What to expect from 9e CSM

[Gene]

With the Horus Heresy legion previews skipping weekends, it seems the pacing of the articles suggests a June 4 pre-order instead of a May 28 pre-order for the new edition of HH. That little extra window, combined with a mid-June release of World Eaters, suggests we might even see CSM this month.

 

I absolutely do not see that happening. WarCom abandoned any mention of CSM aside from the Combat Patrol news for the sake of Horus Heresy. Until that thing is up for the pre-order (and we are at least three weeks before that), we are not getting our book and even then, we will need to wait for about two weeks while GW is advertising their new rules like they do with every Codex. 

 

My guess is we're getting our releases in July.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Gene

[ierp]

In your humble opinion, what could be the most versatile/best loadout for terminators given Chris's leaks please? I just bought a box of terminators and was planing to build them but I don't have any idea on how to equip them. Worst case scenario, I won't play them in wisiwyg, no big deal, but I want at least try to have them as close as possible, at least for the new codex. I paint them as WB but I am not tied to this legion for list building.

[danodan123]

In your humble opinion, what could be the most versatile/best loadout for terminators given Chris's leaks please? I just bought a box of terminators and was planing to build them but I don't have any idea on how to equip them. Worst case scenario, I won't play them in wisiwyg, no big deal, but I want at least try to have them as close as possible, at least for the new codex. I paint them as WB but I am not tied to this legion for list building.

Depends what you want them to do, power fists seem good with the to hit re rolls, im thinking combi flamers for the super doctrine too, dishing out mortals

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

In your humble opinion, what could be the most versatile/best loadout for terminators given Chris's leaks please? I just bought a box of terminators and was planing to build them but I don't have any idea on how to equip them. Worst case scenario, I won't play them in wisiwyg, no big deal, but I want at least try to have them as close as possible, at least for the new codex. I paint them as WB but I am not tied to this legion for list building.

From the looks of things i think what mark you choose will be more impactful than loadout choice. Bolters + fists seems like a safe choice as does bolters + acursed. You could always just paint more later if your loadout choice ends up being sub optimal.

[TheWillTheWay]

I wouldn't say EC are the winners of anything. Given that TS came out in 7th, DG in 8th, WE in 9th, it's safe to say EC will *probably* come out in 10th or maybe 11th if they delay it. The cult Legions lose access to units from the main dex. Yeah EC terminators might seem sweet now with the leaked rules, but I'm willing to bet in the 5ish or whatever years when they come out and get their own codex they will get their own cult terminators (just like TS and DG did before them) and not even be able to use those vanilla terminators with powerfists anymore. If I were an existing EC player sure, it would be fine to add a unit or two considering you already have an army of units that may or may not be playable when they get their own codex, but as someone who does not currently have any EC, I would never start one without their own book to possibly loose access to half of the stuff one would buy and paint.

 

If someone was looking to start EC now I would recommend painting it in your own scheme as a custom warband and just use EC rules, that way when EC does come out and gets it own dedicated units, you can start them proper and the other warband can play with any of the remaining 5 Legions rules or as a custom warband.

As an EC player, I definitely feel like a winner. Lot of cool new :cuss I like.

 

In terms of starting an EC army, who the hell cares about a few units of terminators that might be unusable in however many years? What kind of thinking is that? "Oh these guys look cool, but in 3 years I might not be able to use the models, so I am not going to buy them." News flash buddy, that's the case for literally every army, they never know what's going to be usable in a future edition.

[ierp]

Thanks for you answer guies, I will assemble them with power fists!

[Warsmith Anarax]

Thanks for you answer guies, I will assemble them with power fists!

I would only use the fists that are in the box. Chris' leaks suggest you can only take 3 fists per 5 models.

[Special Officer Doofy]

As an EC player, I definitely feel like a winner. Lot of cool new :cuss I like.

 

In terms of starting an EC army, who the hell cares about a few units of terminators that might be unusable in however many years? What kind of thinking is that? "Oh these guys look cool, but in 3 years I might not be able to use the models, so I am not going to buy them." News flash buddy, that's the case for literally every army, they never know what's going to be usable in a future edition.

It's not just terminators. They won't be able to use regular chaos marines as well or chosen when they get their own book. And nobody knows if they will be able to use the stuff from shadowspear and characters like disco lords. Could be a huge waste of time and money, not just terminators.

