What to expect from 9e CSM

[TheWillTheWay]

Ever since the Emperor's Children Legion trait + Icon of Excess made powerfists hit on 2's, this is how I've been watching the debate of whether accursed weapons will be good, knowing I'll be fielding at least 10 terminators every game with as many fists as possible. Especially since it was confirmed that we will keep honor the prince to guarantee those charge rolls. 

 

 

Now if only I could get the stats on those sonic weapons, I'd be willing to do some playtesting of the new codex. 

 

Also does the negate all negative modifiers to hit really negate all modifiers? Or are there some exceptions? Using my sonic weapons to advance every turn without suffering the -1 and normal moving my oblits without -1s seems really strong. It's going to make up my whole battleplan. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by TheWillTheWay

[Warsmith Anarax]

Ever since the Emperor's Children Legion trai +1 icon of excess made powerfists hit on 2's, this is how I've been watching the debate of whether accursed weapons will be good, knowing I'll be fielding at least 10 terminators every game with as many fists as possible. Especially since it was confirmed that we will keep honor the prince to guarantee those charge rolls.

 

 

Now if only I could get the stats on those sonic weapons, I'd be willing to do some playtesting of the new codex.

 

Also does the negate all negative modifiers to hit really negate all modifiers? Or are there some exceptions? Using my sonic weapons to advance every turn without suffering the -1 and normal moving my oblits without -1s seems really strong. It's going to make up my whole battleplan.

I'm assuming yes to ignoring all modifiers. Also oblits don't suffer -1 for normal moving and shooting based on what Chris has said

[darkseren1ty]

Since exploding 6s and other crit effects will be a thing for CSM, I welcome the accursed weapon change. It’ll also allow me to convert their weapons into whatever I want.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Since exploding 6s and other crit effects will be a thing for CSM, I welcome the accursed weapon change. It’ll also allow me to convert their weapons into whatever I want.

Yeah accursed weapons are such a nice quality of life improvement.  No more 3rd party bits or ebay... I hope deathguard gets accursed weapons also. 

[SarLuther]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have played the leaks in a couple of games now and have been chatting on doscord with some players who have tried them out. Terminators are no joke. I tend to go tzeentch with the ap1 bolters (ap2 with strat) and they get done. With AoC and the other tzeentch buffs they are ridiculously tanky. I had jain zhar and 2 squads of 5 howling banshees run into my termies and 6 survived the full assault.

 

Because of the increased tankiness things like chosen terminators will have a role of sustained damage.

Chosen... terminators? Or chosen *and* terminators?

And lol

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir! Bravo

At least you got a reply :D

Sorry my dude what was your question

I try my luck as well. I was asking if there is any new leaks about Fallen. Ok we know Cypher is in the Codex and the unit Fallen is not. But if there is Cypher there must be his Fallen. I guessed something like some previous edition where an existing unit (Chosen, basically) was upgraded to Fallen and worked in synergy with Cypher. Anything like that on the horizon?

 

I know you are on target for the amount of leaks released by normally nobody care for Fallen and nobody will notice your reply

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have played the leaks in a couple of games now and have been chatting on doscord with some players who have tried them out. Terminators are no joke. I tend to go tzeentch with the ap1 bolters (ap2 with strat) and they get done. With AoC and the other tzeentch buffs they are ridiculously tanky. I had jain zhar and 2 squads of 5 howling banshees run into my termies and 6 survived the full assault.

 

Because of the increased tankiness things like chosen terminators will have a role of sustained damage.

Chosen... terminators? Or chosen *and* terminators?

And lol

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir! Bravo

At least you got a reply :D

Sorry my dude what was your question

I try my luck as well. I was asking if there is any new leaks about Fallen. Ok we know Cypher is in the Codex and the unit Fallen is not. But if there is Cypher there must be his Fallen. I guessed something like some previous edition where an existing unit (Chosen, basically) was upgraded to Fallen and worked in synergy with Cypher. Anything like that on the horizon?

 

I know you are on target for the amount of leaks released by normally nobody care for Fallen and nobody will notice your reply

[techsoldaten]

 

I try my luck as well. I was asking if there is any new leaks about Fallen. Ok we know Cypher is in the Codex and the unit Fallen is not. But if there is Cypher there must be his Fallen. I guessed something like some previous edition where an existing unit (Chosen, basically) was upgraded to Fallen and worked in synergy with Cypher. Anything like that on the horizon?

