KalmDown Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 To be perfectly honest I think we are restricted by our Imperial cousins being one of the first armies out of the gates since we have so many similarities in weapons. I also think we are a bit restricted yet again by the death guard being released very early. Based on the rumors for possessed (which are in the DG book) it seems this will not be the case. CSM possessed seem significantly more powerful than DG possessed. I don't think that will be the case. We're getting a new Possessed model kit and GW wants it to sell, and it going to come with the new datasheet in the box. The rule is that you use the current datasheet. So, if DG have the same named unit they'll be getting updated rules as well. That is a fair point! I believe DG possessed are called "Death Guard Possessed", so it may be that death guard are left out to dry (again). I really just want to see what our Daemon Princes look like. It's such an iconic unit - I hope they do it justice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I just don't see them having new kit with two sets of rules. When they're trying to simplify the game for new players. It would just take an Update on Warhammer Community to fix the keyword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffrekka Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 To be perfectly honest I think we are restricted by our Imperial cousins being one of the first armies out of the gates since we have so many similarities in weapons. I also think we are a bit restricted yet again by the death guard being released very early.Based on the rumors for possessed (which are in the DG book) it seems this will not be the case. CSM possessed seem significantly more powerful than DG possessed. I don't think that will be the case. We're getting a new Possessed model kit and GW wants it to sell, and it going to come with the new datasheet in the box. The rule is that you use the current datasheet. So, if DG have the same named unit they'll be getting updated rules as well. Our Plague Marines and Rubrics are still 1 wound though so that's not really the case and our Daemon Engines didn't get the WS/BS boost so it stands to reason that whatever happens to possessed in the CSM book won't be ported over to other codexes too. stayduned and petesamd 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 @desuvult You're absolutely right. If you then compare us with the deathguard you will feel sick. Their models have t5 instead of t4 and additionally -1 damage. The Bolters shoot at 24 inches in rapid fire and they have real melee terminators. Oh yes, posessed they have too. For long range/indirect fire they have the crawler. I can't think of anything where we could outdo them. Even the normal marines are absolutely superior to ours they are even better at melee combat than our terminator. Chosen have no real place, not good in melee combat, not good in ranged combat, but both somehow medium-good , and that's exactly what is not useful in the 9th edition I'm afraid this will be a very, very sad codex. And that after all this time... Death Guard just rocked the lowest win rate of a competition last weekend at 30.65%. You're barking up the wrong tree, your codex will do circles around them... Even the current CSM codex did better. https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-joker-mode-pt-1/ Complaining about wargear restrictions is completely valid, specially if you have to redo models. Claiming the codex is going to suck based off some leaks that you have no idea if they are true or not, won't know what makes it into the codex and is only part of a bigger picture is stupid. Lord Raven 19, Bulwyf, Grand_Master_Alpharius and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stayduned Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 @desuvult You're absolutely right. If you then compare us with the deathguard you will feel sick. Their models have t5 instead of t4 and additionally -1 damage. The Bolters shoot at 24 inches in rapid fire and they have real melee terminators. Oh yes, posessed they have too. For long range/indirect fire they have the crawler. I can't think of anything where we could outdo them. Even the normal marines are absolutely superior to ours they are even better at melee combat than our terminator. Chosen have no real place, not good in melee combat, not good in ranged combat, but both somehow medium-good , and that's exactly what is not useful in the 9th edition I'm afraid this will be a very, very sad codex. And that after all this time... Death Guard just rocked the lowest win rate of a competition last weekend at 30.65%. You're barking up the wrong tree, your codex will do circles around them... Even the current CSM codex did better. https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-joker-mode-pt-1/ Complaining about wargear restrictions is completely valid, specially if you have to redo models. Claiming the codex is going to suck based off some leaks that you have no idea if they are true or not, won't know what makes it into the codex and is only part of a bigger picture is stupid. Yes, maybe you are right. I play against Death Guard a lot and I find them extremely strong compared to other marines. My Black Legion army is still under construction, but I worked extra so that everything is possible and magnetized all 15 terminators ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Brothers, we need to stop eating the dough and wait until it's finished baking! I know it smells great but it'll give you a bellyache Leaks are good guidelines on what to expect, not what's for sure happening. Lots changes between playtest packets and even between the final round of playtests and what goes to print. Until you have the book in your hands, everything you read is subject to change Grand_Master_Alpharius, stayduned, RolandTHTG and 7 others 10 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of the Despoiler Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 How is the new chaos codex performing in play tests? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) How is the new chaos codex performing in play tests? Well, if you post about your experience, you'll be insulted and your quality of character will be called into question. My experiences with the limited information we have currently requires a bit of guess work. No strategem costs, few strategems revealed, no warlord traits or relics for most legions, and no points. Without any other options, i've just been running the new traits and doctrine mostly, and just on those alone Iron Warriors feel much more like they should, ignoring a lot of fire and putting out a lot of it. Edited April 8, 2022 by Iron Inspirit Toldavf and Iron Father Ferrum 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesuVult Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 How is the new chaos codex performing in play tests? We don't have point values. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon303 Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Points will make or break so many units in the codex it's really just not a worthwhile experience trying to gauge the codex's viability at this stage. Might be fun to use the new legion traits etc for narrative games but it's nothing more than house rules at that point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Well, our units arent going to be the first codex ever to suddenly double the points cost of our units while giving them +1 wound. +1 wound to GW seems to be anywhere from +1 - +2 points of worth. Most units will go up by perhaps, 15-20% for the big upgrades, like chosen and terminators, but otherwise I don't see too much of our stuff going up or down all that much. Legionnaires are going to be cheaper than Intercessors and i'll bet my hat on that. GW dropped them to 12 for pity, but when they get their buffs, I can see them going up to 18 each. So much negativity here, but I don't have to get dragged into it. I've been having a ton of fun with a dozen friends who play locally. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague _Lord Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 If you want to play with made up rules and points costs then by all means do it but thinking that even slight points changes won't change everything is just wrong. Look at deathguard - poxwalkers went up by 1, terminators by a few points and so on - mildy changes, especially to the Blightlords that "only" got a 5% increase... but somehow my whole list went up by 80points so a whole unit's worth. Points are the defining factor if something is good or not. You can't say "wow the codex is so strong" when you are playing new, unconfirmed rules with old points costs :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 All rules and points costs are made up... ;) Silas7, Iron Inspirit and Iron Father Ferrum 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague _Lord Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 All rules and points costs are made up... Uou know what I meant ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) If you want to play with made up rules and points costs then by all means do it but thinking that even slight points changes won't change everything is just wrong. Look at deathguard - poxwalkers went up by 1, terminators by a few points and so on - mildy changes, especially to the Blightlords that "only" got a 5% increase... but somehow my whole list went up by 80points so a whole unit's worth. Points are the defining factor if something is good or not. You can't say "wow the codex is so strong" when you are playing new, unconfirmed rules with old points costs I've been playing 2k with a 300 point handicap, and still winning. Thats a massive handicap that absolutely will not represent the end game, unless my 10 chosen in the list when up +50 points each. Edited April 8, 2022 by Iron Inspirit Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Points are the defining factor if something is good or not. You can't say "wow the codex is so strong" when you are playing new, unconfirmed rules with old points costs Points are important but now they get updated multiple times a year. Whereas bad or weak rules last whole editions, even multiple editions if your a Chaos faction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesuVult Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 If you want to play with made up rules and points costs then by all means do it but thinking that even slight points changes won't change everything is just wrong. Look at deathguard - poxwalkers went up by 1, terminators by a few points and so on - mildy changes, especially to the Blightlords that "only" got a 5% increase... but somehow my whole list went up by 80points so a whole unit's worth. Points are the defining factor if something is good or not. You can't say "wow the codex is so strong" when you are playing new, unconfirmed rules with old points costs I've been playing 2k with a 300 point handicap, and still winning. Thats a massive handicap that absolutely will not represent the end game, unless my 10 chosen in the list when up +50 points each. Are you playing with stratagems? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sersi Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I've been playing 2k with a 300 point handicap, and still winning. Thats a massive handicap that absolutely will not represent the end game, unless my 10 chosen in the list when up +50 points each. How have you been using your Chosen in games? Taking them in a Rhino or just marching them up the field? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) If you want to play with made up rules and points costs then by all means do it but thinking that even slight points changes won't change everything is just wrong. Look at deathguard - poxwalkers went up by 1, terminators by a few points and so on - mildy changes, especially to the Blightlords that "only" got a 5% increase... but somehow my whole list went up by 80points so a whole unit's worth. Points are the defining factor if something is good or not. You can't say "wow the codex is so strong" when you are playing new, unconfirmed rules with old points costs I've been playing 2k with a 300 point handicap, and still winning. Thats a massive handicap that absolutely will not represent the end game, unless my 10 chosen in the list when up +50 points each. Are you playing with stratagems? Sadly not. I usually end up with 7 CP leftover in recent matches. Without Endless Cacophany and dour duty being gone those were like 75% of my CP usage in 8th. We don't know enough about the strategems and costs for me to comfortably guess. Comfortable enough to keep using things like Veterans of the Long war, but most of my CP was rerolls I took knowing I had lots of cp to spare. I've been playing 2k with a 300 point handicap, and still winning. Thats a massive handicap that absolutely will not represent the end game, unless my 10 chosen in the list when up +50 points each. How have you been using your Chosen in games? Taking them in a Rhino or just marching them up the field? I had 1x5 man who slogged it up to the middle objective's cover, and the other 5 man in a Land Raider. Both of which got in a lot of work, even though the raider group only got out turn 3. Edited April 8, 2022 by Iron Inspirit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montford Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Played a game where the only thing we changed was that my Alpha Legion models had two wounds if previously they only had one. Not much of a change on paper but on the table that was quite a difference, at least to me, although my CSM experience is limited. And I guess that was my farewell game to my mutilators. Iron Father Ferrum 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hello all, Just to keep you guys updated. Like some of of you have noticed ive been rather quiet during the past week and that because i've been rocking the boat a bit much and the eye of sauron is on the lookout. So for right now I am staying quiet while things cool down and hopefully some other people validate my carefully curated wall of text. However that doesnt mean im not collecting info. Once my source gives me the signal i will have a floodgate of info to share, and from what I have learnt today, its fracking lit. Keep dabbing to the dank gods Clockworkchris Voodoom, Sarges, TheGodOfHammers and 15 others 18 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hello all, Just to keep you guys updated. Like some of of you have noticed ive been rather quiet during the past week and that because i've been rocking the boat a bit much and the eye of sauron is on the lookout. So for right now I am staying quiet while things cool down and hopefully some other people validate my carefully curated wall of text. However that doesnt mean im not collecting info. Once my source gives me the signal i will have a floodgate of info to share, and from what I have learnt today, its fracking lit. Keep dabbing to the dank gods Clockworkchris So pacing yourself then?. We still have plenty to discuss while you go hide in the eye of terror for a bit. What are peoples opinions on what the defiler should look like in the new dex? naturally the battle cannon should go up to damage 3, should its indirect fire return? should its auto cannons get a buff or change?, how potent in melee should it be? and can we get a less ugly model for it please?. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
danodan123 Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) I'm wondering, if new possessed models make them more like the now greater possessed, and with the speed boost, a unit of them running with a demon prince might be cool Edited April 8, 2022 by danodan123 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stayduned Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 @Toldavf DG has the new Defiler since their 9th Edition codex. It's cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I'd like to see a new Defiler model for sure, something closer in visual terms to the rest of the Daemon Engines we have now. MadEdric and Marshal Loss 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/78/#findComment-5813870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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