 

And news flash buddy that is not the case for "literally every army". Are they about to separate spacewolves, dark angels and blood angels from the main codex right after they put them in it? No. Are bad moon orcs about to lose access to half the orc units and get their own? No. Are leviathan tyranids about to lose access to some of the codex but get their own book and units? No. Literally no other army has a precedent right now that a sub faction is going to split off with its own units and lose access to others within the next edition(s) short of emperor's children (and world eaters here very shortly).

 

I say all this as someone who wants to start an EC army. I see zero reason to start one now when I can just wait and not waste any money.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Dr_Ruminahui]

That may all be true, but doesn't speak to the upcoming codex.  At some point in the future, yes, I may not be able to use all of my current EC models as EC.  When that time comes, I may well be disappointed and have to choose whether to continue fielding my army as EC with some of my models now no longer being fieldable but with a bunch of new selections, or fielding them as some other chaos force (most likely as a "build your own doctrine" renegade army) with all my painted options but none of the new ones.  This may (or may not) cause me to hold back in collecting more EC, or being selective in which new models I build and paint so as to focus on models I predict will still be viable under whatever the dedicated EC codex might bring.

 

But none of that speaks to the rumours regarding this upcoming codex, which does include EC.  Under this upcoming codex, the rumours regarding EC do look good.  Provided the noise marine weapons stay assault (which is likely, but we don't have any rumours about that yet), they will be mobile (able to advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalty to hit) and hard hitting, particulary in melee (no penalties to hit with power fist and thunder hammers).  Now, 9th still favours shooting over assault, so we'll have to see how viable this will be, but I am at least encouraged as it looks like a fun and potentially effective way to play, that while quite different from my rather static 8th edition lists, will encourage me to paint new and interesting models.

 

Now, the new models I build (for example, aspiring champions with power fists, lords with thunder hammers, rhinos to get them places, bikes with flamers, venomcrawlers, etc) for the 9e EC list out of the 9e CSM codex may be illegal under the dedicated EC codex, whenever that come and whatever that might be, but the ability to field the models as my own custom warband mitigate this.  Or, even if largely fieldable, it may not be optimal under the new EC or whatever 10th (or 11th, as there is no guarantee we get a dedicated EC in 10th) edition may bring - but that is a risk any army faces, as rules come and go and point costs go up and down, all of which can make or break a list from a competitive standpoint.

 

Tl/dr:  What units might not be fieldable under the EC codex, whenever it may come, is not relavant to how EC will play under the next CSM codex - and, based on the rumours for that, while it looks like the rumoured rules may favour a somewhat different playstyle and somewhat different units, the changes look like they will be both fun and interesting.  But the proof will be in the pudding, as it were, and that assessment may well change when I have a batter understanding of the rules involved and how they will actually play out on the table.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[WrathOfTheLion]

The way I read it is more that if you haven't already started Emperor's Children, perhaps you should give it a bit of thought before starting one now because you like how their rules are in the now, which are ephemeral.

 

This is sound advice. If Emperor's Children are your #1, but say Black Legion are your #2 and a warband a distance beyond that, then pausing and evaluating might have you doing Black Legion for CSM now and then Emperor's Children at their release, vs possibly having some warband and then having to restart EC next edition.

Edited May 16, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Special Officer Doofy]

The way I read it is more that if you haven't already started Emperor's Children, perhaps you should give it a bit of thought before starting one now because you like how their rules are in the now, which are ephemeral.

 

This is sound advice. If Emperor's Children are your #1, but say Black Legion are your #2 and a warband a distance beyond that, then pausing and evaluating might have you doing Black Legion for CSM now and then Emperor's Children at their release, vs possibly having some warband and then having to restart EC next edition.

That was pretty much it. I have a friend who had death guard raptors, bikers, dark apostle, Havocs and more that lost access to them with the codex. Since alot of them were newer for him it all left a bad taste in his mouth he quit DG all together and is xenos only now. Was only warning people, was never meant to start an argument. I mean yeah their rumored rules look great, probably the best of all the Legions. The strat for replacing one dice with a 6 on a charge is bonkers. That's almost a 92% to make a 9" charge from deepstrike.

[Cheex]

I completely understand the reluctance to start a new EC army now if you aren't sure of what the future holds. After all, I feel much the same way about my World Eaters: I have tons of them sitting in my pile of shame opportunity, including 10 kitbashed Berzerkers that have been on my painting desk now for months, waiting to join the other 20 I have already painted. But I just don't have the motivation to work on them while we have literally no information about what's happening with them just down the road.

 

That said, I think EC are safe for at least the next few years. I don't see them splitting off until CSM get their 10th edition codex, which probably won't be until late in the edition at this rate. If you're worried about what's going to happen with your army a full edition later, then that's the same worry that you should have for any army.

