What to expect from 9e CSM

[Lord Abaia]

Who wants to bet that the DG and 1ksons will have to wait ~ 2 years to get updated to the regular CSM version (ie more wounds, more damage, less transport space)??

For possessed? Unfortunately I think you are right.

 

I would really hope that they just release an errata though. Updated profiles across three books (four when World Eaters get released) would probably translate to better sales of the upcoming kit. But I don't pretend to understand the esoteric inner workings of the dark cabal that makes these decisions.

[Slave to Darkness]

New Possessed if they are the same size as the Greater Possessed will look epic jumping out of my 1st ed Rhino. :lol: 

 

Bring on the clown cars!!! 

[Clockworkchris]

 

 

So guys say hi to my source, he/she been following the thread since the start and had some answers to some of your questions.

 

-Possessed take up 2 spaces in transports.

-land raiders are still bad

-nurgle mark -1 to wound only applies if S=T or if S/2>=T

-tzeentch mark ability is 1 per unit per turn.

Well, those marks went from amazing to terrible in an instant.

They became as situationnal the khorne and slaanesh. They seem fine, remember if your charging your already foghting forst do the slsanesh mark depends on playing vs foght last opponents and being charged.

 

I am willing to bet the khorne one is only when you charge, so largely doesnt serve a purpose when not in melee and if you get charged.

 

I will validate

[Warsmith sargos]

So guys say hi to my source, he/she been following the thread since the start and had some answers to some of your questions.

-Possessed take up 2 spaces in transports.

-land raiders are still bad

-nurgle mark -1 to wound only applies if S=T or if S/2>=T

-tzeentch mark ability is 1 per unit per turn.

On mark of nurgle, you mean its work if T=S or T<S*2?

[DesuVult]

Basically it sounds like the Nurgle mark is that you cannot be wounded on 3s, making it demi-demi-transhuman.

[Clockworkchris]

Basically it sounds like the Nurgle mark is that you cannot be wounded on 3s, making it demi-demi-transhuman.

Cannot be wounded on 2s or 4s.

[TheGodOfHammers]

 

Basically it sounds like the Nurgle mark is that you cannot be wounded on 3s, making it demi-demi-transhuman.

Cannot be wounded on 2s or 4s.

 

But the mark doesn't work if you can be wounded on 3s? That is a really weird rule

Edited March 23, 2022 by TheGodOfHammers

[Clockworkchris]

This is what was wrottennto me verbatim:

Nurgle, if strength equals or is at least double the toughness value then you apply the -1 to wound

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

This is what was wrottennto me verbatim:

Nurgle, if strength equals or is at least double the toughness value then you apply the -1 to wound

So dumb.  It was fine with straight up -1 to wound.  Giving this ability conditions makes it kind of bad.  The vast majority of weapons that pop helllbrutes are str 8 or 9.  Also, the tzeentch mark is grade A trash if it only works once per turn.  It is far too easy to trigger it with small arms fire.  

[acrozatarim]

There must be some sort of miscommunication going on somewhere along the pipeline; I can't imagine they'd go for such a weird precondition on the -1 to wound.

[Clockworkchris]

We might be missing additional information, up to today we thought is was just a flat -1 to wound, now we know that it has conditions. Maybe there are additional conditions.

[Lord Abaia]

Speculation: Maybe the condition is you subtract one from to wound rolls when strength is less than or equal to 2x toughness. Against a T4 legionary S9+ wounds as normal everything else is at -1.

 

Otherwise there's two bands of affected strength ranges and two unaffected strength ranges and that seems... needlessly complicated.

[DesuVult]

This is what was wrottennto me verbatim:

Nurgle, if strength equals or is at least double the toughness value then you apply the -1 to wound

Ah, I had it backwards.  Also, that description makes this possibly the most horribly written standard rule for a faction so far in 9th edition.

Edited March 23, 2022 by DesuVult

[Lagrath]

In an instant, my excitement about mark of tzeentch or mark of nurgle disappeared. Right away, a feeling of "It's Chaos, of course we don't get stuff that's as outright good as all the powercreep in all the other codexes." Hoping I am wrong once full final rules are revealed, but definitely feeling really disappointed right now. 

