Hathor42 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Aww they gotta especially as the upgrade kit doesn't really work with the new chaos marine kit well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) I've been thinking more about the Exalted Champion. Assuming that his rules stay the same he going to be essential to making the most of EC super-doctrine. I've never really used him since he's limited to walking or taking a Rhino for mobility; and usually taking Slaaneshi Daemons for melee. But he'll shine if you take him with Chosen w/ Accused Weapon, or massed melee Legionnaires. The Exalted Champion basically turns Accursed Weapons into Lightning Claws with better S and AP. Since accursed weapons are the “default” loadout for Chosen they should be pretty points efficient. The only problem is getting him a good multi-damage weapon. Since I doubt he'll have access to a Thunder hammer as its not part of the kit. But he could take a cheap power sword and swap it for Distortion for Sx2/AP-4/Dam D3/-1 to hit rolls. So he fights first wielding a chain fist at WS2, re-rolling failed wounds, and re-rolling hit against characters. Nooice! Edited March 3, 2022 by Sersi Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 > Buffs CSM melee capabilities. > Removes Warp Time capacity to setup melee. Yep, sounds about right. Thanks GW. Marshal Loss, Maschinenpriester, Sarges and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 > Buffs CSM melee capabilities. > Removes Warp Time capacity to setup melee. Yep, sounds about right. Thanks GW. Perhaps there will be more strats or things to help out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 > Buffs CSM melee capabilities. > Removes Warp Time capacity to setup melee. Yep, sounds about right. Thanks GW. Quicken, in the Aeldari book, appears to have lost the ability to charge afterward, too, and the rumors are saying that all of the Tyranid double move methods have either been removed or prohibit charging. It sounds like some kind of course correction that I'm not sure the game needs, given the power of shooting and things like Custodes bikes that don't need a double move to charge. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 It's certainly a big change to the play style. We are loosing a lot of our short range firepower, our heavy assault infantry (termites with fists) and now the best way to deliver said units. My night Lords will need a complete overhaul at this rate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 > Buffs CSM melee capabilities. > Removes Warp Time capacity to setup melee. Yep, sounds about right. Thanks GW. We haven't got anything close to the full picture yet. Montford, Khornestar and petesamd 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesuVult Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Having had more time to chew on the rules revealed so far, they still feel really bad. The Iron Warriors serve as a perfect example of this. Deny your enemies bonuses from light cover and then inflict additional damage if they use cover. When playing against Iron Warriors people just won't enter cover. It isn't a novel tactical choice, some factions already deny cover bonuses leading to people ignoring terrain aside from line of sight blocking. That feels like the design philosophy of a lot of things shown, the idea that some of these would be really cool. If anything allowed them to actually work. Chosen could be quite the threat if they weren't swinging basic power swords hoping to somehow push damage through on peer units already well stacked with buffs to take and negate those attacks before hitting back harder. I am not sure what terminators are supposed to go after now. Lord_Starscream 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) Having had more time to chew on the rules revealed so far, they still feel really bad. The Iron Warriors serve as a perfect example of this. Deny your enemies bonuses from light cover and then inflict additional damage if they use cover. When playing against Iron Warriors people just won't enter cover. It isn't a novel tactical choice, some factions already deny cover bonuses leading to people ignoring terrain aside from line of sight blocking. That feels like the design philosophy of a lot of things shown, the idea that some of these would be really cool. If anything allowed them to actually work. Chosen could be quite the threat if they weren't swinging basic power swords hoping to somehow push damage through on peer units already well stacked with buffs to take and negate those attacks before hitting back harder. I am not sure what terminators are supposed to go after now. IMO, the 8th-9th wound chart I think it won't matter because such weapons will likely be wounding on 2-3 anyways, so they may as well sit in cover regardless. Now if it was old dmg tables of past editions, thats a different story. Its just +1 to a wound roll, not +1 dmg which would be stronger in 9th. Ignore cover and the AP reductions are sweet though. Some respite from the primaris dice buckets. Edited March 3, 2022 by MegaVolt87 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Having had more time to chew on the rules revealed so far, they still feel really bad. The Iron Warriors serve as a perfect example of this. Deny your enemies bonuses from light cover and then inflict additional damage if they use cover. When playing against Iron Warriors people just won't enter cover. It isn't a novel tactical choice, some factions already deny cover bonuses leading to people ignoring terrain aside from line of sight blocking. That feels like the design philosophy of a lot of things shown, the idea that some of these would be really cool. If anything allowed them to actually work. Chosen could be quite the threat if they weren't swinging basic power swords hoping to somehow push damage through on peer units already well stacked with buffs to take and