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What to expect from 9e CSM

Marshal Loss

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Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

 

Advance and charge prayer is dank apostle only.

 

Or in dow2 retribution terms its a narcissistic prayer

Stone cold garbage :sad.:  Bit of a shame.  I dont see why you ever want your apostle to advance and charge since his combat ability is limited.

 

if the dank apostle is marked you get the god specific ability in addition to a generic trait you choose. I use the advance and charge late game to get an apostle to clear a far off objective late game.

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

Update post, no new info just a complete compilation

 

CSM doctrine:

  • Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
  • Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
  • Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
  • Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

  • Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
  • cost points
  • Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

  • Khorne: +1S on the charge
  • Nurgle: -1 to wound, IF S=T or S/2>=T
  • Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save (this is per unit per turn)
  • Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

  • vengeance +1 CA
  • wrath +1ap melee
  • flame +1ap shooting
  • excess +1 to hit melee
  • despair 6s to hit = autowound

Prayers

  • basic prayer still reroll all hits in melee
  • +1 to wound in melee
  • -1 to hit (REPLACED) Now it is 1-3 hits always fail, no rerolls allowed
  • 6" aura when doing leadership test roll 2d6 discard the highest & fail action & fight last
  • +1 to hit (GONE)
  • 5++ buble is gone you said (GONE)
  • priest gets +2a(was +3) and +2ap in addition to weapon weapon ap
  • Tzeentch: +d3 wounds (GONE)
  • Slaanesh: advance and charge
  • Khorne: S+2 (GONE)
  • Nurgle: T+2 (GONE)

Hereticus discipline:

  • warptime still there but no charge
  • +1 to hit
  • no invul on 1 ennemy unit
  • 1 model get s+2 & +1a
  • 3d6 each 4+ = 1mw
  • if d6 is bigger then T, then d3 MW and units within 6" take 1mw on a 4+
  • Tzeentch 4++
  • Slaanesh 5+++
  • Nurgle -1 to hit
  • Warptime: unit affected by warptime cannot charge afterwards

Malefic discipline:

  • DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators
  • +1 to wound
  • Bring back a DAEMONKIN model
  • 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge
  • Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it
  • 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit
  • +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

Generic WLT

  • for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength

Generic Stratagems

  • for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit
  • JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
  • JUMP unit : -1 attack
  • daemonforge: +1 BS/WS for daemon engines
  • bikers, if they advance -1 to hit
  • nurgle only transhuman physiology 4+
  • Legionnaires can shoot or fight twice (only source of fight/shoot twice strats)
  • +1 to hit to CHOSEN or TERMINATORS
  • fire frenzy: HELBRUTE at the end of the shooting phase, if it was hit, can fire at the unit that shot at it or shoot at the nearest ennemy unit
  • Another character can have a WLT

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

  • -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
  • +1 to advance & +1 to charges
  • Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

  • 6" aura that cancels obsec
  • +1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base
  • the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves
  • +D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord
  • +1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE
  • fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE

Relics

  • FLY relic (daemon prince only it seems): moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 
  • claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
  • vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions; infantry only
  • flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same
  • stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12"

Stratagems

  • Vox scream: cancels AURAS
  • units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin
  • no fall back strat
  • fall back and charge
  • -1 to hit if fired upon 
  • rerolls to hit if Ld is higher then ennemies (used to be +1 to hit)
  • there are no more stratagems that influences moral
  • lost the stratagem that gives +2 to the charge and +1 to hit in melee from terrain
  • if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game

IW

  • Ignores cover
  • Reduce ap1/2 by 1
  • Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

  • Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

Stratagems

  • 5+++ vs MW
  • -1 damage for core infantry & daemonkin.
  • reduce incoming ap strat is GONE
  • cultist bodyguards are still there

 

WB

  • Charges/HI = reroll hits
  • 5+++ vs MW
  • Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagems

  • no more strat for possessed +1d
  • the auto pass psyker spell is still there
  • the auto save strat has been changed to take 0 damage instead
  • they have 2 strats that affect daemonkin or possessed

 

BL

  • ignore CA
  • +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
  • Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

  • strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.
  • 1 unit can be considered destruction/massacre/slaughter at the same time, core units only

 

Alpha legion

  • -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
  • Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
  • Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

WLT

  • sniper warlord trait
  • redeploy for up to 3.units
  • a cultist buff
  • i am alpharius is still there

relics

  • one turn for battle ennemy strats cost +1cp on a 4+ 
  • power sword with dd3 and causes -1 to hit (GONE)
  • bolt weapons wounds on +2(except vehicules and titanic), ignores cover 
  • the combi bolter relic must be gone since no way foe HQ to get combis (GONE)
  • +2 armor, and transhuman
  • armor with 3d6 movemebt that can "ghostwalk" through units(still there)

Stratagems

  • the sabotage strat is now auto explode
  • fall back and shoot
  • 12" deepstrike denial
  • shoot a unit that deepstrikes nearby
  • forward operatives, pregame move
  • conceal is replaced with untargetable beyond 12"


Emperor's children

  • Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
  • Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
  • wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
  • Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)
  • Noise Marines are troops
  • dont need to pay for slaanesh marks

Stratagems

  • honour the prince is still there
  • the sonic weapons strat does mortal wounds now, no longer +1s +1d


Red corsairs

  • Charge if they advanced
  • Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
  • wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap


Creations of bile

  • +1 str/move
  • Fight after death in melee
  • wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound


''Build a warband'' renegade traits

  • +4" to range other than grenade and relic
  • After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
  • After charging, in melee 6s to hit autowound (khorne specific)
  • In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (tzeentch specific)
  • +1 to wound vs half strength unit (nurgle specific
  • +1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (slaanesh specific)
  • +1 to advance and charge rolls
  • +1 to hit when targetting clossest ennemy unit
  • +1 movement & strength
  • Ignore CA/Fallback and shoot/fallback and charge; but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (All uncompassing; unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)

WE

  • Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Chaos lord

  • base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
  • has access to all melee weapons
  • can only have bolt or plasma pistol

 

Abbadon

  • 8A s10 ap4 d3, 6+ to wound cuases d3 MW (drachnyen pierce)
  • 16A s7 ap4 d1 (drachnyen sweep)
  • always fights first
  • -1 to wound
  • first failed save reduced to 0 damage
  • +1s on the charge
  • can only take max 3 damage per phase
  • full rerolls
  • charge bonus
  • supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)

 

Disco lord

  • +1 to hit VEHICULES in melee
  • Bs2 ws2 s4 t6 9w 6A LD9 2+/5++
  • Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet)
  • Techno virus injector: in engagement range all weapons get +1 damage vs VEHICULES
  • impaler chainglaive: Suser ap3 d2; on the charge +1 to wound
  • the melta mouth weapon is a melta pistol
  • claws and tail are 4 additional attacks @ S6 ap2 d2
  • mechadentritees: 4x s4 ap0 d1
  • ability to wound vehicules: you can corrupt a vehicule: roll a d6 for every wound that a vehicule has on a 6s=1MW (maximum of 6); if you kill an ennemy vehicule in melee you can corrupt 2 different vehichles instead of just 1. The double corruption ability is gained for the rest of the game. Happens in the command phase.

Warpsmith

  • Can heal vehicules
  • +1 to hit for VEHICULES for shooting

MoE (elite slot)

  • Rerolls wounds v char
  • 6" heroic intervene
  • Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends 
  • Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion)
  • Gains a wound and an attack

Dank Apostle

  • all god specific prayers are entirely new
  • cast 1 prayer (stratagem to cast another prayer)
  • no longer has illusionory supplication

MoP

  • Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker
  • Cast 2 deny 1
  • When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast
  • Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12"

Sorcerer in terminator armor

  • can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

  • its a squad, with a banner, a priest and a psyker, + some extra bullet catchers
  • The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
  • psyker: cast 1 deny 1
  • priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
  • squad of 5 models

Lucius

  • gains 3 additional attacks
  • +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

  • can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Huron

  • Gains a toughness,wound, attack & leadership
  • His claw doubles his attacks instead of being a powerfist.

