9th Edition Thousand Sons Codex Game Feedback

[Grendaxe]

 

+EDIT+

 

By removing 5 termies, I get another squad of Rubric flamers with another Cadaeum and another Combi-Melta Rhino.

 

 

As far as i know you're not allowed to take a relic more then once.

 

Its also mentioned in the strategem, on the last line:

"Each Relic in your army must be unique and be given to a different model"

[Prot]

 

 

+EDIT+

 

By removing 5 termies, I get another squad of Rubric flamers with another Cadaeum and another Combi-Melta Rhino.

 

 

As far as i know you're not allowed to take a relic more then once.

 

Its also mentioned in the strategem, on the last line:

"Each Relic in your army must be unique and be given to a different model"

 

 

Yes, you're right. That's what I get for 'copy/paste' squads. lol

 

I since took it out, gave him a hand flamer pistol, and other than that I took the Tome for a hopeful CP regen at the beginning of the turn, and that way I don't have the waste an action via Cabal Points to get a command point back.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Murder some imperials tonight Prot and let us know how it goes!

[Ahzek451]

Good luck Prot!

 

Slightly off topic but for me, the best part of the codex isn't even a rule. And possiblpy one of the more narratively brilliant things GW has done in awhile. Read page 25 about the prince the liars and see if you can notice what they did.

[ChargingSoll]

Good luck Prot!

 

Slightly off topic but for me, the best part of the codex isn't even a rule. And possiblpy one of the more narratively brilliant things GW has done in awhile. Read page 25 about the prince the liars and see if you can notice what they did.

Is it how the helmet has multiple mouth ports, they done really well with the art for each cult member.

[Mushkilla]

Good luck Prot!

 

Slightly off topic but for me, the best part of the codex isn't even a rule. And possiblpy one of the more narratively brilliant things GW has done in awhile. Read page 25 about the prince the liars and see if you can notice what they did.

 

Ha that's amazing, I didn't even notice that the first time I read it. Even though it spells it out at the beginning. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Trokair]

 

Good luck Prot!

 

Slightly off topic but for me, the best part of the codex isn't even a rule. And possiblpy one of the more narratively brilliant things GW has done in awhile. Read page 25 about the prince the liars and see if you can notice what they did.

Is it how the helmet has multiple mouth ports, they done really well with the art for each cult member.

 

 

Lies, lies and Tzeentch.

 

It’s a nice nod, though as a dyslexic I noticed it right away, you can’t mess with words like that and not trip me up, thus revealing itself.

[Skerr]

Good luck Prot and we look forward to the BatReps!

[INKS]

From what I understand the ecto guns are too unreliable? A good deal of competitive players seem to be going the other route for now.

[Mushkilla]

From what I understand the ecto guns are too unreliable? A good deal of competitive players seem to be going the other route for now.

I would take what "competitive" players say with a grain of salt. A lot of "competitive" opinions on the internet about 40k are armchair generals regurgitating what they have read elsewhere. Not to say there aren't great commentaries available (eg: art of war) but those players play so many different factions they don't always have the time to go really deep on a faction that isn't strong at the surface level.

 

I get at least one 40k game a week in a competitive environment (chess clocks, good terrain, meta lists, good players), but don't go to tournaments. I play against the top meta lists (the ones you see on goonhammer) all the time run by good players. I've had success with a variety of lists in 9th that the "competitive" internet would shoot down straight away.

 

My last thousand sons game was a victory against one of our supposed hardest match ups running a thousand sons list that most people think is terrible. Does that mean I could win a tournament with it? Probably not, does it mean that it's good enough for 99% of 40k games outside of GTs, probably.

 

So my advice is always: who cares what the "competitive" 40k internet says? If you have the models try it!

Edited August 28, 2021 by Mushkilla

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

From what I understand the ecto guns are too unreliable? A good deal of competitive players seem to be going the other route for now.

I would take what "competitive" players say with a grain of salt. A lot of "competitive" opinions on the internet about 40k are armchair generals regurgitating what they have read elsewhere. Not to say there aren't great commentaries available (eg: art of war) but those players play so many different factions they don't always have the time to go really deep on a faction that isn't strong at the surface level.

 

I get at least one 40k game a week in a competitive environment (chess clocks, good terrain, meta lists, good players), but don't go to tournaments. I play against the top meta lists (the ones you see on goonhammer) all the time run by good players. I've had success with a variety of lists in 9th that the "competitive" internet would shoot down straight away.