 

My suggestion for anyone thinking of starting EC or WE: build your army (and fluff, if so inclined) to allow for your army to be run either as EC/WE or as a renegade chapter. There will be some elements that you will only be able to run with one but not the other, but there will also be a significant overlap. It'll also help you to adapt your army should the meta change (if that's something that concerns you).

 

That's my plan for my WE, and I'm already eyeing some CSM Legionaries to make my "renegade chapter"...

 

Edit: just had a thought. We know that Index: World Eaters will provide rules for running WE using Codex: CSM. We also know that Cult units (other than Noise Marines) won't be in Codex: CSM, but there will be rules to splash them in without losing Legion rules (or, presumably, Army abilities).

 

What if the opposite will be true for spinoff codexes in the future? That is, Codexes: WE, DG and TS will be standalone codexes, but with the ability splash in certain CSM units without losing purity bonuses?

 

No real evidence to suggest this is the case, and we won't know until Codex: WE (which I'm not expecting until next year). But it could be interesting.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Cheex

[Prophet of the Despoiler]

Has anyone seen anymore build instructions or even images from inside the codex? With the image having dropped for the front cover it must be in the wild somewhere.

[ierp]

 

Thanks for you answer guies, I will assemble them with power fists!

I would only use the fists that are in the box. Chris' leaks suggest you can only take 3 fists per 5 models.

 

I didn't see that, I thought there were enough in the box but I have just checked and there is just two of them :

 

- 1 chain axe

- 1 chainfist

- 1 power sword

- 1 power axe

- 1 power maul

- 2 power fists

- 2 lightning claws

- 1 heavy flamer

- 1 reaper autocannon

- 5 combi-weapons

 

[SarLuther]

 

 

 

Thanks for you answer guies, I will assemble them with power fists!

I would only use the fists that are in the box. Chris' leaks suggest you can only take 3 fists per 5 models.

I didn't see that, I thought there were enough in the box but I have just checked and there is just two of them :

- 1 chain axe

- 1 chainfist

- 1 power sword

- 1 power axe

- 1 power maul

- 2 power fists

- 2 lightning claws

- 1 heavy flamer

- 1 reaper autocannon

- 5 combi-weapons

 

Just checked and there are three power fists and 1 chain fists. My guess is that you don't count there is no complete fist in the kit. You get "fat" hands and separate fingers.

[danodan123]

I swear we had this discussion quite a few pages back :D

[Markov Gheist]

Is there any indication for Creatures of Bile being represented in some way other than Fabius' profile itself?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I swear we had this discussion quite a few pages back :D

Pretty sure we did.

 

Is there any indication for Creatures of Bile being represented in some way other than Fabius' profile itself?

If you check the first page, the topic post has a summary that is somewhat up to date, and there's rules for Creations of Bile listed. Edited May 16, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Markov Gheist]

 

Is there any indication for Creatures of Bile being represented in some way other than Fabius' profile itself?

If you check the first page, the topic post has a summary that is somewhat up to date, and there's rules for Creations of Bile listed.

 

 

I see, they were nested into a spoiler so the browser search didn't pick it up. Thanks! 

[Sception]

... my pile of shame opportunity

Ooh, I like that

[olsol]

Do we know if the DAEMONKIN units (i.e. Possessed) also have the DAEMON keyword???

[TheGodOfHammers]

Do we know if the DAEMONKIN units (i.e. Possessed) also have the DAEMON keyword???

 

I believe it was stated at some point that the DAEMONKIN keyword replaced the DAEMON one, but I also could be very wrong. I would assume that is the case though

[KalmDown]

 

 

Do we know if the DAEMONKIN units (i.e. Possessed) also have the DAEMON keyword???

I believe it was stated at some point that the DAEMONKIN keyword replaced the DAEMON one, but I also could be very wrong. I would assume that is the case though

I also remember seeing that, but can't be bothered to find the source. Probably in the big dump on page 82.

[darkseren1ty]

Do we know if the DAEMONKIN units (i.e. Possessed) also have the DAEMON keyword???

I actually imagine that they created the daemonkin keyword so that there will be even less synergy or chance for broken combos with the chaos daemons codex when that is released. However, that could be only to prevent master of possession shenanigans with summoned daemons. The thousand sons and death guard daemon engines have the daemon keyword. DG Possessed do not have the daemonkin keyword. They may be updated to bring them in line…

 

I think it’s likely they’ll have both daemon and daemonkin keywords

[Prophet of the Despoiler]

Why aren’t warcom posting more stuff.