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What to expect from 9e CSM

Marshal Loss

By Marshal Loss
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Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

So, how come there havent been any leaks about the points costs of any unit or their upgrades? They have to have some idea with all this info.

Obviously he has the info, but i do not ask because it could be a dead giveaway to GW who the playtester is and also these are playtesrer rules, so points are surely bot the final ones we will see in the codex. And with him only answering 2 to 3 questions every 1 or 2 days, i prefer to ask more important things.

Sorry to be crass, but the nid codex just leaked in its entirety, in a damn PDF cleanly listing every single detail, but this guy is afraid to drop a point total or get outed by GW spies? Come on.

Dont shoot the messenger lol. But if it reaasures you he had shared info on the nid dex to me that I posted on the nid discord (its even pinned if you want to see it) and with the nid leak he was 100 % correct.

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted (edited)

Another thing to take into account is adepticon is next weekend, and you can sure as :cuss that there will be csm stuff in the reveals.

 

And from what i gathered from the eldar leaks, is that the leaks were permitted with the exception of images of the avatar of khaine who they wanted to showcase first, and this info was mentionned a lot on the eldar discord.

Edited by Clockworkchris
Iron Inspirit Battle-Brother

Iron Inspirit

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

 

So, how come there havent been any leaks about the points costs of any unit or their upgrades? They have to have some idea with all this info.

Obviously he has the info, but i do not ask because it could be a dead giveaway to GW who the playtester is and also these are playtesrer rules, so points are surely bot the final ones we will see in the codex. And with him only answering 2 to 3 questions every 1 or 2 days, i prefer to ask more important things.
Sorry to be crass, but the nid codex just leaked in its entirety, in a damn PDF cleanly listing every single detail, but this guy is afraid to drop a point total or get outed by GW spies? Come on.

Dont shoot the messenger lol. But if it reaasures you he had shared info on the nid dex to me that I posted on the nid discord (its even pinned if you want to see it) and with the nid leak he was 100 % correct.

 

Im 99% sure these leaks for chaos are real too, for sure. Its too on point for the current times and too complete.

 

Just think people think WAY more of GW's boogeymen when the company can't even read open reddit threads for clear issues that existed 6 months ago. The only people who get outed are massive channels with millions of views that cannot be ignored. 

Edited by Iron Inspirit
Relentless Novitiate

Relentless

Posted
Posted

It's good to remember none of us are entitled to these rumors, so dont be a jerk demanding more, or belittle their choice to not want to lose access to their privilege of being a playtester.  It's also not very hard for GW to check who is leaking what, if they really wanted to.  Erring on the side of caution is smart.

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

It's good to remember none of us are entitled to these rumors, so dont be a jerk demanding more, or belittle their choice to not want to lose access to their privilege of being a playtester. It's also not very hard for GW to check who is leaking what, if they really wanted to. Erring on the side of caution is smart.

The long con if you will.
Toldavf Battle-Brother

Toldavf

Posted
Posted

At this point, I think it will come down to points costs and strats whether CSM can keep up with any of the crazy over the top, super strong recent 9th ed codexes. 

 

I am kinda curious as to how we stop some of those big nid beasties with more limited numbers of melta/plasma and no real access to damage 3 infantry.

 

I'm currently seeing no heavy hitting infantry lots of damage 1 but nothing more than that. I am really hoping they aren't going to make the list reliant on dinobots to do reasonable damage. 

 

Currently with a little strat support my terminators can kill the new tyranofex (T8, W17 2+), Under the new rules they will struggle to get it into the second bracket and probably cost more for the pleasure.

 

So I am really curious where the damage in the army will be. 

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

My personal take is we will see daemon engines and classic armor be the solution to all the nid beasties. A predator sitting pretty in a noctilith crown aura.

 

The basic helbrute is going to be a hell of a thing to try and shift.

Khornestar Venerable Brother

Khornestar

Posted
Posted (edited)

Assuming it has to do with getting a new kit, but the info Clockworkchris provided suggests that bikers will be the unit in which we can pack the most special weapons. 

 

 

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

  • Replace pistol for chainsword
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
  • Icon
  • Champ
  • Plasma pistol
  • 1 weapon from Melee weapon

 

Of course we don't know the exact wording/restrictions but that's 2 meltas and 2 combi-meltas in a unit of 5. Not great, but not awful? Best we will be able to do, as far as special weapons go, at any rate.