 

My last thousand sons game was a victory against one of our supposed hardest match ups running a thousand sons list that most people think is terrible. Does that mean I could win a tournament with it? Probably not, does it mean that it's good enough for 99% of 40k games outside of GTs, probably.

 

So my advice is always: who cares what the "competitive" 40k internet says? If you have the models try it!

 

Yep. There are also different standards for "competitive." Are we talking "walk out of a tournament with a winning record" or "win tournaments consistently?" 

 

The former has a much wider range of list possibilities. The latter requires a list so optimized that it literally pulls off 5-0 records consistently in your hands. People forget that the nature of modern wargame tournaments requires many tournament winners (though not all) to go undefeated. That's a tall order.

 

Not sure how it is now, after AdMech and such, but right around when Drukhari came out, Goonhammer was talking about how Chaos Knights were far scarier than people gave them credit for. They were consistently pulling off 4-1 records, but wouldn't win games by huge margins and had a bad habit of hitting terrible matchups in the early rounds....but then dominating the "losers bracket." They couldn't win tournaments because of that matchup issue, so many top players wrote them off, but they could ABSOLUTELY ruin your day if you drew them, unless you were running their worst matchup.

 

So if you want to win a lot at your local shop, there's a lot you can take if you're not obsessed with winning EVERY game and eliminating as many bad matchups as possible.

 

Finally.....the Ecto guns are Blast D3.....which means against any squad over 5 models, they max out their shots, just like Inceptors. They also hit at AP-3, Damage 3 and now have a 36 inch range. With the means we have to add Strength or Wound bonuses, the Str7 isn't a big deal. Overall, that's actually very solid. Are you looking at posts about the old D3 Damage, 24 inch Ecto guns that were WAY less reliable?

Edited August 28, 2021 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Mushkilla]

I'm playing against Harlequin/Craftworlds/Necrons this week. Going to try out larger rubric squads and a single detachment.
 
Here's the list:

HQS
Exated Sorcerer, disk, Rehati, khopesh - 155
Warlord Trait: Forbidden Lore
Relic: Prism of Echoes
Powers: Glamour of Tzeentch, Weaver of Fates, Pyric Flux

Ahriman, disk - 180
Powers: Doombolt, Firestorm, Temporal Surge

Exated Sorcerer, disk, dilettante, khopesh - 165
Relic: Helm of Daemon Eye, Athenaean Scroll
Powers: Firestorm, Baleful devolution

Sorcerer - 90
Powers: Cacodaemonic Curse, Gaze of Hate

Sorcerer - 90
Powers: Temporal Manipulation, Desecration Of Worlds

TROOPS
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge
8 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 7 warpflamer, icon - 220
Powers: Temporal Surge

Points: 2000
Command Points: 11
Cabbal Points: 25

Looking forward to having loads of CP.

The idea behind Ahriman and the Athenaen Scroll Exalted Sorcerer is it should allow them to work in tandem and do the following combo:

1. Ahriman Doombolt (6)
2. Ahriman Firestorm (6)
3. Ahriman Smite (5)
4. Ahriman Malevolent charge (4)
5. Exalted Sorcerer Use Psychic Maelstrom (8)
6. Exalted Sorcerer Doombolt/Firestorm (6)
7. Exalted Sorcerer smite (6) (Option to Malefic scroll for 1CP)

When double casting doombolt that's:
6+2+2+2+2 = 14MW

When double casting Firestorm you can reliably kill a lot of characters, especially if you use Malevolent Charge.

 

You can swap the order when double casting Firestorm to have Ahriman cast the 6+ smite (small optimisation as he gets a re-roll).

1. Exalted Sorcerer Firestorm (6)
2. Exalted Sorcerer smite (5) 

3. Exalted Malevolent charge (4)

4. Exalted Sorcerer Use Psychic Maelstrom (8)

5. Ahriman Firestorm (6)
6. Ahriman Doombolt (6)
7. Ahriman Smite (6) (Option to Malefic scroll for 1CP)
 

You can potentially have more safety plays with Great Sorcerer or work Gaze of Hate into the combo by adding the sorcerer (though he might have trouble keeping up with the disks).

 

I'm also liking Temporal Manipulation as a way of "ignoring perils" I've started letting Ahriman/Exalted/Sorcerers perils when they aren't at risk of dying. Saves me some CP as I now only use Masters of the Immaterium on Aspiring Sorcerers who perils. It's unreal how CP hungry we are now.

