" charge and plan for what happens if you don't kill an assault unit near you (especially the ones with fly).

 

Sorcerous Masters Revisited

 

Initially, I found this rule really annoying. But, it's starting to grow on me. Particularly in that it lets you have the a unit near a unit you don't want to smite (say on an objective) and smite something else by making sure the sorcerer is closer to the unit you want to smite. It also lets you do smite sniping by controlling what the sorcerer can see without impacting the rest of the unit.

 

Perils and the Importance of Temporal Manipulation

 

I let 3 perils go through on sorcerers/exalted/Ahriman this game instead of using Masters of the Immaterium. Instead I just healed them up with Temporal Manipulation. Now, I see temporal manipulation as an invaluable power that effectively gives you more CP.

 

Counter Offensive, Selfless Automata, obsec

 

My opponent multi charged two squads of rubrics (one was on the objective) the other wasn't. He killed the rubric squad on the objective, but I was able to use counter offensive to move one model from the other rubric squad onto the objective securing it with obsec.

 

I played the Aetherstride Sorcerer pretty aggressively hoping in and using doombolt and a malefic scroll smite to kill Dante. He then charge a unit behind him to get back towards my army and then consolidate 6" backwards to get within 3" of some rubrics. He survived my opponents hooting phase using implacable guardians, but later got charged by some vanguard. I managed to use Selfless Automata to move the rubrics 8" onto an objective. Didn't really mater this game, but could have made a big difference had the game been closer.

 

These out of phase movement tricks with obsec can really help us win the primary and catch opponents off guard.

 

Do your psychic action early in the psychic phase

 

One of the turns I made the mistake of not doing the psychic action first and I ended up using the rubrics that were supposed to perform it to smite depriving me of my mutate landscape score for that turn. It's easy to forget your plan when you get carried away smiting stuff in the psychic phase. In future I'll try to get my psychic action out of the way early.

 

Cult of Magic

 

Didn't use the power this game due to the short casting range. I think in this particular list Mutation would probably have more utility. There were loads of times in this game where reducing a units movement by half would have been very strong. Preventing charges, preventing characters from keeping up with units, preventing units from moving onto objectives, a lot of power here.

 

Scarab Occult

 

These were underwhelming in this match up. I do think they have a roll as a unit that can flip objectives by charging onto them and being obsec. But at 220pts they are pretty expensive. I'm thinking I might start running them bare bones at 200pts making them a bit more expendable. Still on the fence.

 

Chaos Spawn

 

Fantastic, both as decoy deployments and sacrificial strangle hold scoring units. I think I'll start to run three squads. I'm also considering running larger squads to take on the role of melee shock troops instead of SOT.

 

Super Smite

 

A lot of my cabal points this game went into Kindred Sorcerers and Wrath of the Immaterium using them to convert 9s and 10s into 11s for super smite. Killing 6 sanguinary guard with two super smites and a regular smite before your shooting phase even begins and your psychic phase isn't even finished is brutal. If you keep you eyes out for any 8s or 9s (before any modifications) you should be getting a super smite a turn if you cast at least 5 smites. If you can cast 6 smites and are prepared to use pact from beyond on the 7th you can get guaranteed super smite. 2-3d6 mortal wounds can really swing a game.

 

Infernal Master

 

I didn't manage to fit one into this list. This game I had two super smites that I rolled 1 on. Having a re-roll would have been very strong here. Will try to give him a go next game.

 

Hope that's useful!

Edited October 2, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Are Verlo]

Thanks for the long detailed writeuo Mushkilla.

 

Those are some good ideas mate. I’ll try the dilletante with both the scroll and prism. The prism often finds it’s way into my list but not on a ES with the scrolls as well.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited October 4, 2021 by Are Verlo

[BoomWolf]

Well, I'll throw this into the lot
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKCCs3rEi4&ab_channel=SaltySnailGaming
 
Where I get only partly mauled by our local drukari topdog
 
Its of dubious quality (both the filming, and the game itself), but we are new to filming stuff, and thus I will use it as an excuse to our mariad of mistakes (especially mine. I actually cheated on accident)
Unfortunately the fact I have very little time to actually play is apparent, as I did not play very well, but still, there is room to learn especially from mistakes.

Edited October 4, 2021 by BoomWolf

[Mushkilla]

Well, I'll throw this into the lot

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKCCs3rEi4&ab_channel=SaltySnailGaming

 

Where I get only partly mauled by our local drukari topdog

 

Its of dubious quality (both the filming, and the game itself), but we are new to filming stuff, and thus I will use it as an excuse to our mariad of mistakes (especially mine. I actually cheated on accident)

Unfortunately the fact I have very little time to actually play is apparent, as I did not play very well, but still, there is room to learn especially from mistakes.

 

 

Nice report! Thanks for sharing. The filming was fine. I have a ton of respect for anyone who takes the time to film their games. 

 

There were a few minor mechanical things that could be worked on. Mainly in sequencing.

 

1) For example when you killed that raider turn 1 (time stamp).

