What to expect from 9e CSM

[Marshal Loss]

Late adopters to the new CSM seem to be the target IMO.

 

Well, yes & no. This clearly isn't squarely targeted at late adopters though obviously it may push some people like yourself over the edge. By putting a new sprue which features wargear & options that existing players don't have on their existing squads, they're providing a massive incentive for people that already own numerous CSM squads to buy in while simultaneously making the box a little more appealing for the broader audience (as let's face it, a normal CSM squad isn't exactly the most high-octane Kill Team they could have come up with) that wouldn't be there otherwise.

 

It goes both ways. Ultimately though GW are just as interested in getting existing players to buy back in where they can as they are about introducing new players to an existing faction. Late adopters being the primary target doesn't make a lot of business sense.

 

I don't begrudge folks their excitement; the bits and bobs look great. But, as IK says:

 

I'm a bit in the boat of I don't want to know how much this is going to raise the price of an already 60$ kit (if it's not sold separately) on top of already promised price raising. Don't get me wrong I think the upgrades are amazing (except some of the bare heads) but not looking forward to that new price.

 

Anyway - with all these new options, very curious what the "ideal" Chaos Space Marine squad is going to look like in the 9th ed book after the dust settles. I'm all for things being shaken up if it makes actual CSM a unit worth taking. The 20 man blob is likely dead but we'll have a lot more options and rules layered on top to make up for it.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Going on what info we have Im leaning towards min troops tax squads as the primary option.  However, im open to the idea of assault oriented 10 man units with icon of wrath+MoK.  That unit is going to have 40 attacks at str5 ap -2 and hit on 2s with black legion.  If the daemon blade/chainaxe are good then it might be a really hard hitting unit.  

[MegaVolt87]

 

Late adopters to the new CSM seem to be the target IMO.

 

Well, yes & no. This clearly isn't squarely targeted at late adopters though obviously it may push some people like yourself over the edge. By putting a new sprue which features wargear & options that existing players don't have on their existing squads, they're providing a massive incentive for people that already own numerous CSM squads to buy in while simultaneously making the box a little more appealing for the broader audience (as let's face it, a normal CSM squad isn't exactly the most high-octane Kill Team they could have come up with) that wouldn't be there otherwise.

 

It goes both ways. Ultimately though GW are just as interested in getting existing players to buy back in where they can as they are about introducing new players to an existing faction. Late adopters being the primary target doesn't make a lot of business sense.

 

I consider myself an existing player who is a late adopter in that case. To me, this KT box is superior to eldrich omens. The corsairs are cooler eldar and I am not saddled with an old demon engine or a lazy primaris tech marine re-skin. I think its actually very smart of GW to release the eldrich omens box and KT one before the CSM codex. I probably wouldn't buy the KT box out of protest if the new CSM dex turns out to be a disaster. They wouldn't be able to upsell a lot of people otherwise. The limited launch box for CSM would be interesting to see. 

[helterskelter]

Been playing chaos since 3rd and I find myself 100% here for eldritch omens and the new kill team. Can't say I've ever enjoyed modelling marines as much as I do now/will be doing. Some really good bits across the 3 compatible boxes, and heck could probably splice in with the monopose unit too

[Sarges]

While I like the upgrade pack for its modelling possibilities, what I really don't like is how (if nothing will change from the rumors) there are these highly customizable flavorful dudes that can have a sorcerer in the squad and new wargear and there are chosen that can't have any of that.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

Not thrilled by the existence of an upgrade sprue for a troops choice that is less than 3 years old. But the actual parts look good and obviously this is a huge tick in the rumour column. Exciting times - hopefully we get to see some CSM at Adepticon and the actual codex isn't too far away.

 

For someone like me who hasn't bought into the new CSM range yet, this upgrade sprue has caught my interest. Late adopters to the new CSM seem to be the target IMO. 

 

 

I think any adopters are what they are looking for. Chaos is a faction which is in severe problems at the moment. Death Guard are doing okay, sales wise and community wise, but Chaos outside of that has a lot of issues at the moment. It went from being the 2nd strongest selling army from 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th edition, basically to something that barely gets touched outside of really significant enthusiasts. 

