What to expect from 9e CSM

[Butcher_of_Malakir]

It's a shame, the old bikes don't fit in with the new CSM models. I have 2 3bike squads armed with meltas, so it would suck if they removed their options for special weapons... As that's what our faction seems to be lacking now that terminators, chosen and raptors weapons will be limited to box content.

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

It's a shame, the old bikes don't fit in with the new CSM models. I have 2 3bike squads armed with meltas, so it would suck if they removed their options for special weapons... As that's what our faction seems to be lacking now that terminators, chosen and raptors weapons will be limited to box content.

Very doubtful that they'll remove the special options in the datasheet, it looks to me like it's a simple repackage and because there were never any specials in the box, they haven't listed them in the pamphlet. Just because they aren't there, doesn't immediately mean that you can't have them. There's no melee weapons on there either, and you can be garunteed that they'll be able to take them, because otherwise no one would buy the kits. 

[KalmDown]

 

Hi everyone! long time lurker, first time posting.

 

Speaking of daemon princes... what dou you guys think will be the magical powers substitute thingie for khornate daemon princes? Do you think it will be something like the AOS khorne DP got?

Daemon princes are getting a big glow up

Thank you!

[Prophet of the Despoiler]

Whose gonna take the plunge and buy abaddon for the stat line haha

[Agrest_IW]

OK, no new bikes , so figs need new versions are :
 

- csm bikes 

- raptors/warptalons

- defiler

- csm term lord / sorc

 

and box version of Obliterators

 

Not that bad

https://imgur.com/gallery/AF8kNNz

 Dude!! open it!! show stats!

[Plague _Lord]

OK, no new bikes , so figs need new versions are :

 

- csm bikes 

- raptors/warptalons

- defiler

- csm term lord / sorc

 

and box version of Obliterators

 

Not that bad

https://imgur.com/gallery/AF8kNNz

 Dude!! open it!! show stats!

 

 

Raptors and warptalons are fine... they don't need new models.

 

As for the bikers - let's be ready for no special weapons rules... outriders don't have them do they?

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

 

OK, no new bikes , so figs need new versions are :

 

- csm bikes 

- raptors/warptalons

- defiler

- csm term lord / sorc

 

and box version of Obliterators

 

Not that bad

https://imgur.com/gallery/AF8kNNz

 Dude!! open it!! show stats!

 

 

Raptors and warptalons are fine... they don't need new models.

 

As for the bikers - let's be ready for no special weapons rules... outriders don't have them do they?

 

Again, I highly doubt this is going to happen. Like I said in an earlier post, they appear to be the same as their loyalist brethren and they can take specials. Everyone just needs to calm down and wait for the codex.

[Khornestar]

We shall see! Pretty disappointing if things are as they appear. Unit after unit losing shooting options. 1 or 2 here and there throughout the army is not very useful or meaningful in the age of supercharged armies.

 

Have these sheets not been reliable in the past? Were there other comparable reboxed datasheets any time recently that had more options for loadout than those listed on their sheet like this?

 

The comparison with the loyalist book may or may not be meaningful, as loyalist bikers could lose options and be limited to box contents if they indeed receive a second codex during this edition. Or they could keep the options.

 

Waiting for this book is increasingly less exciting based on speculation alone.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Khornestar

[TrawlingCleaner]

This could be similar to the Ork Boyz situation where they released the new kit while still selling the old kit. Chaos bikes are supposedly one of the worst selling kits in the Chaos range so I'd imagine they still have quite the backlog.

 

Looking at Chris' leaks:

 

14" bs3 ws3 t5 3w 3a ld9 3+
Replace pistol for chainsword
Up to 2 special weapons
Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
Icon
Champ
Plasma pistol
1 weapon from Melee weapon

 

They never had combi options for anything other than the champion so I'm still relatively confident they'll release

[Sersi]

Well, a lot has been leaked and a lot confirmed by GW on the community site. So, how does everyone feel about the new codex so far?   

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, I certainly feel that the leaks provided by Clockwork Chris have so far all been shown to be correct, so I don't think there is any room for doubt that his source was legitimate and as such the "unproven" rules can more properly be viewed as leaks than rumours - ie, they will be correct unless they changed in or after the final stages of playtesting.

As an Emperor's Children player, I'm not very impressed by the Mark of Slannesh - except in units with icons, I don't think the ability to "fight first" in melee is worth 15 points per unit.  Unless the mark unlocks some other rules I'm not yet aware of (and they would need to be for something approaching the value of endless cacophony in the current codex), I can only see it being of any utility for larger melee units with an icon, and only if the icon itself is cheap.

That said, we are still at a phase where we can only nitpick as we don't have an overall view of the new rules and how they might work together, so any views are likely to be more negative than not until we do have such a larger picture.

One thing I am happy about is that the points update earlier this week has chaos marines at 18 points and noise marines at 21, which is better for chaos marines than I feared, and great for noise marines if they get their mark baked in and don't have to pay the extra 15 points for it - that said, this assessment also depends on their unit special rule being worth a point or 2 per model and/or their noise weapons being appropriately or undercosted.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think it's shaping up to be pretty decent.  Not perfect by any stretch -- the restrictions on Legionary, Chosen, and Terminator warloads in particular rub me the wrong way -- but overall the leaks show that we will have the tools to be a threat.  The general increase in attack volume across the board is I think really going to push us into being an assault-heavy army, and spearhead units like Chosen and Possessed are going to appear a lot especially in the early days as folks try to figure out the best ways to use them.

 

Once we get a hold of the full volume and can review all of the rules, abilities, and stratagems together I'm hoping that even the detractors -- I've been spending a lot of time in Chaos FB groups and Discords during B&C interregnum, and there's a lot of folks down on the codex already from the leaks -- will see that we have tools to be meta-defining even if we're not meta-dominant.