Cypher

  • In the codex
  • can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries (5-10)

  • legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
  • same profile as before but 2W and 2a (3a on the AC) 
  • Ld9
  • loadout:
  • AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
  • Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
  • 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
  • 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
  • 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
  • 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
  • 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Cultist

  • 10-20

Accursed cultists

  • a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
  • 3-6 big models per unit
  • 5-10 small models per unit
  • big mutant at S5 t4 1W & ap2 in melee
  • small mutant are S4 t4 1W & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

  • Are no longuer in the codex
  • Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
  • Always Elites
  • can benefit from army rules
  • Cannot gain a legion trait
  • noise marine weapons are GOOD

Fallen

  • No in the codex

Exalted Champion

  • Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
  • Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
  • Cannot change loadout
  • Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

Chosen (5-10)

  • 3w
  • Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
  •  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
  • can take icon
  • Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
  • Loadout:
  • everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
  • 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
  • 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
  • 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators (5-10)

  • Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
  • 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
  • 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
  • 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
  • 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
  • 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
  • 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
  • 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

  • Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed (5-10)

  • 9'' s5 t5 3w 5a 3+/5++
  • Melee Suser ap2 d2
  • Take 2 slots in transports
  • Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

  • no longer in the book

 

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

  • lost cancel overwatch
  • gained no fallback
  • 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

  • still have the -1LD aura
  • +2a
  • Chainsword and pistol
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 plasma pistols
  • Champ
  • Can take plasma pistol
  • Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

  • is now FA
  • 12" bs3 ws2 s7 t7 9w 6a 3+/5++ (no longer degrades)
  • Assault 3 s6 ap2 d2
  • Melee Suser ap3 d2
  • now gives +1 to psychic tests

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

  • 14" bs3 ws3 t5 3w 3a ld9 3+
  • Replace pistol for chainsword
  • Up to 2 special weapons
  • Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
  • Icon
  • Champ
  • Plasma pistol
  • 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators (1-3)

  • 5" bs3 ws3 t5 5w 4a ld9 2+/5++
  • have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
  • Not core
  • ignore modifier for heavy weapons
  • armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
  • 24'' range
  • Has 3 shooting profiles:
  • Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
  • Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
  • Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs (5)

  • exactly the same as right now but 2w

Noctilith Crown

  • T8 14w
  • Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades
  • Increasing aura every turn of -1l/4++ vs shooting
  • PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION: perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell

Other:

  • The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
  • No way of giving jump pack to characters
  • All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
  • Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

  • Legionaires
  • Chosen
  • Possessed
  • Bikers
  • Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

  • Raptors
  • Warptalons
  • Helbrute
  • Havocs

Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura (these stack among each other):

  • Daemon prince
  • Accursed cultists
  • possessed
  • Chaos spawn
  • Raptors

DAEMONKIN Keyword:

  • Obliterator
  • Master of possession
  • Possessed
  • Warp talon
MegaVolt87 Veteran

MegaVolt87

Posted
Posted

wait a minute I just realized, daemon prince and accursed cultists aren't daemonkin? That kinda sucks, I was hoping that the mutant cultists would be a nice WB troop choice in the daemonkin army.

Keywords can be added later, just like how Necron units had core added to them.

danodan123 Battle-Brother

danodan123

Posted
Posted

 

Did we ever get confirmation of renegade guard in the codex?

 

Apologies if this has already been addressed in the 72 (!) pages here.

 

Nope, they are not. And there is a compilation of all the rumours by the messenger itself 3 posts ahead of yours :biggrin.:

 

 

I thought these were just rumours from one source? It mentions renegade guard getting models on the first page here, albeit, that was some time ago now! 

 

Maybe Clockworkchris could ask his leaker if they can see any rules that might indicate they are coming?

Khornestar Venerable Brother

Khornestar

Posted
Posted

 

 

Any news on The Scourged? I'd hate to have to pick an entirely new subfaction if they aren't part of it anymore...

Just use the Custom Warband traits. Pretty sure you'll be able to make something that fits the Scourged really well.