 

I don't even wholly blame the rules tbh, the rules just make it all the more brutal of a decline. I personally think the Primaris killed the range. They REALLY want people to get back into this faction because it was a big range refresh, and so far it's not seen a huge amount of activity. I think if they'd wanted that, they should have given Chaos a scale refresh closer to the Marines. (IE, what they gave the Havocs, who are literally Primaris Marines in terms of scale, and even their armour)

 

I've been on the sidelines with Chaos for years, I bought back in when they were relaunched, it's the only Warhammer-based-buy-in I've ever regretted. I don't even play the game at the moment and I still regret it, I mostly just paint and build minis right now, which is a huge enjoyment for me. I compare my Primaris units to my CSM units, and I just roll my eyes at my company of Chaos Marines, it's extremely demotivating when I see how much bigger, better, and easier to paint the Primaris are compared to the deathwatch-scaled Chaos Marines.

 

Primaris launched with trash rules too, and it was still the best selling range in like, recorded GW history. It's not just a rules issue, you compare them and one side just looks better. Enormous mistake not giving them something like that. I know I'd be painting a lot more Chaos Marines, rather than Daemons, if that was the case. I actually expect a LOT more people would have not skipped the 2017 Chaos range refresh if they gave them something rather than mostly just a relaunch of old tired, weaker-than-the-Imperials visually and rules wise units. :\

Edited February 23, 2022 by Lanparth

[Kaiju Soze]

I definitely miss the days when half the point of Chosen was to go "here's your Chaos Lord's quirky miniboss team. Go nuts, it all has rules".

[Marshal Loss]

It went from being the 2nd strongest selling army from 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th/7th edition, basically to something that barely gets touched outside of really significant enthusiasts.

Where exactly is this idea that CSM don't sell well coming from? What's the evidence? CSM look and feel enormously popular to me, both all over the internet and in real life - I find it hard to imagine that the 2019 refresh was anything other than a success. I don't dispute that CSM are an issue-plagued faction but likening us to an army that "barely gets touched outside of really significant enthusiasts" feels more than a little hyperbolic. In the tournament scene, sure, but elsewhere? I think not.

[Petitioner's City]

While I like the upgrade pack for its modelling possibilities, what I really don't like is how (if nothing will change from the rumors) there are these highly customizable flavorful dudes that can have a sorcerer in the squad and new wargear and there are chosen that can't have any of that.

I also struggle to see what makes the chosen as miniatures distinct from the legionnaires - I feel it's an arbitrary difference, and the models don't support that distinction between less and more elite/less and more corrupt marines.

 

Instead, it just feels like the options for one unit should be available for the other, and vice versa - but then chosen then have better stats (and accursed weapons) on top of the base options for legionnaires, and the ability to take more of those elite options... Which is of course an older model of game design

Edited February 23, 2022 by Petitioner's City

[Iron Father Ferrum]

@Lanparth the new Chaos range was rescaled wonderfully across the range, though. They're a hair shorter than Primaris, sure, but they're much larger than their previous incarnation.

[Lord_Starscream]

@Lanparth the new Chaos range was rescaled wonderfully across the range, though. They're a hair shorter than Primaris, sure, but they're much larger than their previous incarnation.

 

I bought a company of them. Genuinely dissatisfied with them. It's also not a 'hair', they are much shorter when you take both sculpts standing straight, as well as their proportions on their legs are torsos are still very much out of place. The Marines are filled in, and are thicker, and are much taller. Even phobos marines dwarf their chaos counterparts.

 

Also, to add, GW doesn't release sales figures, as they'd potentially add scrutiny from their investors when they make botches, but a semi-reliable way to track if people are collecting armies is to look at how much social media activity there is around them. Chaos in general has a smaller footprint than some Xenos armies now.

 

And in person, I've not met a Chaos Space Marine player even a casual setting that I can remember in the last 2 years. Plenty of everything else. I've seen some Deathguard around. That's not just in one spot, I travel around, they're functionally extinct in the broad region I live in.

[ApulianAbaddon]

I was thinking that Legionaires (our basic marines) could potentially become one of the most versatile unit in the game.

The addition of a Psyker could be useful for certain kind of missions (even with its own drawbacks) while the unit seems overall quite choppy or shooty.

