What to expect from 9e CSM

[Banks]

 

 

Can someone with leaks or access to those with leaks tell us what the NL legion trait will be? I can only pray it is not about leadership or morale phase. It is such a useless trait and it never works. Praying we get something that actually is useful in games.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/?p=5790824 

 

 

thanks. So looking at this:

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

 

I'm guessing -1CA at 9 inches is -1 to combat attrition. 

 

Once again NL are stuck with a mechanic that simply does not work. Morale checks are either too broken to make the game not fun for the other player or the opposing player simply ignores it which means your special unique gimmick is worthless. Is the -2LD stackable like it currently is? Even then, you have to risk getting your units close enough to trigger it and for 2 CP  you just auto pass morale anyways. 

 

I like the +1 to advance and charge, very fitting with the legion. The +1 to wound is also nice. 

 

 

You are looking its usage all wrong. It no longer about forcing the enemy to fail a moral test and cause fleeing, but its about lowering leadership to gain consistent buffs. Getting most armies down to 6ld will be easy with -2 LD,which is NOT going to be stackable. But what that means that you can spread this debuff out a bit better,especially with Raptors who will be a -3LD on their own, so almost always getting that +1 to wound, except vs Custodes and Necrons.

 

The -1 CA(Combat Attrition) is just kind of a cherry on top.

 

Going back to the -2 LD and the +1 Wound, means things like Bale Flamers will be auto-hitting and wounding on 2+s for a lot of units, which seems quite attractive to me. This is a big buff to our legion trait in my opinion

 

I'd also like to add, that forcing someone to spend 2 CP just to ignore a single morale test, that to me seems pretty worth it as well. Thats CP that could have been 2 failed re-rolls, or important buffs later on.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Banks

[Bulwyf]

When everything else about their traits encourages charging, having an element that only works when you're close to the enemy isn't a bug, it's a feature.

 

As for the "you can just auto-pass" argument, I have two countervailing considerations. First, make them spend those CPs -- it's less they can use on something else. Second, that strat can be used on one unit once per phase, whereas your trait will affect every enemy unit in range in every morale phase. Spread the love enough to trigger multiple checks and force your opponent to make tough decisions on which unit to spend those CPs on.

 

I can't spend CP to turn off BT 5++ army rules. I can't spend CP to turn off other armies army special rules. But for two CP I can turn off NL's special rules. And let's be honest, it is highly unlikely you will be needing that on more than one unit per phase. No one cares if a squad of Intercessors runs but I will absolutely use it on BGV to keep them there. Same thing for other armies. 

 

I'll quote this:

 

It disproportionally affects larger units (thus promoting MSU) by making them not only more likely to take higher losses, but more likely to take losses at all. Many units can simply skip the entire phase by being small, 3 man units with LD 8 effectively ignore morale, while 5 man units with good LD are almost never affected. It’s been poorly implemented in books, with very few things playing into the rules and many armies having next to no bonus, positive or negative. Whole armies are effectively immune. Even when it has an effect, it tends to be a very minor one with a handful of models at best being lost. It’s next to impossible to destroy a unit with morale. Due to its often minor effects, it’s better to just wipe units out with overwhelming firepower, which in turn leads to fewer morale checks and it having less effect.

 

Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/09/warhammer-40k-how-to-fix-9th-editions-worst-part-morale.html

 

This sums up much of my problems with morale phase/leadership shenanigans. It doesn't work. Some armies are effectively immune to it. Someone said the -2 LD debuff no longer will stack. Great. So unless I am playing Orks (which I just did this weekend against a friend and actually won with my NL because he had units wrecked by LD debuffs) I'm really having a hard go at it. 

 

As I said, I like the +1 to advance and charge. At least my trait will give me something as NL besides an effectively useless morale gimmick. +1 to wound for LD 6 or lower for melee? That's cool. Even with most SM armies I can get to that and get +1 to wound plus using LC which is fluffy for NL I can also reroll the wound rolls. 

 

So it definitely is a better legion trait than what we have in our dinosaur 8th edition codex. But the problems with morale phase/armies being effectively immune to morale checks still remain.

