What to expect from 9e CSM

[Clockworkchris]

3 power fists in a 5 man squad with 2 power fists in the box. I should not have expected better.

This is my own personal guess, i am awaiting confirmation on this.

[WrathOfTheLion]

If the power maul becomes an accursed weapon, that would certainly make parts of that kit more useful.

 

I'm interested to see what happens when the Chaos Daemons codex comes out. The allied detachment mechanic of the Harlequins with both Craftworlds and Drukhari makes me think we may see something similar in other books. In that way, they could host that mechanic in the Daemon codex vs in each other disparate Chaos codex.

 

Doesn't mean it will happen, but it's cool to see that it could be on the table.

Edited February 1, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Clockworkchris]

I got some confirmations

 

No strat for accursed weapons

 

The terminator info below has been corrected following confirmation

 

terminator loadouts:

Base loadout, combibolters + accursed weapons

 

For every 5

1 can replace combibolter with autocanon or heavy flamer

 

1 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon

 

3 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist

 

1 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist

 

2 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers

 

2 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi flamers

 

1 can replace combibolters with combi plasma

[Khornestar]

Eh, gotta say terminators are not looking particularly impressive. Kinda cutting back both our shooting and melee options unit by unit, while other armies continue to have the ability to spam all sorts of stuff. Totally willing to see context, and the big picture, but if this stuff is true I dunno how one would argue against that. Though, accursed weapons are still decent looking all 'rounder weapons.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Khornestar

[She Who Thirsts]

With all this news, I'm expecting Chaos Champions will have accursed weapons instead of Power Swords/Axes/Mauls too.

 

If everything posted here is accurate of course.

Edited February 1, 2022 by She Who Thirsts

[DesuVult]

Eh, gotta say terminators are not looking particularly impressive. Kinda cutting back both our shooting and melee options unit by unit, while other armies continue to have the ability to spam all sorts of stuff. Totally willing to see context, and the big picture, but if this stuff is true I dunno how one would argue against that. Though, accursed weapons are still decent looking all 'rounder weapons.

In a world of vanguard veterans and bladeguard veterans I feel S5 AP -3 D1 doesn't stack up quite so well as an all arounder choice anymore without some serious other buffs to back it up.

[Irate Khornate]

As odd as this sounds, it's a good meet in the middle situation. I would have preferred damage two on the weapons but beggars can't be choosers.

[Clockworkchris]

Tonight i will math out the accursed weapons vs the other weapons (including relic blades). Ill post the results.

[Prot]

I got some confirmations

 

No strat for accursed weapons

 

The terminator info below has been corrected following confirmation

 

terminator loadouts:

Base loadout, combibolters + accursed weapons

 

For every 5

1 can replace combibolter with autocanon or heavy flamer

 

1 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon

 

3 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist

 

1 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist

 

2 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers

 

2 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi flamers

 

1 can replace combibolters with combi plasma

 

Why on earth are they removing the fun, and strategic element of these squads? Terminators (and chosen) used to be the squads that harkened back to the pre-heresy with cool, unique weapon loadouts. And is this an error, but I don't see Combi Melta, which is quite huge to me. (I mean they are in the boxset!)

 

So if it's not a fist/chainfist, it's an Accursed Weapon. Claws are gone. This is not only disappointing, but I better see Vanguard vets lose them too.

[MadEdric]

No combi-meltas for Terminators?

[TheGodOfHammers]

No combi-meltas for Terminators?

I'm pretty sure he just put flamers twice by accident, as there are meltas in the box

[Clockworkchris]

No combi-meltas for Terminators?

Sorry thats my mistake. 2 per 5 can have combi meltas

[Iron Inspirit]

Im concerned at the removal of anti-tank in a meta where we need to be fighting 1+ save units in cover with -1 damage and an invul save. 
 

Edit: Currently, we can field 10 terminators with combimelta and shoot twice, getting 20 melta shots out of deepstrike. This is now 4 melta's out of deepstrike, as Endless Cacophony is 99.9% gone from the codex. Im not even going to get started on the :cussing Chainfists which can only have TWO now per ten???