 

What do you think will be the role of Chosens? Will they find they own place or just be Legionaires+1? (I know it's too soon just have some conversation while we wait for the codex)

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

@Lanparth the new Chaos range was rescaled wonderfully across the range, though. They're a hair shorter than Primaris, sure, but they're much larger than their previous incarnation.

I bought a company of them. Genuinely dissatisfied with them. It's also not a 'hair', they are much shorter when you take both sculpts standing straight, as well as their proportions on their legs are torsos are still very much out of place. The Marines are filled in, and are thicker, and are much taller. Even phobos marines dwarf their chaos counterparts.

 

Also, to add, GW doesn't release sales figures, as they'd potentially add scrutiny from their investors when they make botches, but a semi-reliable way to track if people are collecting armies is to look at how much social media activity there is around them. Chaos in general has a smaller footprint than some Xenos armies now.

 

And in person, I've not met a Chaos Space Marine player even a casual setting that I can remember in the last 2 years. Plenty of everything else. I've seen some Deathguard around. That's not just in one spot, I travel around, they're functionally extinct in the broad region I live in.

We're too busy in the back painting trim to come out and play.

I've got a growing number of chaos players in my area. Used to be the only one then the range refresh has slowly brought them out of the woodwork.

 

As for social media I'm not surprised. People have other projects and new sculpts are coming out for xenos ranges that haven't had releases in a long time until here recently. As for the recent sculpts though that box has a bit of controversy behind it so again I'm not surprised.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Lots of us aren't playing the army right now, but are building and painting forces.

 

I got like one game with Black Legion against T'au recently, before their new Codex, but I'm just not going to play CSM until the book comes out I think. There's too many books needed, too many FAQs, not good enough to make it worthwhile much of the time right now.

 

That said, I'm painting up all sorts of stuff, some Red Corsairs, more Word Bearers, finishing up some Black Legion.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

 

@Lanparth the new Chaos range was rescaled wonderfully across the range, though. They're a hair shorter than Primaris, sure, but they're much larger than their previous incarnation.

I bought a company of them. Genuinely dissatisfied with them. It's also not a 'hair', they are much shorter when you take both sculpts standing straight, as well as their proportions on their legs are torsos are still very much out of place. The Marines are filled in, and are thicker, and are much taller. Even phobos marines dwarf their chaos counterparts.

 

Also, to add, GW doesn't release sales figures, as they'd potentially add scrutiny from their investors when they make botches, but a semi-reliable way to track if people are collecting armies is to look at how much social media activity there is around them. Chaos in general has a smaller footprint than some Xenos armies now.

 

And in person, I've not met a Chaos Space Marine player even a casual setting that I can remember in the last 2 years. Plenty of everything else. I've seen some Deathguard around. That's not just in one spot, I travel around, they're functionally extinct in the broad region I live in.

We're too busy in the back painting trim to come out and play.

I've got a growing number of chaos players in my area. Used to be the only one then the range refresh has slowly brought them out of the woodwork.

 

As for social media I'm not surprised. People have other projects and new sculpts are coming out for xenos ranges that haven't had releases in a long time until here recently. As for the recent sculpts though that box has a bit of controversy behind it so again I'm not surprised.

 

 

 

It's not even just posts, but the pool of people that are smaller thank their counterparts too. 

 

I'm glad people are enjoying what they enjoy, don't get it twisted, but to say there hasn't been a decline over the last 5 years is paramount to madness, and not just among Tournament players.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I obviously can't speak to the large international level, but to me Lanparth is 100% right. There are almost no chaos marine players at all in my area anymore since 8th, and over 50% of the group was chaos marines in 3rd-7th, including both my brothers. Most jumped ship to other factions and blamed Primaris marines. They felt like Primaris marines came out with the bonus attack (essentially a free chainsword before the AP buff) and better bolter all while having a better scale of the model. They felt like a 10,000 year old chaos marine who has fought the long War and delt with infighting in the warp between warbands and daemons would be as strong as or better than a numarine who was a little taller with a few extra organs but no real experience. It threw the scale off and their marines looked tiny and dated with worse rules. Then when the partial range refresh came out for chaos marines, they liked the models but didn't like that they are still noticeably smaller, ontop of chaos marines getting a poopy reprint of a codex with the new shadowspear box and vigilus stuff in it and after marines got the strongest codex of 8th with actual new rules and individual supplements while everyone else got a participation trophy (psychic awakening). Local stores always sell out of new stuff or alot of units when a new codex drops, but it never happened with chaos marines and the 2019 stuff. Some even still have multiples of the decimation battlebox from 2 Christmases ago.