[DO_IT_TO_IT]

So far the only things getting me down are Possessed not getting marks/icons and Terminators not getting icons. I wonder if something changed during playtesting because it's kinda starting to sound like the superdoctrines aren't happening either (or GW decided to keep them quiet so far, maybe). On positives, despite the loadout changes I'm more on board with Terminators than I thought I'd be, but less on board with Chosen. One thing I really like is the price point on Raptors. I could really see myself running a couple 5 man squads with meltaguns.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I'm really curious about the rest of the Legion rules, whether "super doctrines" made it, etc. Hopefully someone is able to share more in the next few hours. If not, It's up to battle reports and other content creators in the morning.

 

[Sersi]

18 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Well, I certainly feel that the leaks provided by Clockwork Chris have so far all been shown to be correct, so I don't think there is any room for doubt that his source was legitimate and as such the "unproven" rules can more properly be viewed as leaks than rumours - ie, they will be correct unless they changed in or after the final stages of playtesting.

As an Emperor's Children player, I'm not very impressed by the Mark of Slannesh - except in units with icons, I don't think the ability to "fight first" in melee is worth 15 points per unit.  Unless the mark unlocks some other rules I'm not yet aware of (and they would need to be for something approaching the value of endless cacophony in the current codex), I can only see it being of any utility for larger melee units with an icon, and only if the icon itself is cheap.

That said, we are still at a phase where we can only nitpick as we don't have an overall view of the new rules and how they might work together, so any views are likely to be more negative than not until we do have such a larger picture.

One thing I am happy about is that the points update earlier this week has chaos marines at 18 points and noise marines at 21, which is better for chaos marines than I feared, and great for noise marines if they get their mark baked in and don't have to pay the extra 15 points for it - that said, this assessment also depends on their unit special rule being worth a point or 2 per model and/or their noise weapons being appropriately or undercosted.

Emperor's Children player as well. I think on the whole EC came out okay.  With the marks we've not seen the God Specifiec stratagems, so perhaps there's something there?  I' am a bit disappointed about Terminators not being able to take icons for 2+ to hit power fists; but we have several ways to get +1 to hit.  I really like the changes to Honor the Prince and the Dark Apostle handing out Advance & Charge now.  I feel like Noise Marines will be powerful with their  sonic weapons changes and being able to advance and shoot without penalty.  Which is going to be real important now that they get +1 damage at half range.   

[Sersi]

38 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I think it's shaping up to be pretty decent.  Not perfect by any stretch -- the restrictions on Legionary, Chosen, and Terminator warloads in particular rub me the wrong way -- but overall the leaks show that we will have the tools to be a threat.  The general increase in attack volume across the board is I think really going to push us into being an assault-heavy army, and spearhead units like Chosen and Possessed are going to appear a lot especially in the early days as folks try to figure out the best ways to use them.

 

Once we get a hold of the full volume and can review all of the rules, abilities, and stratagems together I'm hoping that even the detractors -- I've been spending a lot of time in Chaos FB groups and Discords during B&C interregnum, and there's a lot of folks down on the codex already from the leaks -- will see that we have tools to be meta-defining even if we're not meta-dominant.

I don't think many CSM players are happy about the weapons and wargear restrictions.  But its looks like there's enough variety for lots of different builds to play in the codex.  Assault heavy? Oh yes, indeed. 

[Darnok]

Wouldn't it be a good idea - with all those leaks and the book going up for pre-order tomorrow - to have a new thread?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

2 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Wouldn't it be a good idea - with all those leaks and the book going up for pre-order tomorrow - to have a new thread?

Until people have book-in-hand and all the leaks & conjecture end, we'll keep the discussion contained here.  Once the book drops, this thread will be closed and new threads can be run out for individual points worth discussion.

[Prophet of the Despoiler]

Still waiting to see if there are super doctrines, and if chosen can take these extra traits which I feel is unlikely now. 

[tinpact]

Very much a mixed bag, I think. There are a lot of "wait, what?" kind of decisions for equipment, but the actual rules seem pretty good.

Being so assault focused I'm interested in seeing if the Land Raider buffs are enough to make them usable as a transport, although drop pods and Termites are probably still more cost effective.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

3 minutes ago, tinpact said:

Very much a mixed bag, I think. There are a lot of "wait, what?" kind of decisions for equipment, but the actual rules seem pretty good.

Being so assault focused I'm interested in seeing if the Land Raider buffs are enough to make them usable as a transport, although drop pods and Termites are probably still more cost effective.

I'm sanguine.  The T9 alone is hopefully enough to stifle melta and lances, and moves lascannon hits to a 50/50 chance of wounding.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

40 minutes ago, Prophet of the Despoiler said:

Still waiting to see if there are super doctrines, and if chosen can take these extra traits which I feel is unlikely now. 

Im pretty pessimistic about super doctrines atm.  Enough has leaked out to have gotten a wiff of them yet we have nothing.  

[MDops]

1 hour ago, SanguinaryGuardsman said:

Im pretty pessimistic about super doctrines atm.  Enough has leaked out to have gotten a wiff of them yet we have nothing.  

There is a whole week of build up still to go for GW to confirm them. I suspect once the book goes up for pre-order there will be at least a daily post about something and they might include the supers. That being said, not putting it past GW to give CSM some but not all of the loyalists toys

[Guzzlrr]

That's the one thing I'm still hoping for, super doctrines but some how I think it's unlikely

[SpookyBoy]

Yea I'm doubting we get a super doctrine which honestly is pretty rough for Night Lords since otherwise half of our trait just sucks without it. Also World Eaters didn't have a super doctrine.