Now Obliterators can, if you roll well, put out 18 shots of 9S, -3ap, 3damage, shooting twice for 36 shots. Now reduced to firing once for 3d3 shots of 9S, -3 ap, 4damage. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Iron Inspirit

[Sersi]

Im concerned at the removal of anti-tank in a meta where we need to be fighting 1+ save units in cover with -1 damage and an invul save. 

 

Edit: Currently, we can field 10 terminators with combimelta and shoot twice, getting 20 melta shots out of deepstrike. This is now 4 melta's out of deepstrike, as Endless Cacophony is 99.9% gone from the codex. Im not even going to get started on the :cussing Chainfists which can only have TWO now per ten???

 

Now Obliterators can, if you roll well, put out 18 shots of 9S, -3ap, 3damage, shooting twice for 36 shots. Now reduced to firing once for 3d3 shots of 9S, -3 ap, 4damage. 

 

Its a pretty safe bet that Veterans of the Long and Endless Cacophony are either gone , substantially nerfed, or restricted.  I'm sure they'll be some strong stratagems available to us but nothing as globally useful as those.

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

Im concerned at the removal of anti-tank in a meta where we need to be fighting 1+ save units in cover with -1 damage and an invul save.

 

Edit: Currently, we can field 10 terminators with combimelta and shoot twice, getting 20 melta shots out of deepstrike. This is now 4 melta's out of deepstrike, as Endless Cacophony is 99.9% gone from the codex. Im not even going to get started on the :cussing Chainfists which can only have TWO now per ten???

 

Now Obliterators can, if you roll well, put out 18 shots of 9S, -3ap, 3damage, shooting twice for 36 shots. Now reduced to firing once for 3d3 shots of 9S, -3 ap, 4damage.

Its a pretty safe bet that Veterans of the Long and Endless Cacophony are either gone , substantially nerfed, or restricted. I'm sure they'll be some strong stratagems available to us but nothing as globally useful as those.

Pretty sure vets is not gone seeing as both DG and TS have it.

[Warsmith sargos]

I really want +1 to hit for terminators like death guard and marines get for 1 cp.

I like the acursed weapons idea if we keep the chainfists and powerfists.

Im really want to know about the IW warlord trait for the +1 damage,and clockworkchris, any chance you ask about daemon engines getting legion traits?

[Iron Inspirit]

 

 

Im concerned at the removal of anti-tank in a meta where we need to be fighting 1+ save units in cover with -1 damage and an invul save.

 

Edit: Currently, we can field 10 terminators with combimelta and shoot twice, getting 20 melta shots out of deepstrike. This is now 4 melta's out of deepstrike, as Endless Cacophony is 99.9% gone from the codex. Im not even going to get started on the :cussing Chainfists which can only have TWO now per ten???

 

Now Obliterators can, if you roll well, put out 18 shots of 9S, -3ap, 3damage, shooting twice for 36 shots. Now reduced to firing once for 3d3 shots of 9S, -3 ap, 4damage.

Its a pretty safe bet that Veterans of the Long and Endless Cacophony are either gone , substantially nerfed, or restricted. I'm sure they'll be some strong stratagems available to us but nothing as globally useful as those.

Pretty sure vets is not gone seeing as both DG and TS have it.

 

Vets won't help a bit when you roll 3d3 and get 3 shots on oblits. The Oblits you paid 300 points for. 

[Lexington]

I’m maybe weirdly okay with the Accursed Weapons thing, for the most part - tho I wish they’d left Lightning Claws as they were - as it harkens back to what I still think of as a better era of design, where a Power Weapon was a Power Weapon, and left us alone to model these things as we saw fit.

 

The thing about Combis is ridiculous, tho. I imagine the fuller loadout will end up as a Legends option, so that’s okay enough, but would it really be so hard to just include it in the regular entries?

[AxeC]

 

 

 

Im concerned at the removal of anti-tank in a meta where we need to be fighting 1+ save units in cover with -1 damage and an invul save.