 

I bought two of the chaos space marines start collecting (shadowspear) and the decimation battlebox from two Christmases ago but eventually sold them off. Was tired of waiting for 2 wounds. They look cool but if GW wants to leave them behind that long they must not want someone like me to purchase and play them.

 

*Assuming the rumors are true* The fact that chaos marines are now going to be called Legionnaires, a throwback to when they were large Legions, implying (my opinion of course) they are older veteran marines. And being buffed with more attacks and the new marks I think supports that GW now wants to right that wrong and make chaos marines seem more, for the lack of a better word, badass and above tactical marines and on par with primaris. The new mutants will be the equivalent to gors and poxwalkers (cheaper troop choice) and the chaos marines will be buffed and cost more than tactical marines I bet.

 

I don't mind the slight scale difference personally (the new models look good), but the rules did it for me. I know everyone hobbies different, but for me painting and modeling is just something I have to do to play. I take some joy in it (like customizing a Daemon Prince), but painting the 3rd exact same tank, the 20th plague marine and 40th poxwalker brought me absolutely no joy what so ever. I would never buy a model just to paint. The new rules (if they make it to the codex) seem awesome, and I would have loved to do a custom Fabius Bile model and his unique warband, but it's a day late and dollar short for me. I sold them off and invested that $400ish in another hobby and won't be repurchasing chaos marines.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Slave to Darkness]

Long time Chaos player (Realm of Chaos era) here, unashamed chaos fanboi/fanatic, and even I have dropped off the interest wagon. Mind you I am still finishing off my old chaos marines before I buy into the revamped kits, I dont need any distractions from my pile of shame opportunity, the only new sculpts I have purchased was Khârn and Fabius for the missus. Ill jump back in eventually, but atm chaos isnt floating my boat as a faction and thats kinda depressing when I have always been 'the chaos guy' in my gaming groups. 

[Agrest_IW]

I remember in times of 3.5 ed CSM codex chaos was more popular then SM, but after 2007 GW treat csm players like bastard child, im stop play wh40k in 2011( im just mad of lack of combinations and legion rules and new stuff)  , im always look on csm news but never excite me ( srsly 2012 dinobots) , im try to comback in 2019 . But noone told me that codex from 2019 is just reprint of old codex from 2017 + few new units , and im lose all my games xD , its not fun.

I m just w8 for better times . and normal codex , not a reprint of reprint of reprint outdated rules 

[Toldavf]

Well given some of the stuff previewed in the eldar dex ours had better be a 

 

I remember in times of 3.5 ed CSM codex chaos was more popular then SM, but after 2007 GW treat csm players like bastard child, im stop play wh40k in 2011( im just mad of lack of combinations and legion rules and new stuff)  , im always look on csm news but never excite me ( srsly 2012 dinobots) , im try to comback in 2019 . But noone told me that codex from 2019 is just reprint of old codex from 2017 + few new units , and im lose all my games xD , its not fun.

I m just w8 for better times . and normal codex , not a reprint of reprint of reprint outdated rules 

I get what you are saying and I agree with the sentiment it's clear at this point that 9th is the edition of bloat and extra special rules so I say bring it on and elevate chaos to a level where we can compete with the other new dex's in the BS department. 
 

Fact is if we aren't anything special on the table top (our dex appears to be loosing more units than it gained) that would be fine. I just want to be able to compete. 

[Danosborne]

I’m playing loads with my word bearers army, they’re nice and simple compared to the rules bloat which has got into all my other armies

[Clockworkchris]

Update post, no new info just a complete compilation

 

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
• Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
• Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
• cost points
• Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
• Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

• Jump pack: moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

• strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.