[techsoldaten]

 

 

thanks. So looking at this:

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

 

I'm guessing -1CA at 9 inches is -1 to combat attrition. 

 

Once again NL are stuck with a mechanic that simply does not work. Morale checks are either too broken to make the game not fun for the other player or the opposing player simply ignores it which means your special unique gimmick is worthless. Is the -2LD stackable like it currently is? Even then, you have to risk getting your units close enough to trigger it and for 2 CP  you just auto pass morale anyways. 

 

I like the +1 to advance and charge, very fitting with the legion. The +1 to wound is also nice. 

 

 

You are looking its usage all wrong. It no longer about forcing the enemy to fail a moral test and cause fleeing, but its about lowering leadership to gain consistent buffs. Getting most armies down to 6ld will be easy with -2 LD,which is NOT going to be stackable. But what that means that you can spread this debuff out a bit better,especially with Raptors who will be a -3LD on their own, so almost always getting that +1 to wound, except vs Custodes and Necrons.

 

The -1 CA(Combat Attrition) is just kind of a cherry on top.

 

Going back to the -2 LD and the +1 Wound, means things like Bale Flamers will be auto-hitting and wounding on 2+s for a lot of units, which seems quite attractive to me. This is a big buff to our legion trait in my opinion

 

I'd also like to add, that forcing someone to spend 2 CP just to ignore a single morale test, that to me seems pretty worth it as well. Thats CP that could have been 2 failed re-rolls, or important buffs later on.

 

 

Night Lords are not my army, but there's a lot to like about this Legion Trait.

 

9" auras cover a large part of the board. Deep striking melee units with +1 to charge / wound could deny objectives better than most other units in the game. Ranged shooting on demoralized units could stop opponents from achieving primaries.

 

I don't think you try to table anyone with Night Lords, instead you make it impossible for them to win. And not many people prepare for that style of play.

[Toldavf]

In regards to the NL trait, it is defiantly stronger vs some armies than against others I might even go as far to say that the variance ranges from doing nothing all the way to being absolutely crippling. The +1 to wound is tasty and easy enough to get vs a number of armies. 

Really though what will define it's strength is the other synergies that are available, I'm thinking warlord traits, relics, strats and paid for upgrades if there is even a little synergy it will become much stronger. 

 

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Can someone with leaks or access to those with leaks tell us what the NL legion trait will be? I can only pray it is not about leadership or morale phase. It is such a useless trait and it never works. Praying we get something that actually is useful in games.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/?p=5790824 

 

 

thanks. So looking at this:

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

 

I'm guessing -1CA at 9 inches is -1 to combat attrition. 

 

Once again NL are stuck with a mechanic that simply does not work. Morale checks are either too broken to make the game not fun for the other player or the opposing player simply ignores it which means your special unique gimmick is worthless. Is the -2LD stackable like it currently is? Even then, you have to risk getting your units close enough to trigger it and for 2 CP  you just auto pass morale anyways. 

 

I like the +1 to advance and charge, very fitting with the legion. The +1 to wound is also nice. 

 

 

Erm... Many SM units top out at 8 Ld, so they will be 6 Ld in melee so you will be using the super doctrine quite a bit. Ditto against many other things. You don't need a Ld check to proc the super doctrine, just the Ld at 6 to proc. 

 

EDIT- also good, burning CP on that ignore LD is good less points to use on better strats like transhuman, honour the chapter etc. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by MegaVolt87

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

 

 

Can someone with leaks or access to those with leaks tell us what the NL legion trait will be? I can only pray it is not about leadership or morale phase. It is such a useless trait and it never works. Praying we get something that actually is useful in games.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/?p=5790824 

 

 

thanks. So looking at this:

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

 

I'm guessing -1CA at 9 inches is -1 to combat attrition. 

 

Once again NL are stuck with a mechanic that simply does not work. Morale checks are either too broken to make the game not fun for the other player or the opposing player simply ignores it which means your special unique gimmick is worthless. Is the -2LD stackable like it currently is? Even then, you have to risk getting your units close enough to trigger it and for 2 CP  you just auto pass morale anyways. 

 

I like the +1 to advance and charge, very fitting with the legion. The +1 to wound is also nice. 