 

Curious to see how the 8 man squads of rubrics handle. On the one hand it means I can't take To the Last on the other hand it makes Grind them Down an option and makes Abhor The Witch/Grind them Down a little harder for my opponent. Better for blessings and some stratagems too.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Ulfast]

That list looks wicked. Tell us how it goes :)

[Prot]

Hey guys,

 

I just wrote up a fairly detailed report on the blog of my game which turned out to be vs death guard.

 

I won't muddy the thread up with a massive post. Here is the full report:

https://prot40k.wpcomstaging.com/2021/08/30/thousand-sons-vs-death-guard-battle-report/

 

 

 

And here's a picture of a scene that's about to go incredibly badly for me. lol

 

But let's cut to the chase, if you want to read the batrep, go ahead and do so. If you just want to know who won it's in the spoiler. I will say this is one of the craziest starts to a game I've had in a long time.

 

The Death Guard would start the game strong, getting top of the turn, but even after losing so many important characters in T2, the Thousand Sons would pull back and win in turn 5 with a 20 point victory.

 

Sorry, I had to move this post as I put it in the wrong topic. :)

Edited August 30, 2021 by Prot

[Mushkilla]

Great game!

 

Gotta love overwatch with flamebrics. Duplicity and objective secure is so clutch.  

One thing. I think your opponent was using cloud of flies wrong:

"Until the end of the phase, each time an enemy model shoots, if that unit is not the closest eligible target or within 12" of that model"

The poxwalker was not visible and therefore not an eligible target. Meaning your army could shoot the blightlords.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Prot]

Thanks for checking it out. I actually didn't know that so I'll have to let him know. That would have been a game changer to a degree although now that I think of it I had to dump a TON into those stupid poxwalkers. lol

[Mushkilla]

@Prot Forgot to ask. How did you find CP/CAP management this game?

 

Also for the record I think Daemon Princes are a solid choice for us. They bring a much needed counter assault element. I'm starting to wonder whether a cheap prince for 140pts (no wings, no sword) or 150pts (with sword) is worth it just for the survivability. Only 15pts more than an exalted sorcerer on disk. 

[Cleon]

Another little query/clarification - from the battle report:

"In his turn he would end up charging Plaguemarines into my OTHER squad of Flame-brics that had Pyric Flux running and the overwatch would wipe the squad!"

 

Everyone else i've seen do a battle report reads Pyric Flux as not working on overwatch as the power lasts until the end of the turn, not until the next psychic phase, so has ended before your opponents charges. Not sure if that's an oversight or a different interpretation.

[Prot]

@Prot Forgot to ask. How did you find CP/CAP management this game?

 

Also for the record I think Daemon Princes are a solid choice for us. They bring a much needed counter assault element. I'm starting to wonder whether a cheap prince for 140pts (no wings, no sword) or 150pts (with sword) is worth it just for the survivability. Only 15pts more than an exalted sorcerer on disk. 

 

I totally agree. It's just even with my Black Legion, and TS prior to the codex, it's always in my list. I was also tempted to try the new relics that are new and locked to the Exalted Sorc, plus stuff like Dilettante is so cool. 

 

It's too bad the Daemon Prices really never got any of that. I was impressed enough that I made that new Daemon Prince (on disk/wings) I think the vanilla sword is solid. And yea, he's great with Plate, but I really wish there was some unique tweak for him. He's great with Ardent scholar (psyhcic tests) and I like to try to use him with Knowledge so far as a result, but that darn Duplicity was really important this game.

 

Another little query/clarification - from the battle report:

"In his turn he would end up charging Plaguemarines into my OTHER squad of Flame-brics that had Pyric Flux running and the overwatch would wipe the squad!"

 

Everyone else i've seen do a battle report reads Pyric Flux as not working on overwatch as the power lasts until the end of the turn, not until the next psychic phase, so has ended before your opponents charges. Not sure if that's an oversight or a different interpretation.

 

Yes. It was a miss type on my part. It was the Infernal Pact I put on that squad (There was almost no other good target for it in this game oddly enough.)

 

Cabal Points: That really sucked. Spoiler alert but after losing so much CAP generation early in the game, I basically just used the +D3 mortals power. That was a key moment in T4 as well.