Would not be surprised if all the specific war bands no longer had bespoke rules.

Gene Aspirant

Gene

Posted
Posted

 

Chaos lord

  • base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
  • has access to all melee weapons
  • can only have bolt or plasma pistol

Exalted Champion

  • Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
  • Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
  • Cannot change loadout
  • Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

 

In the grim darkness of the far future, only Primaris characters can carry big guns...
 
I guess I can abandon the idea of kitbashing myself a Plague Champion from Dow II with a range weapon. I could potentially use the Exalted Champion datasheet, but at this point, it might as well be gone in the next edition, since the model is out of production.
 
It's sad how... sterile the CSM are supposed to become. It's a narrative game still and limitations like these are immersion breaking, as weird as it might sound when talking about list creation. 
danodan123 Battle-Brother

danodan123

Posted
Posted

 

 

Chaos lord

  • base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
  • has access to all melee weapons
  • can only have bolt or plasma pistol

Exalted Champion

  • Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
  • Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
  • Cannot change loadout
  • Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

 

In the grim darkness of the far future, only Primaris characters can carry big guns...
 
I guess I can abandon the idea of kitbashing myself a Plague Champion from Dow II with a range weapon. I could potentially use the Exalted Champion datasheet, but at this point, it might as well be gone in the next edition, since the model is out of production.
 
It's sad how... sterile the CSM are supposed to become. It's a narrative game still and limitations like these are immersion breaking, as weird as it might sound when talking about list creation. 

 

 

Don't give up hope just yet! 

 

These are only playtest leaks / rumours, never know what is to come! 

Clockworkchris Battle-Brother

Clockworkchris

Posted
Posted

Look i am sharing all thisninfo and even I am sceptical abojt the hardcore loadout locking. Termis and chosen i can believe, chaos lords getting gutted and other HQs feels really odd.

 

I am legit only building armless models right now because I am waiting for actual proof.

danodan123 Battle-Brother

danodan123

Posted
Posted

Look i am sharing all thisninfo and even I am sceptical abojt the hardcore loadout locking. Termis and chosen i can believe, chaos lords getting gutted and other HQs feels really odd.

 

I am legit only building armless models right now because I am waiting for actual proof.

 

Nothing wrong with abit of 'armless fun

stayduned Novitiate

stayduned

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hi there,

 

First of all, many thanks to Chris for providing us with so much information :smile.: I am currently building a Black Legion army and of course I have a few questions here.

 

Up to now we could do Chaos Demons without any problems, but the new "Doctrines and Super-Doctrines" make me think, will we lose the Super-Doctrine if we carry a Chaos Demons or Chaos Knights detachment?

 

I also noticed that a Decimator has "Assault" weapons and that could be very interesting in the Black Legion Super Doctrine, right? :smile.:

Edited by stayduned
Sersi Venerable Brother

Sersi

Posted
Posted

 

Advance and charge prayer is dank apostle only.

 

Or in dow2 retribution terms its a narcissistic prayer

Stone cold garbage :sad.:  Bit of a shame.  I dont see why you ever want your apostle to advance and charge since his combat ability is limited.

 

Well its always been trash....so zero net change really.

Sersi Venerable Brother

Sersi

Posted
Posted

 

Hi there,
 
First of all, many thanks to Chris for providing us with so much information :smile.: I am currently building a Black Legion army and of course I have a few questions here.
 
Up to now we could do Chaos Demons without any problems, but the new "Doctrines and Super-Doctrines" make me think, will we lose the Super-Doctrine if we carry a Chaos Demons or Chaos Knights detachment?
 
I also noticed that a Decimator has "Assault" weapons and that could be very interesting in the Black Legion Super Doctrine, right? :smile.:

 

It probably will break Doctrines; but we can still Summon daemons...nevermind.:rolleyes:

Mike8404 Battle-Brother

Mike8404

Posted
Posted (edited)

That would be really nice, also if the Helbrute with Blastmasters will be a legit thing in the codex

I doubt it. That's something that happens when a Legion gets a codex. Since EC aren't this edition, I imagine special EC units aren't happening either

Edited by Mike8404
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