 

Edit: Currently, we can field 10 terminators with combimelta and shoot twice, getting 20 melta shots out of deepstrike. This is now 4 melta's out of deepstrike, as Endless Cacophony is 99.9% gone from the codex. Im not even going to get started on the :cussing Chainfists which can only have TWO now per ten???

 

Now Obliterators can, if you roll well, put out 18 shots of 9S, -3ap, 3damage, shooting twice for 36 shots. Now reduced to firing once for 3d3 shots of 9S, -3 ap, 4damage.

Its a pretty safe bet that Veterans of the Long and Endless Cacophony are either gone , substantially nerfed, or restricted. I'm sure they'll be some strong stratagems available to us but nothing as globally useful as those.

Pretty sure vets is not gone seeing as both DG and TS have it.

Vets won't help a bit when you roll 3d3 and get 3 shots on oblits. The Oblits you paid 300 points for.  

 

Why on earth would you assume oblits are staying the same points?

 

Honestly, this thread is getting kind of ridiculous. Everyone is just making wild assumptions about how good/bad things are with like 1/10th of the picture. Obviously a lot of fun is in speculating, but take a breath people jeez.

 

Sure chosen/terminators could be rubbish. They could be amazing. We have literally no basis to judge it on other than a profile.

 

Personally I have my money on chosen having infiltration as a skill to take, as it plugs a huge hole in the current roster. If you take that as an example it changes everything, because that matters far more than their ability to kill things.

 

As an Iron Warriors player, I'm seeing a lot of possible value in the terminators. Get them in midboard in cover. You'd need AP-3 just to get them past a 2+ save. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by AxeC

[Are Verlo]

If there is a strat to make accursed weapons ignore invuln…. Then we might be getting there.

 

That will make termies dangerous to all kinds of infantry and characters, while still not being the best anti- tank.

[Clockworkchris]

I said it before butt ill say it again, please follow my update posts that include all updated info.

 

That said, everything in the codex has access to legion traits apart from cult units and cultists. That means vehicules and daemon engines benefit.

 

I also mathed the accursed weapons and they are good, they come in second to LC in all scenarios essentially, but when performing the average and looking at standard deviations for all power weapons. Accursed are above average in all scenarios except t6 where power mauls edge them out but even then they are still within 1 standard deviation of the average.

 

For those who are going to say that LC are better, my answer to you is obviously abd that was the problem. These accursed weapons are clearly in a good spot and react well to our rules.

 

The +1a works wonderfully with our exploding 6s doctrine, as well as things such as the WB MWs or EC tesla 6s.

 

The +1s makes any source of +1 to wound even better than base s4.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm oddly okay with the Accursed Weapons for both Chosen and Termies. I'm very disappointed in the combiweapon change for Termies though. Kinda hurts my soul a bit, really, but kn the Chosen front I never really considered them a pure shooting unit. With the extra attack they had, they always seemed to me to be worth more as a hybrid -- yeah shoot a bit, but never be afraid to charge in and go chopping. Now they're getting power chainswords for even *more* attacks.

 

I'm not mad about that, not one bit. Leave the gunnery to Havocs and CSMs.

[Dhar'Neth]

Let’s assume that the whole accursed weapons thing comes true. Why does the kit comes with 5 chainswords? Are the accused weapons a paid upgrade? If so, does the combi-gunner gets a chainsword, accursed weapon or none of the above? Why the kit contains more accursed weapons than necessary? Was the kit made with new rules in mind? Or is it a hang over from past. If so, why didn’t release it earlier? So many questions…

[DesuVult]

If the accursed weapon rumor is true I expect the chosen sprues were designed at the same time as other new models and this is a rules band aid in response to the reaction to the terminator kit.

[MadEdric]

 

No combi-meltas for Terminators?

Sorry thats my mistake. 2 per 5 can have combi meltas

Whooo was hoping that was the case. My Red Butchers have more than that, but that’s fine. My Chosen squad I just built and painted is a wash though. It sported 5 combi plasma and a plasma, all with Chainswords. Easy enough to have them in other squads though.

Thanks so much for taking the time to convey the info. It is really appreciated.