What to expect from 9e CSM

[Clockworkchris]

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

[KalmDown]

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

I feel like Chris teasing us like this is an excellent example of The Dark Knight's "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line.

 

(Just kidding, Chris, I like hearing about your playtests)

 

Also, does this mean the Slaanesh strat is auto 6 a roll?

Edited May 25, 2022 by KalmDown

[Clockworkchris]

 

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

I feel like Chris teasing us like this is an excellent example of The Dark Knight's "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line.

 

(Just kidding, Chris, I like hearing about your playtests)

 

Also, does this mean the Slaanesh strat is auto 6 a roll?

I can neither confirm nor deny any of the above inquisition.

[Clockworkchris]

 

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

I feel like Chris teasing us like this is an excellent example of The Dark Knight's "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" line.

 

(Just kidding, Chris, I like hearing about your playtests)

 

Also, does this mean the Slaanesh strat is auto 6 a roll?

Thats the thing ive always been the villain.

 

"Just because im a "bad guy", doesnt mean im a bad guy"

 

Ave dominus nox

[Mike8404]

Alright, since we're a little light on the leaks, I've started looking at what we do have and how that could work for me. I'm planning to build a Renegade warband to act as an in-lore ally to my World Eaters, since I'm expecting a lot of my WE units to become unusable when they get a Codex, so this way I can just keep using what I've got as a separate army.

 

With that in mind, I'm looking at the Legion traits that benefit melee and seeing what works best for a Khorne-themed list. I'm happy to run "counts as" for any Legion traits if they fit what I'm going for. Here are my choices right now:

• Night Lords: +1" to advance and charge makes sense for a bunch of blood-mad psychos. They're so covered in gore that they are frightening to fight. The WLT that gives +D3 attacks and permanent Slaughter doctrine just seems perfect.
• Creations of Bile: they hit hard and move fast. I just hope they don't require Bile to be in the army.
• Custom traits:
• I wonder if it's possible to combine the "+1 movement & strength" and "+1 to advance and charge rolls" traits? If so, that could make for some pretty speedy renegades, especially on bikes (of which I have plenty!).
• Alternatively, the Khorne-specific one (6s to hit autowound) and the "after killing a unit, you're in all doctrines" one both seem thematic. Probably wouldn't use them both together, but instead combine one with one of the movement bonuses.

So far, I'm leaning towards either counts-as NL, or Khorne Renegades with +1 to advance and charge.

 

Thoughts?

That's exactly what I'll be doing with my NL too! A Khorne NL warband that can ally with WE sounds like a lot of fun. Plus, I have a feeling the new WE models will look really menacing in Midnight Clad ;)

[Warsmith Anarax]

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

Does the MoE have a cap on the number or mortals he can inflict that way?

[Clockworkchris]

 

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

Does the MoE have a cap on the number or mortals he can inflict that way?

Nope on the unmodified 6s to hit cause 6mw and the sequence stops. So no wound roll afterward, although if you arenin the slaughter phase, the 6 is an exploding attack so although its sequence ends, you still get an extra hit in for a wound roll.

[Abaddon303]

wait 6s do 6MWs? I thought the WLT lets you change a single dice roll?

I'm not doubting you, but I'm clearly missing something in the leaks as I can't see how you could kill 5 allarus with him even with super hot dice?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Abaddon303

[Warsmith Anarax]

wait 6s do 6MWs? I thought the WLT lets you change a single dice roll?

I'm not doubting you, but I'm clearly missing something in the leaks as I can't see how you could kill 5 allarus with him even with super hot dice?

The master of executions axe does 2mw on an unmodified 6 to hit. He's saying he was able to auto 6 one of the dice with a NL warlord trait and auto 6 another with something related to slaanesh, probably a strat we haven't heard about yet

[Abaddon303]

ah okay. so end up with 4 6s from 6 attacks, those 4 6s do 8MWs and then because they explode you basically get to still continue that attack like the 8 MWs are in addition to the 5 or 6 hits you made.

Yeh that's pretty tasty.

I like that the MoE is an elite character now, he'll def be much more in my consideration now as at the moment the HQ slot is so congested.