 

"I like the +1 to advance and charge, very fitting with the legion. The +1 to wound is also nice. " 

Dude, this is totally the bit you should be focusing on, +1 to wound on most marines (and by proxy this is pretty much everything in the game) in pretty much any situation is awesome! Afterall, you don't need to worry about attrition, if they're all dead.

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

An extra +1 to wound will work on almost all SM with a little diminishing returns. Deathwing with their permanent transhuman and auto pass morale tests will basically hard counter that part of the Night Lords shenanigans (very fitting in the historical conflict with each other), but everything else is open season.

 

SM taking the minor transhuman (1-2 always fail to wound) will keep anything S5 and up from becoming a 2+ to wound, but also if the SM players doing successor tactics choose that, they didn't choose something else.

 

Oh man, if I wasn't priming these dudes I'm working on as Red Corsairs, they would be Night Lords. Will have to wait until next time.

Edited February 9, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Marshal Loss]

Worth noting that "Insane Bravery" is a once per battle not a once per phase stratagem, and forcing your opponent to blow it early can have massive ramifications later on in the game.

[Toldavf]

A question to those who are interested. We are starting to see some rules that ignore fnp and wound gating, when will we see something that ignores transhuman like effects? 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Toldavf

[Clockworkchris]

I play night lords competively,  and as others have said you do not aim to table with them. Their whole kit is aimed at disruption tactics. which is very lore friendly, being the guys that use dirty tricks. The way to win in 8th edition is knowing the ennemies gameplan, surgically removing key units and using stratagems  to disrupt the ennemies phases. Everything down to my list is a trick, you can look at my typical competitive list and not know what the frack my list is suppose to do. Also every unit in my list follows the Xanatos principle, so even when i fail, I suceed. 

[Clockworkchris]

Update post

 

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
• Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
• Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

''Daemonic Gifts'': (purchaseable upgrade)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
• Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

• Jump pack: moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

 

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game

WE

• Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Disco lord

• not much change

Sorcerer in terminator armor

• can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

• buff cultist moral

Cypher

• In the codex

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Mutant cultists

• a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
• big mutant at S5 t4 & ap2 in melee
• small mutant are S4 t4 & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

• No in the codex

Chosen

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
•  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
• Loadout:
• everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
• 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators

• Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
• 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
• 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
• 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

• Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed

• S5 T5 3W 5A
• unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
• now gives +1 to psychic tests
• claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
• ws3 bs3

Obliterators

• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

Other:

• Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)
• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle

[WrathOfTheLion]

For Fallen, do you think they're folded into an existing datasheet with some faction rules in the Codex, or that we'll see a Fallen Supplement for Codex: Chaos Space Marines later?

[Lagrath]

If marks can't go on vehicles does that mean the daemonic upgrades like -1 to wound can't go on vehicles?

[BadgersinHills]

I thought the contents of the Combat Patrol would be the Shadowspear Chaos plus something else, so the news of the contents are interesting. Hope this leads to a separate Shadowspear Chaos release.

[Cheex]

 

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

 

 

I don't see GW releasing an upgrade sprue for a box that's only a couple of years old (what are we, Space Marines?), and I don't buy them having rules for models that don't exist while in the same codex removing rules for models that don't exist.

 

Either GW's being even more internally inconsistent than usual, or someone is having a laugh.

 

(Or, third option: this is a playtest version so GW is just trying out a bunch of ideas at once.)

[Excessus]

It sucks that Legionnaires/Termies lose options they've had since 2nd ed...

[Maschinenpriester]

I thought the contents of the Combat Patrol would be the Shadowspear Chaos plus something else, so the news of the contents are interesting. Hope this leads to a separate Shadowspear Chaos release.

That would be indeed quite interesting news. I wonder what would happen tonoblits in that case? New kit?

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

 

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

 

 

I don't see GW releasing an upgrade sprue for a box that's only a couple of years old (what are we, Space Marines?), and I don't buy them having rules for models that don't exist while in the same codex removing rules for models that don't exist.

 

Either GW's being even more internally inconsistent than usual, or someone is having a laugh.

 

(Or, third option: this is a playtest version so GW is just trying out a bunch of ideas at once.)