 

I know you are on target for the amount of leaks released by normally nobody care for Fallen and nobody will notice your reply

 

Regarding Fallen: is there a reason they can't just be Legionnaires? Would you actually want special rules for this subfaction?

 

Fallen have always been shortchanged by GW, there's no good reason to expect anything out of them. In 8th, the upside was access to a plasma cannons. The downside was extreme restrictions on unit selection, to the point where it wasn't really practical to run them as a standalone army. In 6th / 7th, IIRC they could not use transports. 

 

If the rumors are accurate, wondering if it makes more sense to create a custom warband called FALLEN. You could select whatever custom legion traits you want, you could choose any units you want, and you could still have a thematic / fluffy army. The only thing I see as downsides is losing access to plasma cannons and your opponents being denied the opportunity for Stratagems like 'Hunt the Fallen.'

[Sception]

How Fallen 'should' be represented is probably off topic, but fwiw:

 

I could (and would like to) see fallen implemented as a subfaction, but wouldn't want to see them as a unit.  They're not a cult like Berzerkers or Noise Marines or Warp Talons or Obliterators, defined by a particular combat style and specific shared wargear or daemonic gifts, warped over time by the influence of chaos to better perform and reflect that specialization.  There's no reason why you would have a specific Fallen unit separate from legionaries, chosen, terminators, possessed, havocs, raptors, helbrutes, rhinos, and so on.

 

The main reason I can see not to support them as a subfaction is that there's already a rather prominent CSM subfaction in black armor with metal trim.  The fallen painting their trim silver instead of gold isn't really a very meaningful visual distinction, particularly since a lot of older Black Legion stuff was also painted with silver trim apart from or even including the shoulder trim.  On they other hand, as a separate, stand alone unit GW could design them as CSMs with robes, and that would handle the easy aesthetic differentiation.  But that would likely still leave the hypothetical unit mechanically redundant with legionaries or chosen, and it wouldn't really fulfill the desires of players who want to run Fallen as far as I understand them - ie as far as I understand them Fallen fans want to run fallen armies, not a couple fallen units in a black legion or word bearers or red corsair army.

 

as for how they /will/ be represented in this book, yeah, so far it seems mostly like they won't be, leaving you to take cypher in an army of whatever legion or warband you like and just call them Fallen counts-as style.

[RolandTHTG]

I always enjoyed running one unit of them as a plasma squad, especially when they had infiltration. My bet would have been on a strategem to make one squad or chosen squad KeyWord FALLEN, have to be undivided but get a bonus near Cypher, but apparently we aren't even getting that. May still just run a chosen squad using my fallen models, even if I can't otherwise distinguish it. 

[Chewinggubacca]

Hey Clockwork, seeing more and more leaks comeing up, do you have something new for us? Maybe something in terms of EC or Noise Marines?

[TheWillTheWay]

How Fallen 'should' be represented is probably off topic, but fwiw:

 

I could (and would like to) see fallen implemented as a subfaction, but wouldn't want to see them as a unit.  They're not a cult like Berzerkers or Noise Marines or Warp Talons or Obliterators, defined by a particular combat style and specific shared wargear or daemonic gifts, warped over time by the influence of chaos to better perform and reflect that specialization.  There's no reason why you would have a specific Fallen unit separate from legionaries, chosen, terminators, possessed, havocs, raptors, helbrutes, rhinos, and so on.

 

The main reason I can see not to support them as a subfaction is that there's already a rather prominent CSM subfaction in black armor with metal trim.  The fallen painting their trim silver instead of gold isn't really a very meaningful visual distinction, particularly since a lot of older Black Legion stuff was also painted with silver trim apart from or even including the shoulder trim.  On they other hand, as a separate, stand alone unit GW could design them as CSMs with robes, and that would handle the easy aesthetic differentiation.  But that would likely still leave the hypothetical unit mechanically redundant with legionaries or chosen, and it wouldn't really fulfill the desires of players who want to run Fallen as far as I understand them - ie as far as I understand them Fallen fans want to run fallen armies, not a couple fallen units in a black legion or word bearers or red corsair army.