Will be interesting to hear more about how the psychic upgrade for CSM units works because if it lets you do a full cast with each unit, a couple of MSU legionnaires could fill the role of taking a sorcerer. Frees you up to fit a lord, a lord discordant, dark apostle etc

[Cheex]

Don't sleep on Word Bearers. They are surprisingly good now.

 

Rerolling hits is huge and will allow you to fish for 6. Master of Executions (that now do 2 MW on hits of 6, with 6 attacks base) will be especially brutal.

MW on 6 to wound are great, as our best melee units (Possessed, Chaos Spawns, even Legionaries) have a large volume of attacks, you should be able to reach the 3 MW cap easily.

 

With luck the two Daemonkin Word Bearers stratagems will be good and buff even further the already amazing Possessed.

As Word Bearers we can expect some support for Dark Apostle that are already extremely good (trans-hit, +1 to wound, advance and charge... not just for the Apostle, for a core / culist / character within 6" according to Chris).

 

 

I did consider Word Bearers, the reroll to hit is very nice, and the 5++ against MWs seems like it would fit an anti-psyker army well. Lorewise it also fits well with my army, who are zealous fanatics for Khorne. I'll have to keep that option in mind.

[MDops]

Update post, no new info

Hidden Content

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine''; turn 1: Heavy/grenade/Rapid fire
• Massacre ''Doctrine''; turn 2-3: Rapid fire/assault/pistol
• Slaughter ''Doctrine''; turn 3-end: pistol/melee/assault

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
• cost points
• Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound, IF S=T or S/2>=T
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save (this is per unit per turn)
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

Prayers

• basic prayer still reroll all hits in melee
• +1 to wound in melee
• 1-3 hits always fail, no rerolls allowed
• 6" aura when doing leadership test roll 2d6 discard the highest & fail action & fight last
• +1 to hit (GONE)
• 5++ buble is gone you said (GONE)
• priest gets +2a(was +3) and +2ap in addition to weapon weapon ap
• Tzeentch: +d3 wounds (GONE)
• Slaanesh: advance and charge
• Khorne: S+2 (GONE)
• Nurgle: T+2 (GONE)

Hereticus discipline:

• warptime still there but no charge
• +1 to hit
• no invul on 1 ennemy unit
• 1 model get s+2 & +1a
• 3d6 each 4+ = 1mw
• if d6 is bigger then T, then d3 MW and units within 6" take 1mw on a 4+
• Tzeentch 4++
• Slaanesh 5+++
• Nurgle -1 to hit
• Warptime: unit affected by warptime cannot charge afterwards

Malefic discipline:

• DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators
• +1 to wound
• Bring back a DAEMONKIN model
• 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge
• Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it
• 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit
• +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

Generic WLT

• for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength

Generic Stratagems

• for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit
• JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
• JUMP unit : -1 attack
• daemonforge: +1 BS/WS for daemon engines
• bikers, if they advance -1 to hit
• nurgle only transhuman physiology 4+
• Legionnaires can shoot or fight twice (only source of fight/shoot twice strats)
• +1 to hit to CHOSEN or TERMINATORS
• fire frenzy: HELBRUTE at the end of the shooting phase, if it was hit, can fire at the unit that shot at it or shoot at the nearest ennemy unit
• Another character can have a WLT

Legion rule:

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec
• +1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base
• the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves
• +D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord
• +1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE
• fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE

Relics

• FLY relic (daemon prince only it seems): moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+
• claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
• vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions; infantry only
• flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same
• stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12"

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin
• no fall back strat
• fall back and charge
• -1 to hit if fired upon
• rerolls to hit if Ld is higher then ennemies (used to be +1 to hit)
• there are no more stratagems that influences moral
• lost the stratagem that gives +2 to the charge and +1 to hit in melee from terrain
• if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

Stratagems

• 5+++ vs MW
• -1 damage for core infantry & daemonkin.
• reduce incoming ap strat is GONE
• cultist bodyguards are still there

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagems

• no more strat for possessed +1d
• the auto pass psyker spell is still there
• the auto save strat has been changed to take 0 damage instead
• they have 2 strats that affect daemonkin or possessed

BL

• ignore CA
• +1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

• strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.
• 1 unit can be considered destruction/massacre/slaughter at the same time, core units only