Edited by Khornestar
Toldavf Battle-Brother

Toldavf

Posted
Posted

Assuming it has to do with getting a new kit, but the info Clockworkchris provided suggests that bikers will be the unit in which we can pack the most special weapons. 

 

 

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

  • Replace pistol for chainsword
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
  • Icon
  • Champ
  • Plasma pistol
  • 1 weapon from Melee weapon

 

Of course we don't know the exact wording/restrictions but that's 2 meltas and 2 combi-meltas in a unit of 5. Not great, but not awful? Best we will be able to do, as far as special weapons go, at any rate.

About 190pts for that unit give or take.  5 bikes at 30pts a pop 10 points per melta gun.  A potential 20 inch move could deliver the shots nicely though you would want to avoid the -1 for advancing and firing assault weapons generally. 

 

Still it's only the shooting half of what termies do atm. 

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

Update post, no new info just a complete compilation

 

CSM doctrine:

  • Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
  • Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
  • Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
  • Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

  • Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
  • cost points
  • Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

  • Khorne: +1S on the charge
  • Nurgle: -1 to wound
  • Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save (this is per unit per volley)
  • Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

  • vengeance +1 CA
  • wrath +1ap melee
  • flame +1ap shooting
  • excess +1 to hit melee
  • despair 6s to hit = autowound

Hereticus discipline:

  • Tzeentch 4++
  • Slaanesh 5+++
  • Nurgle -1 to hit
  • Warptime: unit affected by warptime cannot charge afterwards

Malefic discipline:

  • DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators
  • +1 to wound
  • Bring back a DAEMONKIN model
  • 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge
  • Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it
  • 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit
  • +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

 

  • All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
  • Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

  • -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
  • +1 to advance & +1 to charges
  • Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

  • 6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

  • FLY relic (daemon prince only it seems): moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 

Stratagems

  • Vox scream: cancels AURAS
  • Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

  • Ignores cover
  • Reduce ap1/2 by 1
  • Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

  • Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

 

WB

  • Charges/HI = reroll hits
  • 5+++ vs MW
  • Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

 

BL

  • ignore CA
  • +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
  • Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

  • strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.

 

Alpha legion

  • -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
  • Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
  • Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap


Emperor's children

  • Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
  • Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
  • wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
  • Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)
  • Noise Marines are troops


Red corsairs

  • Charge if they advanced
  • Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
  • wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap


Creations of bile

  • +1 str/move
  • Fight after death in melee
  • wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound


''Build a warband'' renegade traits

  • +4" to range other than grenade and relic
  • After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
  • After charging, in melee 6s to hit autowound (khorne specific)
  • In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (tzeentch specific)
  • +1 to wound vs half strength unit (nurgle specific
  • +1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (slaanesh specific)
  • +1 to advance and charge rolls
  • +1 to hit when targetting clossest ennemy unit
  • +1 movement & strength
  • Ignore CA/Fallback and shoot/fallback and charge; but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (All uncompassing; unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)

WE

  • Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Chaos lord

  • base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
  • has access to all melee weapons

 

Abbadon

  • 8A s10 ap4 d3, 6+ to wound cuases d3 MW (drachnyen pierce)
  • 16A s7 ap4 d1 (drachnyen sweep)
  • always fights first
  • -1 to wound
  • first failed save reduced to 0 damage
  • +1s on the charge
  • can only take max 3 damage per phase
  • full rerolls
  • charge bonus
  • supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)

 

Disco lord

  • +1 to hit VEHICULES in melee
  • Instead of healing vehicules can hurt ennemy vehicules
  • Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet)

Warpsmith

  • Can heal vehicules
  • +1 to hit for VEHICULES for shooting

MoE (elite slot)

  • Rerolls wounds v char
  • 6" heroic intervene
  • Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends 
  • Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion)
  • Gains a wound and an attack

Dank Apostle

  • all god specific prayers are entirely new
  • cast 1 prayer (stratagem to cast another prayer)
  • no longer has illusionory supplication

MoP

  • Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker
  • Cast 2 deny 1
  • When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast
  • Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12"

Sorcerer in terminator armor

  • can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

  • buff cultist moral

Lucius

  • gains 3 additional attacks
  • +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

  • can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Cypher

  • In the codex
  • can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries

  • legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
  • same profile as before but 2W and 3a (4a on the AC) (not confirmed but my guess is 10 man squad like plague marines and rubrics)
  • loadout:
  • AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
  • Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
  • 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
  • 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
  • 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
  • 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
  • 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Accursed cultists