 

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game

WE

• Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Disco lord

• not much change

Sorcerer in terminator armor

• can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

• buff cultist moral

Lucius

• gains 3 additional attacks
• +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

• can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Cypher

• In the codex
• can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Mutant cultists

• a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
• big mutant at S5 t4 & ap2 in melee
• small mutant are S4 t4 & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

• No in the codex

Chosen (unit 5-10)

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
•  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
• can take icon
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
• Loadout:
• everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
• 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators

• Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
• 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
• 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
• 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

• Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed

• S5 T5 3W 5A
• unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a
• Chainsword and pistol
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 plasma pistols
• Champ
• Can take plasma pistol
• Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
• now gives +1 to psychic tests
• claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
• ws3 bs3

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

• Replace pistol for chainsword
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
• Icon
• Champ
• Plasma pistol
• 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators

• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

Other:

• Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)
• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
• Stratagem  for JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
• Stratagem  for JUMP unit : -1 attack
   

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

• Legionaires
• Chosen
• Possessed
• Bikers
• Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

• Raptors
• Warptalons
• Helbrute
• Havocs

[WrathOfTheLion]

Do you know if Fallen get army rules of some kind, or is it sounding like we'll probably see them as a Codex Supplement, perhaps in the next Vigilus campaign book?

 

I get that the datasheet isn't there, but who cares about that if they get some real rules 

Edited February 25, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Sersi]

Well given some of the stuff previewed in the eldar dex ours had better be a 

 

I remember in times of 3.5 ed CSM codex chaos was more popular then SM, but after 2007 GW treat csm players like bastard child, im stop play wh40k in 2011( im just mad of lack of combinations and legion rules and new stuff)  , im always look on csm news but never excite me ( srsly 2012 dinobots) , im try to comback in 2019 . But noone told me that codex from 2019 is just reprint of old codex from 2017 + few new units , and im lose all my games xD , its not fun.

I m just w8 for better times . and normal codex , not a reprint of reprint of reprint outdated rules 

I get what you are saying and I agree with the sentiment it's clear at this point that 9th is the edition of bloat and extra special rules so I say bring it on and elevate chaos to a level where we can compete with the other new dex's in the BS department. 

 

Fact is if we aren't anything special on the table top (our dex appears to be loosing more units than it gained) that would be fine. I just want to be able to compete. 

 

Oh...how I hope your right and that CSM finally get the two scoops of filthy, filthy OP non-sense rules.  But I've been burned oh so many times I just don't believe anymore. Remember how we were so close to getting a Matt Ward Codex in the 5th, only for GW to dial back on the crazy before it was our turn.  Or how about having that Traitor Legions book for 6-7 months?  I bet we get none of the non-sense Dark Eldar, Tau or Eldar have gotten so far in their 9th edition codices. What are they going to do make our weapons option more powerful than the loyalists? Not going to happen.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by Sersi

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Because we're mostly locked to Imperial style gear -- let's face it, only daemon engines have been given "new" guns from the Dark Mechanicum -- I don't think any OPness will come from gear. It'll be abilities and stratagems that will give us an edge.

[Khornestar]

I agree that’s how it will be, but I also don’t get why GW (seemingly) either never thinks to or cares to do things like just changing words to differentiate things. The rumors suggest they might be doing that with the accursed weapons, but that is just making multiple separate weapons into one that’s generic. Another option is just inventing new wargear to replace old stuff on a 1:1 basis.

 

E.g.: An Astartes chainsword can become a demon-tooth chainsword. A meltagun becomes an ectomeltagun. Or bolters are loaded with Daemonic shells, etc. I think it’s kinda lame we haven’t seen more of that over the years, I always thought it exemplified their lack of creativity with rules writing and adherence to the status quo. Anecdotally, I’ve seen many people over the years say they’d rather CSM be more than marines with spikes, and aside from the daemon engines and introduction of a few new things (reaper chaincannons), even new sculpts stuck to the imperial wargear paradigm when they didn’t have to.

 

Still, I think you’re right. For whatever reason they’re quite unwilling to make such changes. But considering the rumors, things like Legionnaires with buffed stats are very appealing to me. There is finally something different that takes the background into account more thoughtfully. They’re not just copied and pasted firstborn marine statline. There is talk that it doesn’t matter because Eldar and Tau will kill them as easily as cultists, and maybe that’s true, but if the alternative is just using the 8th Ed codex for even longer, I’d at least take whatever perks come along with the 9th Ed book. By the rumors, not everything is a negative change so let’s see what other abilities and stratagems are thrown our way!