 

Shadowspear came out in March 2019 as did the multi-part kit which makes the kits nearly 3 years old. At this point I wouldn't be surprised at all at an upgrade sprue as the base kit is fantastic. As you say, we're not Loyalists but we're likely one of the largest player counts outside of the various shades of Marines.

 

If the restrictions of CSM/Legionnaries comes to pass, it will be unfortunate for sure and I'll lament the loss of Combiweapons on Aspiring Champions but demon weapons on ACs sounds pretty hilarious as does a 2 handed Chain-axe

We'll see what comes to pass when we get the book, some stuff is likely to change between playtests as we've seen with the Eldar Leaks

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

 

 

I don't see GW releasing an upgrade sprue for a box that's only a couple of years old (what are we, Space Marines?), and I don't buy them having rules for models that don't exist while in the same codex removing rules for models that don't exist.

 

Either GW's being even more internally inconsistent than usual, or someone is having a laugh.

 

(Or, third option: this is a playtest version so GW is just trying out a bunch of ideas at once.)

 

The prevailing rumours indicate that the Kill Team Nachmund boxset is those corsairs versus Chaos Space Marines with an extra sprue (similar to the Tau pathfinders in Kill Team Chalnath) - still, better to remain skeptical/cautious, because that Legionaries unit sounds too good to be true imo.

[Maschinenpriester]

<p>

 

 

 

 

 

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

 

I don't see GW releasing an upgrade sprue for a box that's only a couple of years old (what are we, Space Marines?), and I don't buy them having rules for models that don't exist while in the same codex removing rules for models that don't exist.

 

Either GW's being even more internally inconsistent than usual, or someone is having a laugh.

 

(Or, third option: this is a playtest version so GW is just trying out a bunch of ideas at once.)

The prevailing rumours indicate that the Kill Team Nachmund boxset is those corsairs versus Chaos Space Marines with an extra sprue (similar to the Tau pathfinders in Kill Team Chalnath) - still, better to remain skeptical/cautious, because that Legionaries unit sounds too good to be true imo.

I am also sceptical because if they would use the "old" csm sprue that would mean 10 models? Might be a little too many marines for kill team maybe.

[Plague _Lord]

They can just do a mixed sprue of marines and cultists with the marines having an upgrade sprue with whatever gadgets and upgrades they are planning for the new dex so something like this:

 

7 cultists/renegade guardsmen with gizmos

1 CSM with double handed chainaxe

1 CSM with Icon

1 CSM with Balefire tome

 

that would seem like something possible at least.

 

What bugs me though is that GW sees CSM as barbarians and none of their upgrades are every tech related, just sorcery or BIG CHAINAXE GOES WRRR. I mean come on the dark mech actually innovates so marines should have a lot of weird tech that could be infused with the demonic, but wouldnt have to. Give my marines some cool tech :cuss!

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Other:

• Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)
• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle

I can hardly wait for the new Dank Apostle.  He is gonna be spitting out 10,000 year old memes straight from the Eye of Terror.  

[Maschinenpriester]

They can just do a mixed sprue of marines and cultists with the marines having an upgrade sprue with whatever gadgets and upgrades they are planning for the new dex so something like this:

 

7 cultists/renegade guardsmen with gizmos

1 CSM with double handed chainaxe

1 CSM with Icon

1 CSM with Balefire tome

 

that would seem like something possible at least.

 

What bugs me though is that GW sees CSM as barbarians and none of their upgrades are every tech related, just sorcery or BIG CHAINAXE GOES WRRR. I mean come on the dark mech actually innovates so marines should have a lot of weird tech that could be infused with the demonic, but wouldnt have to. Give my marines some cool tech :cuss!

That would be quite fun if they would do that. Would not even be that much of an outloer considering the ork commandos have a mixed unit composituon as well.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They might still sell the sprues for some of the shadowspear stuff, like they do for part of Indomitus and for part of Dark Imperium. Those have usually been kind of expensive, so might be worth grabbing one of the Start Collecting boxes over the next few months if there's stuff in there you want.

[Sandviper]

Has there been any leaks or speculation on the bikes? What about princes? They need a ton of help.