What to expect from 9e CSM

[Slave to Darkness]

5 minutes ago, GreaterChickenofTzeentch said:

Ironically, many of those Heresy items that they are apparently dropping 40k items for would be usable on 40k CSM if they weren't removed from the Codex, especially the rumored combi-weapon packs.

Cant fit too many items as they dont have space to stock them, yet they are developing Fantasy as well as AoS, I think they have plenty of space in that case. 

[TheWillTheWay]

I must not doubt, doubt is the hype killer.

Doubt is the little :cuss that brings total disappointment.

I will face the codex. I will permit it to pass over and through me.

And when the release date has gone past I will turn to make a good list.

Where the codex has gone there will be nothing. Only chaos will remain.

 

Mod edit: Please see the forum rules regarding acceptable word usage.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Khornestar

[MegaVolt87]

9 hours ago, DesuVult said:

Saying it is the best release since the traitor supplement would mean it is better than everything after the traitor supplement up until now but not necessarily the traitor supplement.  Being the best release since the traitor supplement more or less means being better than the 8e codex.

My problem and the problem that some other people seem to have is that the book just appears badly designed and written.  There is significant unnecessary complication, terrible internal balance, and wild inconsistency.  This is even apparent in some of the reviews with how seemingly every reviewer is able to get multiple noteworthy things wrong with what can take marks, icons, is core, and what buffs that allows.  You may be inclined to think dark apostles would work well possessed (as some reviewers did), except that as possessed lack core what dark apostles can provided possessed is exceedingly limited.  As other reviewers did you may think what can take a mark could take an icon and vice versa, except terminators cannot take icons despite taking marks and possessed cannot take marks despite taking an icon.  Possessed and other daemonkin cannot take marks but the daemon prince must take a mark.  Possessed can take an icon but it must be unaligned while aligned terminators cannot take icons but chosen can.  The Emperor's Children section sent one particular group through quite the loop on how it affected rules and that makes sense, the EC rules in regards to marking and bonuses from those marks are a mess.  I would be fine with accursed weapons if they were both good and consistent.  Instead several units have a wild array of inconsistent weapons.  A justification for accursed weapons is cutting down the power weapon list but those power weapons still exist and more have been added.  Nothing was trimmed down, no simplicity was added, just some options for some units removed with incredible inconsistency and options changed in some places with equal inconsistency.  Chosen power fists are accursed weapons but terminator power fists are not.  Legionnaire champions don't get accursed weapons and keep power weapons while also adding daemon blades and tainted chainaxe.  Raptor champions can only take a power fist or power sword.  Even what was removed was inconsistent.  The chaos lord model only has a thunder hammer but gets some weapon options while the jump pack was removed.  The exalted champion datasheet has returned with the equipment it was modelled with but the model has been gone longer than some people in this thread have been in the hobby.

 

edit: And after waiting through so much of 8th and 9th the special rule we are granted as a faction is just doctrines.

 

Very on point with the reviewers. Stopped looking at them since even the self proclaimed CSM mains were getting stuff wrong and they had the book in front of them. I also noticed a lot of what you said also. I'll probably do a big write up after I get my copy, CSM has been my main since 3rd ed. 

[BitsHammer]

So I haven't seen anyone talk about the wargear lists, so I dove into the GMG video review because I was still curious to see what options we could work with:

And my best screenshot at max resolution is a mess so let me do my best to translate that to something less pixellated:
Heavy Weapons
Havoc autocannon
Heavy bolter
Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Reaper chaincannon

Melee Weapons
Astartes chainsword
Power axe
Power fist
Power maul
Power sword
Tainted chainaxe (+1 S, AP-1, 2D for 5pts)

Special Weapons
Flamer
Meltagun
Plasma gun

I would have been happy if they at least put an accursed weapon on that melee list for the Chaos Lord to have access to so we can represent random melee wargear choices. Oh well, guess my Chainglaives will be Tainted chainaxes instead.