 

as for how they /will/ be represented in this book, yeah, so far it seems mostly like they won't be, leaving you to take cypher in an army of whatever legion or warband you like and just call them Fallen counts-as style.

Maybe we will see them as an Army of Renown in a white dwarf or something. Be nice to see it this in edition.

Edited May 12, 2022 by TheWillTheWay

[Voodoom]

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ? Edited May 13, 2022 by Voodoom

[techsoldaten]

How Fallen 'should' be represented is probably off topic, but fwiw:

 

...

 

The main reason I can see not to support them as a subfaction is that there's already a rather prominent CSM subfaction in black armor with metal trim.  The fallen painting their trim silver instead of gold isn't really a very meaningful visual distinction, particularly since a lot of older Black Legion stuff was also painted with silver trim apart from or even including the shoulder trim.  On they other hand, as a separate, stand alone unit GW could design them as CSMs with robes, and that would handle the easy aesthetic differentiation.  But that would likely still leave the hypothetical unit mechanically redundant with legionaries or chosen, and it wouldn't really fulfill the desires of players who want to run Fallen as far as I understand them - ie as far as I understand them Fallen fans want to run fallen armies, not a couple fallen units in a black legion or word bearers or red corsair army.

 

as for how they /will/ be represented in this book, yeah, so far it seems mostly like they won't be, leaving you to take cypher in an army of whatever legion or warband you like and just call them Fallen counts-as style.

 

Part of my point was, when it comes to Fallen, GW always finds a way to drop the ball.

 

Having a flexible set of traits to construct them as you see fit, as the rumors suggest, is far better than leaving it up to the design team.

[danodan123]

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

Edited May 13, 2022 by danodan123

[ApulianAbaddon]

No more leaks?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No more leaks?

The Great Eye is ever watchful.

[Aarik]

 

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

 

 

Wouldn't you get it turns 3-5, as it's essentially the assault doctrine but for CSM?  And i'd imagine it's limited to per phase, but could be wrong.

[Clone]

Just catching up on some of the earlier leaks. An Aspiring Champion in a standard marine squad only get a pistol and a melee Weapon now. Not even the option to just pick a boltgun?

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

 

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

Wouldn't you get it turns 3-5, as it's essentially the assault doctrine but for CSM? And i'd imagine it's limited to per phase, but could be wrong.

There are ways of using doctrines all the time but it demands faith in a certain allegiance...

[TheWillTheWay]

 

 

 

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

Wouldn't you get it turns 3-5, as it's essentially the assault doctrine but for CSM? And i'd imagine it's limited to per phase, but could be wrong.

There are ways of using doctrines all the time but it demands faith in a certain allegiance...

 

Ah man, extra asterisks applied to combat doctrines. I don't like that. 

[BitsHammer]

So I have two question about older leaks: are all powered weapons now accursed weapons, or just the Chosen/Terminator ones?

 

And if that's the case that only Chosen/Terminators, do unit champions have a "melee weapons" wargear list, or is it datasheet locked?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Fulkes

[danodan123]

 

 

 

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

Wouldn't you get it turns 3-5, as it's essentially the assault doctrine but for CSM? And i'd imagine it's limited to per phase, but could be wrong.

Yeah true, I didnt specify but I meant overall these abilities they all got not just word bearers, but that's great for my legion

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Clockworkchris, about the Word Bearers trait "When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit)" is it capped per phase, per turn or per game ?

Its a super doctrine, so would be all in one turn at most, would mean then that shooting and melee get it, plus then melee in your opponents same turn number also, for the entire battle round

 

So, in a single turn it looks like a unit that charges in your turn could shoot, charge, stay im combat in your opponent's turn, and inflict up to 9 mortals from the whole thing

Wouldn't you get it turns 3-5, as it's essentially the assault doctrine but for CSM? And i'd imagine it's limited to per phase, but could be wrong.

There are ways of using doctrines all the time but it demands faith in a certain allegiance...

Ah man, extra asterisks applied to combat doctrines. I don't like that.

Nope no extra asterisks.

[Voodoom]

So, are the MW capped by phase / turn / game ? 

[danodan123]

So, are the MW capped by phase / turn / game ?

Phase in certain turns