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

WLT

• sniper warlord trait
• redeploy for up to 3.units
• a cultist buff
• i am alpharius is still there

relics

• one turn for battle ennemy strats cost +1cp on a 4+
• power sword with dd3 and causes -1 to hit (GONE)
• bolt weapons wounds on +2(except vehicules and titanic), ignores cover
• the combi bolter relic must be gone since no way foe HQ to get combis (GONE)
• +2 armor, and transhuman
• armor with 3d6 movemebt that can "ghostwalk" through units(still there)

Stratagems

• the sabotage strat is now auto explode
• fall back and shoot
• 12" deepstrike denial
• shoot a unit that deepstrikes nearby
• forward operatives, pregame move
• conceal is replaced with untargetable beyond 12"

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)
• Noise Marines are troops
• dont need to pay for slaanesh marks

Stratagems

• honour the prince is still there
• the sonic weapons strat does mortal wounds now, no longer +1s +1d

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
• After charging, in melee 6s to hit autowound (khorne specific)
• In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (tzeentch specific)
• +1 to wound vs half strength unit (nurgle specific
• +1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (slaanesh specific)
• +1 to advance and charge rolls
• +1 to hit when targetting clossest ennemy unit
• +1 movement & strength
• Ignore CA/Fallback and shoot/fallback and charge; but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (All uncompassing; unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)

WE

• Not in the codex

Datasheet info:

Chaos lord

• base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
• has access to all melee weapons
• can only have bolt or plasma pistol

Abbadon

• 8A s10 ap4 d3, 6+ to wound cuases d3 MW (drachnyen pierce)
• 16A s7 ap4 d1 (drachnyen sweep)
• always fights first
• -1 to wound
• first failed save reduced to 0 damage
• +1s on the charge
• can only take max 3 damage per phase
• full rerolls
• charge bonus
• supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)

Disco lord

• +1 to hit VEHICULES in melee
• Bs2 ws2 s4 t6 9w 6A LD9 2+/5++
• Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet)
• Techno virus injector: in engagement range all weapons get +1 damage vs VEHICULES
• impaler chainglaive: Suser ap3 d2; on the charge +1 to wound
• the melta mouth weapon is a melta pistol
• claws and tail are 4 additional attacks @ S6 ap2 d2
• mechadentritees: 4x s4 ap0 d1
• ability to wound vehicules: you can corrupt a vehicule: roll a d6 for every wound that a vehicule has on a 6s=1MW (maximum of 6); if you kill an ennemy vehicule in melee you can corrupt 2 different vehichles instead of just 1. The double corruption ability is gained for the rest of the game. Happens in the command phase.

Warpsmith

• Can heal vehicules
• +1 to hit for VEHICULES for shooting

MoE (elite slot)

• Rerolls wounds v char
• 6" heroic intervene
• Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends
• Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion)
• Gains a wound and an attack

Dank Apostle

• all god specific prayers are entirely new
• cast 1 prayer (stratagem to cast another prayer)
• no longer has illusionory supplication

MoP

• Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker
• Cast 2 deny 1
• When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast
• Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12"

Sorcerer in terminator armor

• can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

• its a squad, with a banner, a priest and a psyker, + some extra bullet catchers
• The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
• psyker: cast 1 deny 1
• priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
• squad of 5 models

Lucius

• gains 3 additional attacks
• +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

• can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Huron

• Gains a toughness,wound, attack & leadership
• His claw doubles his attacks instead of being a powerfist.

Cypher

• In the codex
• can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries (5-10)

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC)
• Ld9
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Cultist

• 10-20

Accursed cultists

• a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
• 3-6 big models per unit
• 5-10 small models per unit
• big mutant at S5 t4 1W & ap2 in melee
• small mutant are S4 t4 1W & ap1 in melee

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army, or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait
• noise marine weapons are GOOD

Fallen

• No in the codex

Exalted Champion

• Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
• Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
• Cannot change loadout
• Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

Chosen (5-10)

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
• WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
• can take icon
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of traits from the list of build a warband traits
• Loadout:
• everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
• 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators (5-10)

• Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
• 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
• 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
• 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

• Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed (5-10)

