What to expect from 9e CSM

[Sersi]

I really hope Havocs are core so that they can make use of good synergies. I doubt they get icons though. Iron Warrior Nurgle Havocs near Nocolith Crown sounds great. 

From what was said Havocs don't have Icons. But their is still hope for "warband abilities" and stratagems. 

[Clockworkchris]

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

 

Legionaires

Chosen

Possessed

Bikers

Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

 

Raptors

Warptalons

Helbrute

Havocs

[Lagrath]

That makes sense and seems to confirm that we are getting a new Possesed kit if they can get icons.

[Sersi]

It also explains why Greater Possessed are no Longer in the book.  They were probably always meant to be new possessed models.  

[Slave to Darkness]

Looks like my champions are getting new arms then if you cant change the weapons. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

Is there an Aspiring Champion model for the datasheet to match the loadout to? Or is that one we're expecting to see?

 

It's the Champion from the Dark Vengeance set that is sold separately by GW. Or was... I think they've removed him. Weird.

 

He's probably being re-boxed with the correct name......finally.

[Cryptix]

 

 

 

 

Is there an Aspiring Champion model for the datasheet to match the loadout to? Or is that one we're expecting to see?

It's the Champion from the Dark Vengeance set that is sold separately by GW. Or was... I think they've removed him. Weird.

He's probably being re-boxed with the correct name......finally.

Hopefully that means that box with the Champion + 20 Cultists comes back too, there isn't a way to get Cultists at the moment other than that one Blackstone fortress box

[Clockworkchris]

Final leak of the day

 

who has the DAEMONKIN keyword:

 

MoP

Possessed

Warptalon

Obliterators

[Sukrai]

So, gear wise there WON'T be a difference between the Exalted Champion and the MoE... that is unfortunate, as it means that again there is little to differentiate the two. Having a larger gear choice was basically it for setting them apart... and now even that is gone. Are we sure GW isn't just rolling them into the same package?

[Cryptix]

So, gear wise there WON'T be a difference between the Exalted Champion and the MoE... that is unfortunate, as it means that again there is little to differentiate the two. Having a larger gear choice was basically it for setting them apart... and now even that is gone. Are we sure GW isn't just rolling them into the same package?

???

The Master of Executions is a character with a power fist with no -1 to hit with bonuses to character killing and the champion is a fixed load out lieutenant with a power axe, they're completely different.

[Khornestar]

Final leak of the day

 

who has the DAEMONKIN keyword:

 

MoP

Possessed

Warptalon

Obliterators

 

Ah interesting, not daemon engines! Still, that's cool, can bring a lord discordant/warpsmith to help them out.

 

Bringing 1+ of each daemonkin unit sounds like a super fun list and has a bit of everything.

[Clockworkchris]

Update post, no new info just a complete compilation

 

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
• Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
• Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
• cost points
• Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save (this is per unit per volley)
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

Hereticus discipline:

• Tzeentch 4++
• Slaanesh 5+++
• Nurgle -1 to hit
• Warptime: unit affected by warptime cannot charge afterwards

Malefic discipline:

• DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators
• +1 to wound
• Bring back a DAEMONKIN model
• 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge
• Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it
• 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit
• +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
• Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

• FLY relic (daemon prince only it seems): moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

• strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.

 

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game

WE

• Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Disco lord

• +1 to hit daemon engines in melee
• Instead of healing vehicules can hurt ennemy vehicules
• Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet)

Warpsmith

• Can heal vehicules
• +1 to hit for daemon engines for shooting

MoE (elite slot)

• Rerolls wounds v char
• 6" heroic intervene
• Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends 
• Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion)
• Gains a wound and an attack

Dank Apostle

• all god specific prayers are entirely new
• cast 1 prayer (stratagem to cast another prayer)

MoP

• Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker
• Cast 2 deny 1
• When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast
• Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12"

Sorcerer in terminator armor

• can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

• buff cultist moral

Lucius

• gains 3 additional attacks
• +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

• can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Cypher

• In the codex
• can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Accursed cultists

• a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
• big mutant at S5 t4 & ap2 in melee
• small mutant are S4 t4 & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

• No in the codex

Exalted Champion

• Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
• Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
• Cannot change loadout
• Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

Chosen (unit 5-10)

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
•  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
• can take icon
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
• Loadout:
• everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
• 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators

• Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
• 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
• 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
• 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

• Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed

• S5 T5 3W 5A
• unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a
• Chainsword and pistol
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 plasma pistols
• Champ
• Can take plasma pistol
• Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
• now gives +1 to psychic tests
• claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
• ws3 bs3

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

• Replace pistol for chainsword
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
• Icon
• Champ
• Plasma pistol
• 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators

• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

Noctilith Crown

• T8 14w
• Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades
• Increasing aura every turn of -1l/4++ vs shooting
• PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION: perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell

Other:

• Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)
• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
• Stratagem  for JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
• Stratagem  for JUMP unit : -1 attack
• No way of giving jump pack to characters
   

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

• Legionaires
• Chosen
• Possessed
• Bikers
• Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

• Raptors
• Warptalons
• Helbrute
• Havocs

Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura:

• Daemon prince
• Accursed cultists
• possessed
• Chaos spawn
• Raptors

[Marshal Loss]

It also explains why Greater Possessed are no Longer in the book.  They were probably always meant to be new possessed models.  

