TheGodOfHammers Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I thought they were no longer in the codex? The rumours have said that while the datasheets (minus Noise Marines) are no longer in the codex, you can still take them in an army, they just don't benefit from Legion traits, and we pull their datasheets from their respective books Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 NL WLT - the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves -+D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord -+1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE -fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE Vanger, Warsmith sargos and TheGodOfHammers 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
danodan123 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I thought they were no longer in the codex? The rumours have said that while the datasheets (minus Noise Marines) are no longer in the codex, you can still take them in an army, they just don't benefit from Legion traits, and we pull their datasheets from their respective books Ah gotchya, possibly similar to a legends unit? May be a keyword issue type situation then, or, just simply work, who knows ? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 NL relic -stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12" -vox daemonocus is infantry only Vanger, Khornestar and TheGodOfHammers 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benvarone Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Thanks to you and your source for all this, Chris! I gotta say, I’m getting pretty pumped. One more question (if I can): Is Remnant of the Maraviglia still around? And if so, is it still a reroll wounds aura, or has it changed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Generic stratagems -for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit Does this include heavy bolters and combi bolters?All bolt weapons so thst includes heavy bolters. Could you ask if rubric marines have access to this strat? That is a good question. It's been stated that Cult Marines will have access to army rules (I'm assuming doctrines) but not legion traits. Will they be able to be the targets of strats? They will be able to be targetted by strats , leaker said the bolt strats for +6" and +1ap works on rubric marines TheGodOfHammers 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Generic stratagems -for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit Does this include heavy bolters and combi bolters?All bolt weapons so thst includes heavy bolters.Could you ask if rubric marines have access to this strat? That is a good question. It's been stated that Cult Marines will have access to army rules (I'm assuming doctrines) but not legion traits. Will they be able to be the targets of strats? They will be able to be targetted by strats , leaker said the bolt strats for +6" and +1ap works on rubric marines Oh... black legion rubrics are gonna slap then. -3 bolters with exploding 5s? yikes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith sargos Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 NL WLT - the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves -+D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord -+1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE -fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE Wow quality, good, more legion (IW first ) tomorrow, for our daily crack leaks TheGodOfHammers 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApulianAbaddon Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 LEgion traits and relics for Black Legion please Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodOfHammers Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 NL WLT -+D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord Mark of Khorne Disco Lords are going to absolutely murder, especially with this WT Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DO_IT_TO_IT Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Hey Clockworkchris, thanks for sharing all this with us! Can you share some more about Black Legion? Mostly thinking about relics and warlord traits. Also, do you have anything on what prayers Dark Apostles do have? I know you mentioned they lost the 5++ aura prayer which is a bummer, so just wondering what they can do now. TheGodOfHammers 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Hey Clockworkchris, thanks for sharing all this with us! Can you share some more about Black Legion? Mostly thinking about relics and warlord traits. Also, do you have anything on what prayers Dark Apostles do have? I know you mentioned they lost the 5++ aura prayer which is a bummer, so just wondering what they can do now. Ive been beating that horse to death and no news, gonna let it go for now and focus on the legions. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Anarax Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 You said no new news on the prayers, but do you have anything about the dark disciples? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news Chaos lord -can only have bolt or plasma pistol So no more combi-weapons? :( Maschinenpriester 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news Chaos lord -can only have bolt or plasma pistol So no more combi-weapons? :( Did i stutter? Maschinenpriester, Iron Inspirit, MegaVolt87 and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maschinenpriester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news Chaos lord -can only have bolt or plasma pistol So no more combi-weapons? :(Did i stutter? Oh boy. Thats sad... i guess i have a huge collection of chosen now? I hope the old options make it to legends at least. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 All right roller coaster ride of a morning, I will start woth the bad news Chaos lord -can only have bolt or plasma pistol So no more combi-weapons? Did i stutter? I don't know, did you? I thought you said no more combi-weapons for chaos lords, but that seems really unbelievable since that's been an option for decades! ...but then again so has the jump pack option. GW is really removing some really classic upgrades like jump packs and combi-weapons with this codex it seems, I hope that terminator lords still have access to them at least, since there's one in the termie lord box. ...I guess my combi-melta lord will join my jump pack lord in the good company of my bike and daemonic steed characters in the legends pile... Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) I mean If legionaries go up to the same price as tacticals that means a 6ppm increase for 1 wound, that's wayyyy to steep. They should be 14-15ppm tops. while I agree with you, they will also cite the extra attack and leadership. I am worried about their point cost. In a vacumn, for 6 points you get 100% increases in both Wounds and attacks for a 50% increase in points. You double your combat output and survivability. As datasheet improvments go that's not bad at all. As a counter to my own point, the amount of 2DMG or AP in the game has increased massively but there's still a hefty amount of 1DMG weapons For me, I see the 6point increase as a not only the +1W, A and LD but also: Better Legion Traits, Better Banners, Better Marks, Better strats, Access to "Doctrines", Better WLTs, Better Relics. Better Legion traits and Access to the Doctrines are free and require no other input. Better Strats, Banners, Marks, WLTs and Relics have additional costs either in CP, points or Character support which are all things you were already paying for anyways. A 6 point increase on my Troops is a price I'll gladly pay for such a large boost I mean the extra attack used to be covered by hateful assault, lets not pretend like our offense has increase a crazy amount. It hasn't even increased at all in the first round of combat. Generic WLT -for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength NL WLT -+1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base NL stratagems -if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game So you are saying that after I kill an ork/nid warlord, I have a combo that gives them +4 to combat attrition? tests? "yeah the game went well, I slew his warlord turn 2 with my (insert unit here) then I killed 4 orks in each squad with a bit of shooting. He needed a natural 1 to pass his morale test and only passed his combat attrition on 6+. Naturally everything ran away." More stuff NL relics -claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds -vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions - flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names -Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name) Accursed weapons -And actual lightning claws Well my lord still looks decent, he's trading his jump pack for terminator armor but hey ho. Do the talons of the black hunt still give attacks or is that aspect of them gone? My lord would still be an absolute beatstick with them and the d3 extra attacks just a little slow. Edited March 30, 2022 by Toldavf TheGodOfHammers 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I mean If legionaries go up to the same price as tacticals that means a 6ppm increase for 1 wound, that's wayyyy to steep. They should be 14-15ppm tops. while I agree with you, they will also cite the extra attack and leadership. I am worried about their point cost. In a vacumn, for 6 points you get 100% increases in both Wounds and attacks for a 50% increase in points. You double your combat output and survivability. As datasheet improvments go that's not bad at all. As a counter to my own point, the amount of 2DMG or AP in the game has increased massively but there's still a hefty amount of 1DMG weapons For me, I see the 6point increase as a not only the +1W, A and LD but also: Better Legion Traits, Better Banners, Better Marks, Better strats, Access to "Doctrines", Better WLTs, Better Relics. Better Legion traits and Access to the Doctrines are free and require no other input. Better Strats, Banners, Marks, WLTs and Relics have additional costs either in CP, points or Character support which are all things you were already paying for anyways. A 6 point increase on my Troops is a price I'll gladly pay for such a large boost I mean the extra attack used to be covered by hateful assault, lets not pretend like our offense has increase a crazy amount. It hasn't even increased at all in the first round of combat. Generic WLT -for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength NL WLT -+1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base NL stratagems -if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game So you are saying that after I kill an ork/nid warlord, I have a combo that gives them +4 to combat attrition? tests? "yeah the game went well, I slew his warlord turn 2 with my (insert unit here) then I killed 4 orks in each squad with a bit of shooting. He needed a natural 1 to pass his morale test and only passed his combat attrition on 6+. Naturally everything ran away." More stuff NL relics -claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds -vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions - flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names -Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name) Accursed weapons -And actual lightning claws Well my lord still looks decent, he's trading his jump pack for terminator armor but hey ho. Do the talons of the black hunt still give attacks or is that aspect of them gone? My lord would still be an absolute beatstick with them and the d3 extra attacks just a little slow. Only lost the rerolls Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart1223 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Any info on Red Corsairs WLT/Relics/Strats? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Only lost the rerolls Suck to be on the receiving end of that. Between 8 and 10 attack, 6's double hit and if you're a weakling +1 to wound on a str 5 guy. Oh and forget about feel no pain and wound gates they wont save you. Actually could be strength 6 come to think of it or always strike first instead. Honestly if there's a way to ignore invuns even if it's only vs other chars you probably just made one of the most deadly sub 9 wound models in the game. Oh :cuss death hex is still a thing hmmm. Now I'm not saying I can beat up ghazghul or the nightbringer but If there is any way to make him wound on 4+ or some rerolls he can give it a damn solid try. Maaaan I miss my jump packkkk. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Did i stutter? No but there is an echo in here. Iron Inspirit and Oxydo 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Did i stutter? No but there is an echo in here. Hahaha, seriously i was just joking but the amount of times i get asked on dakkadakka, discord and B&C i juste stop answering the people validating or asking of info that is in the recap post Oxydo, Sarges and Iron Father Ferrum 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Hi Chris, thanks for posting all the leaks, with the NL combat attrition things, do they stack? So if a units under half, add WT add strat, that would be running on 1,2,3,and 4? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewinggubacca Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 What about Fabius Bile, is he still in the codex and what are the chamges? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/69/#findComment-5809802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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