• 9'' s5 t5 3w 5a 3+/5++
• Melee Suser ap2 d2
• Take 2 slots in transports
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a
• Chainsword and pistol
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 plasma pistols
• Champ
• Can take plasma pistol
• Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• 12" bs3 ws2 s7 t7 9w 6a 3+/5++ (no longer degrades)
• Assault 3 s6 ap2 d2
• Melee Suser ap3 d2
• now gives +1 to psychic tests

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

• 14" bs3 ws3 t5 3w 3a ld9 3+
• Replace pistol for chainsword
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
• Icon
• Champ
• Plasma pistol
• 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators (1-3)

• 5" bs3 ws3 t5 5w 4a ld9 2+/5++
• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• Not core
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• 24'' range
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

Havocs (5)

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

Noctilith Crown

• T8 14w
• Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades
• Increasing aura every turn of -1l/4++ vs shooting
• PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION: perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell

Other:

• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
• No way of giving jump pack to characters
• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
• Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

• Legionaires
• Chosen
• Possessed
• Bikers
• Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

• Raptors
• Warptalons
• Helbrute
• Havocs

Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura (these stack among each other):

• Daemon prince
• Accursed cultists
• possessed
• Chaos spawn
• Raptors

DAEMONKIN Keyword:

• Obliterator
• Master of possession
• Possessed
• Warp talon

Just a bump to dig the list out Edited May 26, 2022 by WarriorFish
Hidden tag added

[Warsmith Anarax]

 

 

Ive been doing a lot of playtesting recently slammed a MoE of slaanesh with the NL Wlt to auto a hit/wound/advance/save into a 10 man allarus squad. He managed to kill like 5 of them. :cuss was insane. Rolled to 6s, then auto 2 other 6s. All in the slaught phase. :cuss was popping

Does the MoE have a cap on the number or mortals he can inflict that way?

Nope on the unmodified 6s to hit cause 6mw and the sequence stops. So no wound roll afterward, although if you arenin the slaughter phase, the 6 is an exploding attack so although its sequence ends, you still get an extra hit in for a wound roll.

Question for clatification, you said in the summary post that the executioner's axe doesn't explode. Does slaughter override that and allow it to generate extra hits?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The language Chris used in his summary was that it inflicted 2 mortal wounds and then the attack sequence ends - which is identical to the wording on many other weapons that can do mortal wounds rather than their regular damage on certain rolls.

 

Now, how that interacts with the exploding 6s rule is anyone's guess and not one that I think Chris would be particularly "in the know" as it is a general question regarding rules interactions rather than a question of what a datasheet says.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Balthamal]

The axe not exploding on it's own doesn't preclude it from blowing due to WLTs, doctrines etc. In fact I'd be surprised if it explicitly stated it can't explode under any circumstances because it's then going from useful in some situations to worthless

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm not arguing that it doesn't (indeed, I'm inclined to agree with you), just that the interaction would be a general rules question rather than one that a rumour from the upcoming codex, and as such really isn't a question we should be pestering Chris with.  Or put another way, its not a question on which Chris's views carry any more weight than anyone else's.

[TheWillTheWay]

 

 

Anybody see on twitter Valraks post saying he saw Angron?

Ignore that tweet, went out drinking and someone got my phone while I was at the bar and posted that, only realised this morning xD

 

 

That's happened to me a few times. Only later, upon reflection, I discovered the "someone" who made the post was myself.

 

Smartphones should have a breathalyzer and geolocation feature that stops posts at the pub.

 

 

 

Can't wait for people to be shocked and appalled by how many points possessed are inevitably going to go up. They look like they are going to hit like absolute freight trains - basically a greater possessed per model.

 

Obliterators happily welcome Possessed to the 100+ ppm club. 

I really like the new obliterator profile. I feel like the 1 damage profile is very strong.  Makes a havoc with reaper chaincannon pretty much irrelevant. They look like they're balanced directly against broadsides, their profiles are a little worse than the equivalent Tau weapons, but they have access to all three. I hope that that they'll be priced down to between 70 and 80 points. 

 

Combined with a master of possessions they look terrifiying. The spells that revive the models and give attack bonuses (assuming they can be used on ranged weapons) seem pretty good.) In a 2k list I think I'll be running 2 squads of three.

[Abaddon303]

I'm not that impressed by the oblits tbh but at least they're a little less randumb. Shooting on the weakest profile they're like a pair of assault cannon terminators which are 43pts each I think?