negate those attacks before hitting back harder. I am not sure what terminators are supposed to go after now. As someone who's already tested this in a few games, the Iron Warriors new tactic really screws over your enemy. You say "Just stay out of cover" but in a real match, actively staying OUT of range of all cover really screws your entire game and movement. Its amazing. TheGodOfHammers and Clockworkchris 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxeC Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) Having had more time to chew on the rules revealed so far, they still feel really bad. The Iron Warriors serve as a perfect example of this. Deny your enemies bonuses from light cover and then inflict additional damage if they use cover. When playing against Iron Warriors people just won't enter cover. It isn't a novel tactical choice, some factions already deny cover bonuses leading to people ignoring terrain aside from line of sight blocking. That feels like the design philosophy of a lot of things shown, the idea that some of these would be really cool. If anything allowed them to actually work. Chosen could be quite the threat if they weren't swinging basic power swords hoping to somehow push damage through on peer units already well stacked with buffs to take and negate those attacks before hitting back harder. I am not sure what terminators are supposed to go after now. As someone who's already tested this in a few games, the Iron Warriors new tactic really screws over your enemy. You say "Just stay out of cover" but in a real match, actively staying OUT of range of all cover really screws your entire game and movement. Its amazing. Whilst I haven't tried it, I'm feeling really good about the IW traits. I'm not really comparing them to other faction traits, I'm comparing them to my play experience today. For free, we're about to get +1 to wound in a bunch of circumstances, Ap1/2 mitigation and exploding 6s out the wazoo. There's many games I play that are close, and having this and literally nothing else would help so much. I'm super excited for that. Of course though, that's not all we're going to get. I'm so excited for the AP mitigation. If you regularly play CSM today, doubling in wounds and reducing AP is going to make you feel like you're moving miniature tanks around the board compared to today's experience of moving what might as well be paper. An obliterator/terminator sitting in cover needs the opponent to be ap-3 just to get you past a 2+ save - that's crazy! Will we be uber, S tier competitive? Honestly, who cares? We're about to get a bunch of cool stuff that will make the playing experience much more enjoyable and fun. Even if I only feel 80% as strong as another faction, I'm used to feeling 20% as strong today, and that'd make me so happy. I don't expect the odds to be even, because they can't be even - it's not a game that can really ever be truely balanced. I just want the odds to be close enough that there's a game to be had. If I get tabled by some lovely person playing the latest SMS indirect missile spam hotness, good for them, I was never going to enjoy that game anyway. Edited March 3, 2022 by AxeC TheGodOfHammers, Lazarine, Khornestar and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Having had more time to chew on the rules revealed so far, they still feel really bad. The Iron Warriors serve as a perfect example of this. Deny your enemies bonuses from light cover and then inflict additional damage if they use cover. When playing against Iron Warriors people just won't enter cover. It isn't a novel tactical choice, some factions already deny cover bonuses leading to people ignoring terrain aside from line of sight blocking. That feels like the design philosophy of a lot of things shown, the idea that some of these would be really cool. If anything allowed them to actually work. Chosen could be quite the threat if they weren't swinging basic power swords hoping to somehow push damage through on peer units already well stacked with buffs to take and negate those attacks before hitting back harder. I am not sure what terminators are supposed to go after now. As someone who's already tested this in a few games, the Iron Warriors new tactic really screws over your enemy. You say "Just stay out of cover" but in a real match, actively staying OUT of range of all cover really screws your entire game and movement. Its amazing. Whilst I haven't tried it, I'm feeling really good about the IW traits. I'm not really comparing them to other faction traits, I'm comparing them to my play experience today. For free, we're about to get +1 to wound in a bunch of circumstances, Ap1/2 mitigation and exploding 6s out the wazoo. There's many games I play that are close, and having this and literally nothing else would help so much. I'm super excited for that. Of course though, that's not all we're going to get. I'm so excited for the AP mitigation. If you regularly play CSM today, doubling in wounds and reducing AP is going to make you feel like you're moving miniature tanks around the board compared to today's experience of moving what might as well be paper. An obliterator/terminator sitting in cover needs the opponent to be ap-3 just to get you past a 2+ save - that's crazy! Dont forget the mark of nurgle for -1 to wound! TheGodOfHammers and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) Thank you for continuing the positive outlook. It won’t all be doom and gloom, though there are always the growing pains that come with a new codex. Might not be our personal favorite units or legions that stand out as the best, but so it goes… I’m seeing enough to be excited about to temper the things that feel like nerds nerfs, lacking much context and details. Clockworkchris: Is the psyker upgrade only for Legionnaire squads? Edited March 3, 2022 by Khornestar Tallarn Commander and TheGodOfHammers 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 