MegaVolt87 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 I've been hoping they're going to do something with basic bolters. Call them Chaos Boltguns or Corrupted Boltguns or something and then give them a small stat bump: a point of AP, D2, something to make them less useless. Well, according to these leaks, you'll be able to: the Tzeentch Icon increasing the AP of range weapons by -1. It's nothing amazing, Intercessors have that by default, but I'm still pretty happy with that - it was one of my wishes and it might come true. Hopefully, we won't be forced to buy Daemonic Gifts to use the Icons though. Forcing players to invest more points for stuff you don't need just so they can have a minor buff like -1 AP is a sure way to kill a fun option. I don't know, the way I see it it makes more sense to need to take an icon before you can access demonic gifts. You need patron(s) to get a gift in the lore, so having a squad icon for attention in the first place makes more sense lore wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5802937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Can't help but feel that units should be at least semi effective before you start upgrading them. Some legions don't even want marks and players shouldn't be forced to take them just to access a relevant level of power in game. the current book is guilty of this, when was the last time you saw havoc without the mark of slaneshi? Aarik, Bulwyf, Khornestar and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5802974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) Can't help but feel that units should be at least semi effective before you start upgrading them. Some legions don't even want marks and players shouldn't be forced to take them just to access a relevant level of power in game. the current book is guilty of this, when was the last time you saw havoc without the mark of slaneshi? This has been a historical gripe of mine, as well. Doesn't take much effort to figure out ways to diversify the effects of marks and icons and such based on the unit. My havocs of Khorne just don't care about +1 strength on the charge or re-rolling charge distance. In a pinch sure, perhaps those aren't absolutely without value, but nobody is taking heavy-weapon-only havocs for anything other than shooty support. Khorne +1 shot with heavy bolters, whatever the heck it might be, just something different. This sort of diversity and nuance would be an absolute thrill to finally see. Edited March 9, 2022 by Khornestar Doctor Perils, Silas7, Bulwyf and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5802983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Can't help but feel that units should be at least semi effective before you start upgrading them. Some legions don't even want marks and players shouldn't be forced to take them just to access a relevant level of power in game. the current book is guilty of this, when was the last time you saw havoc without the mark of slaneshi? This has been a historical gripe of mine, as well. Doesn't take much effort to figure out ways to diversify the effects of marks and icons and such based on the unit. My havocs of Khorne just don't care about +1 strength on the charge or re-rolling charge distance. In a pinch sure, perhaps those aren't absolutely without value, but nobody is taking heavy-weapon-only havocs for anything other than shooty support. Khorne +1 shot with heavy bolters, whatever the heck it might be, just something different. This sort of diversity and nuance would be an absolute thrill to finally see. Mark buffs could be more utility for appropriate points. Mark of Khorne granting +1 strength for attacks would be hilarious. S10 lascannon, S6 heavy bolter etc. I worry the new system will just be a arbitrary flow chart than a toolbox of options to consider and compare. Khornestar and techsoldaten 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 In about an hour, i will have a lot of info to drop. MegaVolt87, Lagrath, WrathOfTheLion and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of the Despoiler Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 You have us on the edge of our seats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I think an elegant system would be to have icons, and daemonic gifts not tied to each other, but instead tied to a no cost, no benefit mark that provides nothing other than a keyword (same as 8th). Then you can pick and choose either an icon, gift or both depending on what the unit is allowed to take, and how useful you think it would be. Although a gift and icon free-for-all would be pretty wonderful, I can't imagine the rules writers making that radical of a departure from the status quo. I'd be down for it if they do though... @Clockworkchris I've got my fingers crossed for some more info about the renegade build-a-warband options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 In about an hour, i will have a lot of info to drop. It's been about 90 minutes. I need my injection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) NOCTILITH CROWN T8 14w Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades Increasing aura every turn -1ld 4++ vs shooting PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION ACTION, perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell DISCO LORD +1 to hit daemon engines in melee Instead of healing vehicules can hurt ennemy vehicules Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet) WARPSMITH Can heal vehicules +1 to hit for daemon engines for shooting EXALTED CHAMPION Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol) Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6") Cannot change loadout Hits better, more wounds, more attacks Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura: Daemon prince Accursed cultists possessed Chaos spawn Raptors Edited March 9, 2022 by Clockworkchris Silas7 and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of the Despoiler Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What is an accursed cultist ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Is there an Aspiring Champion model for the datasheet to match the loadout to? Or is that one we're expecting to see? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What is an accursed cultist ? Probably the possessed/mutant cultist mentioned earlier in the leaks, a new unit for CSM. ASPIRING CHAMPION Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol) Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6") Cannot change loadout Hits better, more wounds, more attacks What a disappointment. I don't see people running this guy. Although being Elites is nice. DISCO LORD +1 to hit daemon engines in melee Instead of healing vehicules can hurt ennemy vehicules Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet) I assume Lord Discordant is treated as a Chaos Lord. The boost stuff might refer to MoP's spells (since Disco Lords were one of the best units in 8th). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodOfHammers Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What is an accursed cultist ? I'm going to assume that is the name for the mutant cultists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Accursed cultist is the mutant/possessed cultists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Is there an Aspiring Champion model for the datasheet to match the loadout to? Or is that one we're expecting to see? It's the Champion from the Dark Vengeance set that is sold separately by GW. Or was... I think they've removed him. Weird. Aarik 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Chris, do you know what it means when Tzeentch mark ignores first failed save? Is that per model? And if it's per model, is it per phase or per player turn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiju Soze Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) By Aspiring Champion, do we mean Exalted Champion (the current model-less LT equivalent)? Edited March 9, 2022 by Kaiju Soze Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Is there an Aspiring Champion model for the datasheet to match the loadout to? Or is that one we're expecting to see? Yes. Or at least there was. https://search.brave.com/images?q=aspiring+champion&source=web#0 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Chris, do you know what it means when Tzeentch mark ignores first failed save? Is that per model? And if it's per model, is it per phase or per player turn? No idea, but my guess is its on a model basis, per volley. so say someone shoots 20 bolter shots at some marines, roll all saves, take only the failed and discard 1 and then apply damage until 1 marine model is dead, then discard another doce and apply damage until he is dead and repeat. By Aspiring Champion, do we mean Exalted Champion (the current model-less LT equivalent)? You are correct, i just edited my post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesuVult Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Pretty sure the only independent champion model chaos still has access to is the plague marine champion. The others all look to be OOP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Chris, do you know what it means when Tzeentch mark ignores first failed save? Is that per model? And if it's per model, is it per phase or per player turn? No idea, but my guess is its on a model basis, per volley. so say someone shoots 20 bolter shots at some marines, roll all saves, take only the failed and discard 1 and then apply damage until 1 marine model is dead, then discard another doce and apply damage until he is dead and repeat. If it's per volley and per model, that could be incredibly strong for elite models. Someone shoots 4 anti-tank weapons at a squad of terminators. Even if all wound, save the first one, fail the second one and ignore it, fail the third one and a model dies, then fail the fourth one on a new model but ignore it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Chris, do you know what it means when Tzeentch mark ignores first failed save? Is that per model? And if it's per model, is it per phase or per player turn?No idea, but my guess is its on a model basis, per volley. so say someone shoots 20 bolter shots at some marines, roll all saves, take only the failed and discard 1 and then apply damage until 1 marine model is dead, then discard another doce and apply damage until he is dead and repeat. If it's per volley and per model, that could be incredibly strong for elite models. Someone shoots 4 anti-tank weapons at a squad of terminators. Even if all wound, save the first one, fail the second one and ignore it, fail the third one and a model dies, then fail the fourth one on a new model but ignore it. Thats how i feel it would work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Im even happier now with my Noct Crown. Its been sleeper OP in my lists for over a year with a 5++, a 4++ is insane. Imagine trying to chew through 60 cultists with a 4++ on them. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon303 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I'd imagine it'll work the same was as the helix gauntlet for infiltrators. No way it'll be per model and per volley that's ridiculous Lord Raven 19 and tinpact 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Im even happier now with my Noct Crown. Its been sleeper OP in my lists for over a year with a 5++, a 4++ is insane. Imagine trying to chew through 60 cultists with a 4++ on them. I wonder if it's actually useful... Just about everything other than Cultists has a 3+ save, and those cultists would be confined to the aura. IIRC, the aura only applied to units who were wholly in range. Is 4++ actually better than 3+? Farming CP would be useful if there wasn't a 1CP per turn limit. DAs / Sorcerers probably have better things to do than hang back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/46/#findComment-5803153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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