[Khornestar]

Just a big old shrug to these rumors and codex. For every cool addition there’s some nonsense that smacks of the randumb rules of the past.

[Slave to Darkness]

Im glad Emperors Children still use this dex at the moment, bet when our turn comes around we will loose some of the juicy options like Vindicators just like the Death Guard did. 

[Toldavf]

The vehicles getting no buffs is damned lazy but completely expected, We will have to hold out until the next loyalist marine book for our shared weapons/armour to get any buffs. 

It's a contemptable state of affairs that we will be getting only half the buffs we need but it cant be helped I guess. 

Anyone else hoping for a new defiler model?

[Lagrath]

Vehicles still get Legion traits now though I assume?

[Clockworkchris]

Everything except cultists gets legion traits

[ChargingSoll]

Hey clockworkchris whats your current thoughts on the codex, I know we're missing alot of details but just curious.

[Clockworkchris]

Hey clockworkchris whats your current thoughts on the codex, I know we're missing alot of details but just curious.

With what i know so far, i feel this is a good codex, a lot of thing feel like they got a glow up, and the buffs feel good competively and fluffy. Legion traits doctrines and super doctrine just feel right, and the way things are shaping up is that each legion has multiple ways of building a force. I like options and so far this codex is giving me a ton of them.

 

Even thing like chosen and terminators, which dont seem obvious where they fit yet, if priced correctly do have a place in your army, just probably not the same role as they did before. The simple fact the every infantry is getting 3a base is really great.

[DesuVult]

The more I think of the MoN the worse it gets.  -1 to wound at double S over T would be downgraded mini-transhuman, not a particularly good rule for marines but the -1 to wound at even pushes it a bit over but not by much.  The first problem is how transhuman works on unmodified rolls, as a -1 to wound it can be cancelled out and even reversed if something gets +2 to wound.  The second problem is the breakpoints, it misses most of the things that people like killing marines with.  Even gants are throwing out S5 now to clear out legionnaires.  Going up to T5 catches the S5 shots now but moves the upper bracket to S10+ so S8 and S9 are now unaffected.  A power fist or dark lance treats T4 and T5 the same under MoN.  Which is an issue because you want to guard your legionnaires against heavy bolters and your obliterators protected from dark lances.  Knocking back weapons that wound on 3+ is what you want most of the time and is a prominent reason transhuman is good on T4 and T5 models with mini-transhuman mattering mainly on T3 models who are vulnerable to 2+ from S6 weapons. 

 

Affecting even or double strength feels like an obtuse way to create a newb trap or mirror match rule.  Look at the rule and the units it can take, then look at new unit matchups.  The only melee matchup against a tyranid warrior where this rule can come into affect that I see is for T5 models hit by scything talons as long as the tyranid warrior does not take adrenal glands or if the target is a helbrute.

Edited March 23, 2022 by DesuVult

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Im glad Emperors Children still use this dex at the moment, bet when our turn comes around we will loose some of the juicy options like Vindicators just like the Death Guard did. 

Dear Slave to Darkness, 

 

Buy new models.  

 

sincerely, 

Games Workshop

[Slave to Darkness]

 

Im glad Emperors Children still use this dex at the moment, bet when our turn comes around we will loose some of the juicy options like Vindicators just like the Death Guard did. 

Dear Slave to Darkness, 

 

Buy new models.  

 

sincerely, 

Games Workshop

 

Dear GW. 

 

No. 

 

Sincerely, 

Someone who likes to be able to afford food. :lol: 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Im kind of glad the Mark of nurgle was conditional, was going to be silly having regular chaos marines tougher than plague marines. They are already faster and more killy, can't have everything!

 

Death Guard losing certain things like bikers and raptors makes sense though since they didn't really use them in the lore. Plus I like that DG has units regular chaos can't use and regular chaos has stuff DG can't use. Makes them feel like different factions rather than a supplement to the same codex.