[BrainFireBob]

Chosen Champion can buy from the Melee Weapons list as  I recall the leaks. That's your huckleberry powerfist for Chosen if accurate

[BitsHammer]

9 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Chosen Champion can buy from the Melee Weapons list as  I recall the leaks. That's your huckleberry powerfist for Chosen if accurate

I went and checked because I hoped you were right, but they don't have access to the melee weapons list.

[BrainFireBob]

3 hours ago, Fulkes said:

I went and checked because I hoped you were right, but they don't have access to the melee weapons list.

Danggit.

What the heck with these Chosen?

I'm glad I did a squad with sheathed Zerker blades, pistols, and blinged bolters, but that's 1 of my 4 Chosen squads. 

It's not a bad unit, but geez

[Maschinenpriester]

Is there any infantry unit besides terminators who is able to take kombi bolters? What should I do with my chosen squad which is kittet out with combi bolters?

Edited June 29, 2022 by Maschinenpriester

[Plague _Lord]

12 hours ago, Prot said:

I don't know if CSM is going to 'rock the meta' but I do know enough cool rules and tweaks exist that it will keep me busy, and content for a while.

Honestly tournaments still aren't back to normal here, and probably won't be for a while. So I try to stay competitive in a larger group of regulars I play. And I think the codex will keep me those games vs the regular nasties: Tau/Custodes/DG (I think theyr'e better now)/Dark Eldar, etc.

What still surprises me is the Chosen. I just can't figure out what they were thinking with that unit, or what it's really supposed to do.

I really wish I hadn't have sold my Black Legion as I fought tooth and nail for years with them to get a win a tournament, and they look so much better now!

I am still deciding between Iron Warriors (which I don't think are as bad as people think) and Red Corsairs.

There are people saying that IW are bad lol? They seem a quite good legion with all the defensive buffs they can stack. I'm actually happy to use my lamd raider and vindicator and get some more consistency out of them. With the warpsmith buff both units can dish out solid damage. 

[Khornestar]

5 hours ago, Maschinenpriester said:

Is there any infantry unit besides terminators who is able to take kombi bolters? What should I do with my chosen squad which is kittet out with combi bolters?

Just count them as regular boltguns, since there isn't a combi-bolter option, there's no room for confusion once the opponent is aware of it.

[BrainFireBob]

Anyone know if the Dark Apostle can take a plasma pistol?

[Surreal Cruelty]

36 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Anyone know if the Dark Apostle can take a plasma pistol?

I don't think so.  Not something any of the official models came with.

[DO_IT_TO_IT]

53 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Anyone know if the Dark Apostle can take a plasma pistol?

It doesn't look like it, from what I can tell. Then again, I don't think he had this option in the 8th edition codex either?

[Toldavf]

From what I know of the characters:

Deamon princes are beat sticks to nobodies surprise, these guys can mix it up with any target and a fully kitted on can happily do serious damage to a knight if not outright kill it.  

Lords aren't lords in terminator armour and so wont see much play. 

Terminator lords are just amazing, my NL one has 10 str 8 attacks with -3 ap and damage 2 and no fnp/wound gates for the enemy. That's not even the sickest combo. 

Warpsmiths and Disco lords are as advertised, both very solid. 

Dank apostles come in a squad of 3 and don't get character protection until the 2 acolytes are dead. Their buffs are good but they can't change equipment and they are really clunky because of the unit size.

MoP's are great you can do some nasty psyker punishing stuff with them, easily killing a mid resilience psyker. Their deamonkin buffs are great. Again no armoury access

Sorc/termy sorc are the same as always.

MoE are fun for their points they can really bring allot of pain, they are however squishy. 

[Lord Abaia]

Does anyone have any insight if it is possible to make the Lord Discordant's mechadendrites and daemonic steed legs into a daemon weapon? Or if it would be worthwhile? If those are a high volume low strength weapon it might be a good candidate for the Nurgle daemon weapon which makes it automatically wound and stops FNP.

[Cheex]

1 hour ago, Toldavf said:

Dank apostles come in a squad of 3 and don't get character protection until the 2 acolytes are dead. Their buffs are good but they can't change equipment and they are really clunky because of the unit size.