 

Smite 2MW - Raider has 8W

Doombolt 3MW - Raider has 5W

Smite 1MW - Raider has 4W

Smite 1MW - Raider has 3W

Doombolt 3MW (maelstrom)- Raider destroyed

 

Could have been (for one more CP and one less cast):

 

Smite 2MW - Raider has 8W

Doombolt 3MW - Raider has 5W

Smite 3MW (Malefic Scroll) 3 - Raider has 2W

Doombolt 3MW (maelstrom)- Raider destroyed

 

Could have been (for one more CP, two less casts, 4 less cabal points):

 

Smite 2MW - Raider has 8W

Doombolt 3MW - Raider has 5W

Smite 4-6MW (Malefic Scroll + Malevolent Charge) - 66% chance of Raider destroyed, 33% Raider on 1W (in which case one more smite).

 

Not using Psychic Maelstrom in this part of the battlefield meant you could have used it to say cast doom bolt with Ahriman or any of your other rubrics (and or done it in addition to their powers using Great Sorcerer. 

 

Now all of these have different trade offs in terms of resources. For example there's no point saving casts and burning CP/CAB if there are no other targets in range. 

 

2) I'd also generally smite with units that are furthest away first as their smites will get wasted if the the primary target is destroyed and there are no other targets in range.

 

3) There were a few times you could have spent 5 or 9 cabal points to turn a 9-10 into an 11 for super smite. I can't stress how strong it is to fish for these, a 5-6 on a super smite can make all the difference.

 

4) Malevolent charge is only 4 points not 5 points.

 

5) I think the Infernal Master was in range to Interrogate the Homunculus turn 1 for 3VP. If not going back to the sequencing mentioned in part 1, not casting with the DP and using the CP to destroy the raider would have allowed him to interrogate the Homunculus. Working psychic actions into your psychic phase takes some getting used to. I always try to start my psychic phase with "how am I going to do my action". I still mess up. 

 

6) When the scourge dropped down turn 2 I was delighted when you used inescapable forewarning. Implacable Guardians on Ahriman was also nice. 

 

This sort of stuff mainly comes from getting reps in with the army, but is one of the more rewarding/fun parts.

 

Anyway that's all the time I have for feedback. Hope it's helpful. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mushkilla

[BoomWolf]

Nice notes, thanks

 

It's really an issue of experience to see these things on the fly with time being an issue, and as stated I unfortunately did not get to play the new codex much yet,so I struggle to see thess in the heat of the moment.

 

I NEVER remember scroll XD

 

Totally missed the potential interrogation too

[Mushkilla]

Nice notes, thanks

 

It's really an issue of experience to see these things on the fly with time being an issue, and as stated I unfortunately did not get to play the new codex much yet,so I struggle to see thess in the heat of the moment.

 

I NEVER remember scroll XD

 

Totally missed the potential interrogation too

 

 

As we say in my gaming group "40k is so much easier when you are watching and not playing". It's easy for me to watch a video and see possible plays. When I'm actually playing it's much harder to see them. 

[Ahzek451]

So far, what do we rank armies as far as hard anti-psyker counters to us thus far? Focusing on any ability to shut down our psychic and/or matched with abilities that hinder or harm psychic users. I would take a stab at:

1. Sisters
2. Grey knights.
3. Any army with 2+ psykers to throw out deny the witch tests. 

Please fill in the rest as you see fit, but it can be more debatable where to put sub armies within a codex with anti-psyker abilities such as Necron Szarekhan. Granted we still have yet to see what other rules black templar will have, but so far the witch vow is not as mean as it could have been. I wonder where they will end up ranking and what other toys they will bring. 

[Ryan3000]

I am going to throw in Ad Mech as a danger to our psychic game just because of the Serberys Raiders.

 

An 5 man unit costs 80 points, has a pre game move, a normal move of 12", 18" range on their guns and will just kill a sorcerer on average. Oh and can ignore the look out sir rule.

[Xenith]

I am going to throw in Ad Mech as a danger to our psychic game just because of the Serberys Raiders.

 

An 5 man unit costs 80 points, has a pre game move, a normal move of 12", 18" range on their guns and will just kill a sorcerer on average. Oh and can ignore the look out sir rule.

 

That's what Implacable Guardians is for. It's not 'Look Out Sir', it flat out makes the target Character Untargetable while within 3" of a single Rubric or SO unit. 

[BoomWolf]

Then they shoot the other sorcerer.

 

Anyway, mere 2 psykers are honestly a boon for us, not a threat. It's free vp.

[Xenith]

Then they shoot the other sorcerer.

 

Well, I mean if you know your opponent has that ability on a unit and you leave both sorcerers exposed to a T1 sniping, then you deserve what you get? The GW grand Tourney terrain layout, or the Kill Team Ruins kit in your deplyment zone gives some good LOS blocking obscuring options which should protect models, unless you get first turn and move them out of it. Then we also have duplicity redeploy and risen rubrics to block off parts of the mid-board. 

[Ryan3000]

If you have seen the current tournament winning ad mech list you will see that they can trivially blow away any rubric or scarab squads no matter how well they are hidden.

To be fair those lists don't even need the serberys raiders they just delete a thousand points turn 1.