  • a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
  • big mutant at S5 t4 & ap2 in melee
  • small mutant are S4 t4 & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

  • Are no longuer in the codex
  • Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
  • Always Elites
  • can benefit from army rules
  • Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

  • No in the codex

Exalted Champion

  • Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
  • Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
  • Cannot change loadout
  • Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

Chosen (unit 5-10)

  • 3w
  • Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
  •  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
  • can take icon
  • Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
  • Loadout:
  • everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
  • 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
  • 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
  • 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators

  • Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
  • 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
  • 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
  • 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
  • 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
  • 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
  • 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
  • 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

  • Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed

  • S5 T5 3W 5A
  • unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
  • Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

  • no longer in the book

 

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

  • lost cancel overwatch
  • gained no fallback
  • 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

  • still have the -1LD aura
  • +2a
  • Chainsword and pistol
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 plasma pistols
  • Champ
  • Can take plasma pistol
  • Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

  • is now FA
  • is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
  • now gives +1 to psychic tests
  • claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
  • ws3 bs3

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

  • Replace pistol for chainsword
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
  • Icon
  • Champ
  • Plasma pistol
  • 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators

  • have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
  • Not core
  • ignore modifier for heavy weapons
  • armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
  • Has 3 shooting profiles:
  • Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
  • Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
  • Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs

  • exactly the same as right now but 2w

Noctilith Crown

  • T8 14w
  • Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades
  • Increasing aura every turn of -1l/4++ vs shooting
  • PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION: perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell

Other:

  • Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)
  • The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
  • Stratagem  for JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
  • Stratagem  for JUMP unit : -1 attack
  • Stratagem daemonforge: +1 BS/WS for daemon engines
  • Stratagem : biker strat, if they advance -1 to hit
  • Stratagem for nurgle only transhuman physiology 4+
  • No way of giving jump pack to characters
  • No murdersword
     

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

  • Legionaires
  • Chosen
  • Possessed
  • Bikers
  • Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

  • Raptors
  • Warptalons
  • Helbrute
  • Havocs

Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura (these stack among each other):

  • Daemon prince
  • Accursed cultists
  • possessed
  • Chaos spawn
  • Raptors
Doctor Perils Venerable Brother

Doctor Perils

Posted
Posted

Im 99% sure these leaks for chaos are real too, for sure. Its too on point for the current times and too complete.

 

Just think people think WAY more of GW's boogeymen when the company can't even read open reddit threads for clear issues that existed 6 months ago. The only people who get outed are massive channels with millions of views that cannot be ignored.

 

It's not just to do with playtesting privileges, breaking an NDA can have pretty severe legal consequences - apparently the Horus Heresy 2.0 leakers are facing some backlash from GW already.

Also, reading reddit threads about rules issues and the legal team doing the best to protect the company's IP are two completely different beasts - one might, potentially make them a bit of money; the other almost certainly will.

Captain Incompetence Veteran

Captain Incompetence

Posted
Posted

So far I'm relatively happy with the leaks as they stand except for the lack of jump pack on HQ units. Baffling decision if true, especially since our loyalist counterparts do have a jump pack available on their captains. I'm also not a big fan of limiting wargear based on what's inside the box. I understand why they'd do it this way, but it'll just end up slowing down the game even more due to having three or more different weapons in a squad of 5 models. On top of that, I believe CSM players tend to not have many issues with conversions and kitbashing anyway. The army has been a conversion heaven for many collector's and players for the entirety of it's existence.

 

In regards to Accursed Weapons, I'm also conflicted. I think it's not a bad idea to place power swords, power axes and power mauls under that umbrella, but then you end up with lightning claws on the terminators and chosen seemingly falling under it as well. However, there are still lightning claws in the army with the Warp Talons? Just a very confusing decision if you ask me. These kind of strange decisions are also noticeable with the Raptor champion, as you can put a powerfist on him but not a lightning claw? Despite that kit having an absolute ton of the latter and not a single powerfist in it? This would also mean that you can have a power sword on a terminator or Chosen being an Accursed Weapon, but still being your standard Power Sword in the Raptor unit. That'll definitely not be confusing for your opponent :rolleyes:.

 

So yeah, some very strange decisions on the rulewriters part if true. I'm hoping the wargear leaks are just incomplete or something. Regardless, thanks for the work you're putting in Clockworkchris :thumbsup: .

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