Actually, Dark Apostles do still benefit from Look Out Sir even when they have Disciples with them:

Same goes for the Dark Commune unit - a fact that reviewers seem to be forgetting, since everyone keeps mentioning how fragile the unit is.

[BrainFireBob]

7 hours ago, Surreal Cruelty said:

I don't think so.  Not something any of the official models came with.

Yes. Means the Heresy command guy needs a gun swap, same with some of the Chaplains. 

 

Mainly, though, I want to do a lefthand swap with these guys. Make an Exalted Champ. Note: Images from Net, not mine

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by BrainFireBob
Ownership disclaimer

[Slave to Darkness]

On 6/29/2022 at 2:24 AM, Fulkes said:

So I haven't seen anyone talk about the wargear lists, so I dove into the GMG video review because I was still curious to see what options we could work with:

And my best screenshot at max resolution is a mess so let me do my best to translate that to something less pixellated:
Heavy Weapons
Havoc autocannon
Heavy bolter
Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Reaper chaincannon

Melee Weapons
Astartes chainsword
Power axe
Power fist
Power maul
Power sword
Tainted chainaxe (+1 S, AP-1, 2D for 5pts)

Special Weapons
Flamer
Meltagun
Plasma gun

I would have been happy if they at least put an accursed weapon on that melee list for the Chaos Lord to have access to so we can represent random melee wargear choices. Oh well, guess my Chainglaives will be Tainted chainaxes instead.

So no Lightning Claws on Lords then I assume??

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

4 hours ago, BrainFireBob said:

Yes. Means the Heresy command guy needs a gun swap, same with some of the Chaplains. 

 

Mainly, though, I want to do a lefthand swap with these guys. Make an Exalted Champ. Note: Images from Net, not mine

 

The hand swap on the top guy will be super easy if he's metal. That piece was separate and so breaking the glue join should be no problem.

[Agrest_IW]

48 minutes ago, Slave to Darkness said:

So no Lightning Claws on Lords then I assume??

Lighting claws are only on Terminator Lord and noone else

[Slave to Darkness]

1 hour ago, Agrest_IW said:

Lighting claws are only on Terminator Lord and noone else

Ahh well. Don think my regulars will mind me still running it with a Claw, not like I go into GW to play. 

[Bulwyf]

I  hate the NL changes. We went from the leaks to have the +1 advance and charge legion trait gone. The +1 to wound against LD6 units was looking great. Then they changed it to LD5. Now it is worthless. Most armies are high leadership so that rule becomes basically worthless.  Warlord traits and relics are very weak, so weak as to be completely useless.

I did not think I would envy my 8th edition rules for NL after psychic awakening but my army is actually worse with a new book. Did I mention my jump pack lord and dual LC termies are now gone? Fun stuff. Thanks GW!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm not especially thrilled by the Alpha Legion stuff either, but I don't share your ire.  In general for me, it's a question of the relics and WLT being a touch low-powered and the strats being mostly overcosted.  The running consensus on the internet so far tends to put Alphas at the bottom and Night Lords just above them, but frankly I think those "power rankings" are looking at pure lethality rather than considering utility at all.  NLs are capable of getting lethality buffs, but both Legions have some really good objective-play abilities as well that make them less directly "good" but still capable of winning.  We will just have to be underhanded about it, is all.

[DesuVult]

My problem isn't necessarily the power of the rules but how stupid they get.  Units have poor base lethality and survivability but because of the codex design you can do stupid wombo combo moves.  Plague Marines can be buffed to T7 W2 2+/4++ AoC, -2 damage, -1 to wound against S7 and S14+, Cannot be wounded on 3 or less, cannot be hit on 3 or less.  Iron Warriors can also Cloud of Flies and Cannon Fodder to turn off an enemy shooting phase.  Nobody is going to have fun with this.  

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Don't be hyperbolic.  CoF and Cannon Fodder will affect one unit each.  I assume an IW army has more than two units of infantry, so there's plenty of other things for the enemy to shoot at, and unless it's Tau they're going to have a dedicated assault unit that can intervene against something protected from the shooting phase.