Hey Clockworkchris, is there any more information about renegades and "build-a-subfaction" rules? And does your source know anything about Codex: World Eaters? Khornestar and Lord Abaia 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestBlade Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 All I know I’m making a legionaries squads with breacher shields to count as mark of nurgle for my IWs MegaVolt87, Doctor Perils, Tallarn Commander and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 All I know I’m making a legionaries squads with breacher shields to count as mark of nurgle for my IWs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Ngl now that I have had a good think about it the only thing I really want in a new dex is kick ass crusade rules. I wanna see people develop from nothing to a Daemon Prince or something along those lines. tinpact, Lord Abaia and Balthamal 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Hi Clockworkchris, could you clarify what's going on with Noise Marines? They're in the book but are they prevented from taking legion traits and icons? Or is that just the other cults that have to be taken from outside the codex? Also for Lucius is it that he got +3 attacks added to his current stat line attacks, and get +1 damage vs WS3+; or he gains +3 attacks and +1 damage vs WS3+. Thank you for the drops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 MoP Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker Cast 2 deny 1 When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12" Malefic dis 1. +1 to wound 2. Bring back a daemonkin model 3.4+ inv to Daemonkin units and enemy's take mortals if they charge 4. Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it 5. 6's to hit auto wound for a daemonkin unit 6. +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test) The is no longer a way to give characters a jump pack, only the daemon prince can still be equipped with wings. MoE (elite slot) Rerolls wounds v char 6" heroic intervene Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion) Gains a wound and an attack Dank Apostle all god specific prayers are entirely new Khornestar, TheGodOfHammers, WrathOfTheLion and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) Thank you for sharing this new info. The is no longer a way to give characters a jump pack, only the daemon prince can still be equipped with wingsThat one is rough. Really rough. I was hoping the no model no rules was going to spare jump lords since Haarken exists, but I guess no dice eh? Really need to see this all in context to judge properly, but CSM don’t exactly have 10 different versions of HQ characters like loyalists do. With the biker lord already relegated to legends years ago, there will only be the Blackstone fortress hammer guy, with no upgrade options? Thankfully there’s a terminator lord/sorc kit so at least the tougher version will persist. I do like MoE going to elites though. And those powers sound great for the Daemonkin keyword units still in the codex. Possessed are excited to play. Not that it wasn’t clear based on the rumors up until now but there are some major changes to the way this army plays. As with Khorne Daemonkin and juggernaut lords, cool options are fading away from matched play. Let’s see what we get in the trade. Edited March 4, 2022 by Khornestar RolandTHTG, WrathOfTheLion, Iron Father Ferrum and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 to answer the questions, legionaires are the only ones to get the upgrades. EC can still use troop noise marines that get legion traits (but only them) lucius seems to be +3 to current statline. TheGodOfHammers, Sersi, Hathor42 and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesuVult Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Sure would be a shame if I kitbashed a lord using warp talons. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) MoP Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker Cast 2 deny 1 When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12" Malefic dis 1. +1 to wound 2. Bring back a daemonkin model 3.4+ inv to Daemonkin units and enemy's take mortals if they charge 4. Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it 5. 6's to hit auto wound for a daemonkin unit 6. +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test) The is no longer a way to give characters a jump pack, only the daemon prince can still be equipped with wings. MoE (elite slot) Rerolls wounds v char 6" heroic intervene Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion) Gains a wound and an attack Dank Apostle all god specific prayers are entirely new wow is that some eye popping stuff... if true. If the defiler is a daemonkin then BL can have it hitting on 2s with exploding 6s and +1 to wound. Yikes. Edited March 4, 2022 by SanguinaryGuardsman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Clockworkchris.... Since characters can't get jump packs now, why is the NL relic a jump pack? Does the relic itself give you FLY? Okidoki back to the realm of rumour/leaks that make 100% sense. Ive been asking about night lords stuff:NL Wlt6" aura that cancels obsecNL relicJump pack; move over unit or if you charge a unit, d3 MW on a 2+. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Clockworkchris.... Since characters can't get jump packs now, why is the NL relic a jump pack? Does the relic itself give you FLY? Okidoki back to the realm of rumour/leaks that make 100% sense. Ive been asking about night lords stuff: NL Wlt 6" aura that cancels obsec NL relic Jump pack; move over unit or if you charge a unit, d3 MW on a 2+. good question I will revalidate with my source, probably I made a mistake in transcription. Khornestar and Silas7 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/43/#findComment-5801719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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