 

For Command Points: This is funny, but typical me here.... in Turn 1 I gave my opponent a CP (rolled a 1) BUT in every other turn I rolled a 4+ which was really weird. Having 2 a turn is just so huge.

 

I really think I won't be using Patrols. The Relics are just so fun/good, and add flavour. Add in our amazing Strats (Automata Heroic was amazing). I actually can't think of an army I play that has so many situational, but extremely useful strats. For example, because I always had 2 CP (even though my first turn was a brutal use of CP including Risen Rubricae), my opponent has seen me use that Forewarning Strat. It's just so good... he was terrified of coming in hot with his Deathshroud. One time I took about 15 of 20 Poxwalkers down which were infiltrated with a character, which put the character in trouble.

 

Just so many good strats. 

 

One big change with this list was I toned down my Scarab Occult significantly (I usually use 15, or at least 10 minimum, and only used 5) and this afforded me much more board control which was really nice. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Prot

[Xenith]

Got another game in last night, 1k vs the same guard player.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265816-xeniths-chaos-hexfire/?p=5736979

 

The warpflamer with temporal surge/warptime are money., definitely the MVP's of the game, enough movement to get where they need to be and the weapons to do bad things. 

[Ahzek451]

I'm struggling on deciding what heavy supports to go with. If you really step back and look at forgefiends, predators, defilers, dreads...their all not hugely different from each other. In ability and points(dreads can be cheaper of course). And I started to think more about even if we need these units. I hate to be a meta chaser(my area is competitive), but the trend seems to go toward having obsec MSU spam. I think some of the competitive lists don't even feature many long ranged weapons.

So then I challenge the need for heavy support at all. As boring as it may be, perhaps, a strong army features a bunch of SOT and rubrics. As long as your army is geared around mobility. I think I would like to try a list of 1 10- rubric unit with flamers, 1 10-man SOT, and then the rest will be 4-man units. Mortal wound and spell spam. Units shuffling, teleporting, etc.

 

Exalted, a wrecking ball prince, infernal master, rubrics, terminators, 1 volkite comtemptor, a couple helbrutes, and a couple spawn to sneak around and grab objectives. 

Just sucks not having indirect weapons. Might as well stay mobile and flood the board. 

[Xenith]

In my last couple of games I really valued the ability to reach out and touch something from across the board - namely leman russes sitting back. Smite and other 'nearest visible unit' powers are also screened against, causing problems.

 

I did see somewhere that a trio of terminator Sorcs with combi meltas deepstriking and smite/witchfire spamming might be an effective way to deal with things, especially if you can umbral crystal a chaff unit over there to protect them. 3 smites and a doombolt will be 9 wounds on a tank, 2 more from the Cabal rite, plus whatever the meltas can do if you dont kill it. 

[Ahzek451]

Screens are a pain, for certain. But I am curious how an overwhelming amount of mortal wounds/bolters would just decimate these armies over a couple turns. Screens are also potential objective grabbers so taking them out early is kind of a "oh darn" anyway. It's like being a kid and getting the crappy veggies off your plate eaten first before you get into the tasty part haha!

 

Clear the chaff tp give yourself space to move. 

[GreenPlasma]

Flamers have to be the weapon of choice against screens, I don't think anything in the codex can match their damage output against 1W infantry.

 

Exalted Sorcerers are wonderful but they are like quarterbacks, they need an offensive line to enable their best work. Something like 5x Spawn under a 4++ would be a capable screen. I think they would lose a model or two against a Mower Drone.

 

I think Helbrutes are ideal for counter-assault. Their low mobility doesn't matter so much when the enemy is coming to you.

 

Heavy support wise, I like the MVB. In terms of actual long-range fire support? The only unit seeing a lot of play are Volkite Contemptors.

[Prot]

 

 

Exalted, a wrecking ball prince, infernal master, rubrics, terminators, 1 volkite comtemptor, a couple helbrutes, and a couple spawn to sneak around and grab objectives. 

 

 

Well that's pretty similar to what I play..... but I will add the Forgefiend with triple Ecto has given me hope. 

 

Here's my theory... we simply don't have anything great. It's by design I imagine. But we do cheap crap really well. Helbrutes. No one has Helbrutes like we do. Spam 2 or 3, add the Forgefiend, etc. You have a multi targeting threat.

 

I do agree with you it might be more efficient to just flood the table with bodies and smites/targeted mortals, but that's a bit of a yawner for both parties.