Maybe, but probably not based on Jes Goodwin's design interview following the Shadowspear release. More likely they made a decision after the fact just to upsize all Possessed (which, if the models are anything like the GPs, I am very much on board with). Given that Possessed are meant to be literally swollen with power anyway, having bigger gribblies on 40mm bases like the enormously popular & thematically comparable Gal Vorbak kit from FW makes a lot of sense.

 

 

 

 

It's the Champion from the Dark Vengeance set that is sold separately by GW. Or was... I think they've removed him. Weird.

He's probably being re-boxed with the correct name......finally.

Hopefully that means that box with the Champion + 20 Cultists comes back too, there isn't a way to get Cultists at the moment other than that one Blackstone fortress box

 

Don't see that happening - the new cultists coming with our codex are rumoured/expected to be styled like the Blackstone Fortress ones.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Do you guys think if the greater possessed models are changing to normal possessed that they are getting some Stat changes to match the newer larger models? Death guard possessed have 5S and 5T but only 2W and 4A. 2W seems insulting to the larger greater possessed models (which are currently 5W).

[Lord Abaia]

Do you guys think if the greater possessed models are changing to normal possessed that they are getting some Stat changes to match the newer larger models? Death guard possessed have 5S and 5T but only 2W and 4A. 2W seems insulting to the larger greater possessed models (which are currently 5W).

Clockworkchris says that they are going to S5/T5/3W/5A.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

Do you guys think if the greater possessed models are changing to normal possessed that they are getting some Stat changes to match the newer larger models? Death guard possessed have 5S and 5T but only 2W and 4A. 2W seems insulting to the larger greater possessed models (which are currently 5W).

Clockworkchris says that they are going to S5/T5/3W/5A.

Nice. DG ones will probably stay at 2W, 4A and be more points. I don't know if the -1D and plague weapon is worth less attacks, wounds and not being able to take mark stuff. We shall see. It's exciting to see rumors but it can make mere months seem much longer haha.

[Marshal Mittens]

Deathguard were a pretty early Codex, and like all the early Codexes we were really strong for a little bit, but pretty weak now. We will eventually get another DG codex, probably in early 10e, and be ok again.

[Plague _Lord]

 

 

Do you guys think if the greater possessed models are changing to normal possessed that they are getting some Stat changes to match the newer larger models? Death guard possessed have 5S and 5T but only 2W and 4A. 2W seems insulting to the larger greater possessed models (which are currently 5W).

Clockworkchris says that they are going to S5/T5/3W/5A.

Nice. DG ones will probably stay at 2W, 4A and be more points. I don't know if the -1D and plague weapon is worth less attacks, wounds and not being able to take mark stuff. We shall see. It's exciting to see rumors but it can make mere months seem much longer haha.

 

 

Hehe remember when we got 2 wounds and the rest of the chaos factions thought they would also get it via balance slate/new codex? yeah well we will probably wait the same ammount of time for updated possessed :D

[Khornestar]

Have we seen anything mentioned re: summoning daemons? Or interacting with that codex/list building? Edited March 10, 2022 by Khornestar

[Iron Inspirit]

So, since only Core and Character can have marks, we can now calculate that all of these units WILL HAVE core.
 

• Legionaires
• Chosen
• Possessed
• Bikers
• Terminator
• Raptors
• Warptalons
• Helbrute
• Havocs

[Clockworkchris]

That is correct i just got confirmation that obliterators are not core.

[Sandviper]

That is correct i just got confirmation that obliterators are not core.

meanwhile broadsides....man what a shame. I love my oblitz. Still going to try them though with the new profiles. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Clockworkchris, great work as always putting the master list of rumours together and your continuing rumour drops - helps keep enthusiasm up in these between codex days, though I know I won't be building another melee noise marine unit until I see what the codex does to them.

 

Some clarifications about your list of rumours, though - and if you don't know, you don't know:

 

1.  You refer to some legion traits as "super doctrines" - what does this mean? 

 

2.  For the disco lord, you put that instead of healing vehicles, he can harm enemy vehicles - does this mean he can't heal friendly vehicles, or that he can do one or the other in a turn (like the current warpsmith)?

 

3.  Does the warpsmith retain his ability to do both, or can he now only heal?

 

4.  When you refer to the exalted champion as being a "lieutenant", do you mean only in terms of its aura or is it 2 per slot like a space marine lieutenant?

 

5.  Cult troops can no longer get legion traits - am I correct in assuming Emperor's Children noise marines are an exception to this?  You had mentioned earlier that Emperor's children can take them as troops rather than elites - you might want to put that in your summary under the entry for Cult Troops.

 

6.  Interesting that the accursed weapon on the chosen/termies is different from the daemon weapon on the legionnaires.  Is the chose one weapon from the melee list for the legionnaire champion in addition to the pistol or demon weapon, or instead of one or the other?

 

7.  Do we know if the units with the -1 to leadership ability stack?

[Elazar The Glorified]

Also on EC Noise Marines, are they CORE?

[Lagrath]

Obliterators not being core sounds like a real gutpunch to an already-suffering unit, especially combined with what sounds like the removal of the malefic power to reroll 1s to hit and to wound. Maybe it will work out anyway? Black Legion Obliterators with +1 to hit versus nearest unit could be good.