On the strongest profile it's like a pair of more consistent lascannons. They're better than centurion devestators which GW have costed at 95pts for some reason.

Without core I really hope they don't stay at like 95pts but I think they probably will which means they're a hard pass.

If the MOP really can revive one they might be a little more interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if the spell is limited to Daemonkin core our something though

[TrexPushups]

No way they are going to ask players to pay 500+ points for a 5 strong unit of possessed.

 

That is an entire Chaos knight and the box is going to have 5 models.

 

The tease that intrigues me is Black Legion being able to hotswap legion traits.

 

Sounds amazing and I love the idea of recruits from other legions using their skills

[KalmDown]

I'm not that impressed by the oblits tbh but at least they're a little less randumb. Shooting on the weakest profile they're like a pair of assault cannon terminators which are 43pts each I think?

On the strongest profile it's like a pair of more consistent lascannons. They're better than centurion devestators which GW have costed at 95pts for some reason.

Without core I really hope they don't stay at like 95pts but I think they probably will which means they're a hard pass.If the MOP really can revive one they might be a little more interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if the spell is limited to Daemonkin core our something though

Something to remember about new Obliterators is they seem to have absorbed the role of Mutilators. Their melee is nothing to sniff at. 4s 10 ap3 d2 attacks each without a hit penalty on what is essentially a power fist. When combined with the Word Bearer trait they could be seriously deadly in a fight.

[TheWillTheWay]

 

I'm not that impressed by the oblits tbh but at least they're a little less randumb. Shooting on the weakest profile they're like a pair of assault cannon terminators which are 43pts each I think?

On the strongest profile it's like a pair of more consistent lascannons. They're better than centurion devestators which GW have costed at 95pts for some reason.

Without core I really hope they don't stay at like 95pts but I think they probably will which means they're a hard pass.If the MOP really can revive one they might be a little more interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if the spell is limited to Daemonkin core our something though

Something to remember about new Obliterators is they seem to have absorbed the role of Mutilators. Their melee is nothing to sniff at. 4s 10 ap3 d2 attacks each without a hit penalty on what is essentially a power fist. When combined with the Word Bearer trait they could be seriously deadly in a fight.

 

They do definitely pack a punch, but they're lacking the durability of a broadside. Another reason I am optimistic that they will be priced similarly to the broadside. The way their designed makes me think the game developers consider them to be something of a side grade to each other. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by TheWillTheWay

[Balthamal]

I'm not arguing that it doesn't (indeed, I'm inclined to agree with you), just that the interaction would be a general rules question rather than one that a rumour from the upcoming codex, and as such really isn't a question we should be pestering Chris with.  Or put another way, its not a question on which Chris's views carry any more weight than anyone else's.

 

Sorry I was actually agreeing with your point. Reading it back it comes across bit rough round the edges

[Abaddon303]

Broadsides are about 90pts right? Depending on loadout.

The melee is nice on oblits but def more of a get out of jail card than something to be planning around.

Again the melee output is similar to an assault centurion and the low strength shooting profile is probably comparable to the flamers and hurricane bolters of a centurion. They're like 65pts and not considered good. Obviously the oblits are more versatile, but if you're taking them for the high rate of fire and melee then they'll be overcosted at c90pts.

[techsoldaten]

 

Something to remember about new Obliterators is they seem to have absorbed the role of Mutilators. Their melee is nothing to sniff at. 4s 10 ap3 d2 attacks each without a hit penalty on what is essentially a power fist. When combined with the Word Bearer trait they could be seriously deadly in a fight.

 

Melee Obliterators are certainly an interesting change. My concern is ppm, good shooting + melee tends to be expensive.

[darkseren1ty]

I wonder how these new cultist units are going to fit into things.. will the mutants be additional troops choices and the big muties being elites? Obv the 5 man squad is an HQ. Will we be able to field an army entirely of cultists and mutants or will that be an army of renown like that hot mess of a tzaangor army?

 

Also, what units are likely to have the core keyword?

Legionaries, chosen, terminators, havocs are a given. What about bikers and raptors?

 

Presumably the daemonkin guys will get their own HQ buffers (wonder if the daemon prince will buff them further).

 

And with the CA change in the future of less initial CP, how will our faction which is already extremely CP hungry, survive?