What to expect from 9e CSM

[Clockworkchris]

So I am preparing to test the rules with a 200 point handicap, building night lords, what units should bring and how shou i build them?

 

I was thinking basic 10 man with termies coming down turn 1 being tzeentch to clear chaff with a dreadclaw filled with legionaires and a heldrake. Maybe even some melta bikers. What setup do you guys think i should bring?

 

Legion night lords

[Llagos_Tyrant]

So I am preparing to test the rules with a 200 point handicap, building night lords, what units should bring and how shou i build them?

 

I was thinking basic 10 man with termies coming down turn 1 being tzeentch to clear chaff with a dreadclaw filled with legionaires and a heldrake. Maybe even some melta bikers. What setup do you guys think i should bring?

 

Legion night lords

 

Would love to see some Raptors or Night Lords in there. I'm no expert on Night Lords, but have 10 Warp Talons and a CSM squad as a starting force. Oblits would also be interesting to see how they perform (I mostly play Iron Warriors).

[Toldavf]

So I am preparing to test the rules with a 200 point handicap, building night lords, what units should bring and how shou i build them?

 

I was thinking basic 10 man with termies coming down turn 1 being tzeentch to clear chaff with a dreadclaw filled with legionaires and a heldrake. Maybe even some melta bikers. What setup do you guys think i should bring?

 

Legion night lords

I wouldnt mind seeing some khornate warp talons.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

So I am preparing to test the rules with a 200 point handicap, building night lords, what units should bring and how shou i build them?

 

I was thinking basic 10 man with termies coming down turn 1 being tzeentch to clear chaff with a dreadclaw filled with legionaires and a heldrake. Maybe even some melta bikers. What setup do you guys think i should bring?

 

Legion night lords

I wouldnt mind seeing some khornate warp talons.

 

Especially if you eventually play against Tyranids. Let the Harvest begin. LOL.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Also, Clockworkchris.....Lord Discordant would be cool. As a fellow NL player, I just can't turn down a giant chainglaive.

[Clockworkchris]

Update post, Corrected the CSM doctrine with the true info.

 

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine''; turn 1: Heavy/grenade/Rapid fire
• Massacre ''Doctrine''; turn 2-3: Rapid fire/assault/pistol
• Slaughter ''Doctrine''; turn 4-end: pistol/melee/assault

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS
• cost points
• Marks provide the keyword and a daemonic gift

''Daemonic Gifts'': (Included with mark)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound, IF S=T or S/2>=T
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save (this is per unit per turn)
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

Prayers

• basic prayer still reroll all hits in melee
• +1 to wound in melee
• 1-3 hits always fail, no rerolls allowed
• 6" aura when doing leadership test roll 2d6 discard the highest & fail action & fight last
• +1 to hit (GONE)
• 5++ buble is gone you said (GONE)
• priest gets +2a(was +3) and +2ap in addition to weapon weapon ap
• Tzeentch: +d3 wounds (GONE)
• Slaanesh: advance and charge
• Khorne: S+2 (GONE)
• Nurgle: T+2 (GONE)

Hereticus discipline:

• warptime still there but no charge
• +1 to hit
• no invul on 1 ennemy unit
• 1 model get s+2 & +1a
• 3d6 each 4+ = 1mw
• if d6 is bigger then T, then d3 MW and units within 6" take 1mw on a 4+
• Tzeentch 4++
• Slaanesh 5+++
• Nurgle -1 to hit
• Warptime: unit affected by warptime cannot charge afterwards

Malefic discipline:

• DAEMONKIN unit: warptalon, MoP, possessed, obliterators
• +1 to wound
• Bring back a DAEMONKIN model
• 4+ inv to DAEMONKIN units and enemy's take mortals if they charge
• Beat the models toughness on d6 destroy it
• 6's to hit auto wound for a DAEMONKIN unit
• +1 str or toughness (or both if rolled high on test)

Generic WLT

• for the puposes of CA ennemy units always count as if at half strength

Generic Stratagems

• for bolt rounds +6" & +1ap for the unit
• JUMP unit : Mw on the charge
• JUMP unit : -1 attack
• daemonforge: +1 BS/WS for daemon engines
• bikers, if they advance -1 to hit
• nurgle only transhuman physiology 4+
• Legionnaires can shoot or fight twice (only source of fight/shoot twice strats)
• +1 to hit to CHOSEN or TERMINATORS
• fire frenzy: HELBRUTE at the end of the shooting phase, if it was hit, can fire at the unit that shot at it or shoot at the nearest ennemy unit
• Another character can have a WLT

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec
• +1 CA to ennemies & always consolidate 3" in any direction, even if touching base to base
• the horrible warlord trait of once per battle you can reroll 1 dice for hit, wounds, advance, charge and saves has been changed. It is now once per turn you can auto 6 a dice for hit, wound, advance or saves
• +D3 attacks & warlord is considered always in the slaughter phase... this is evil on a disco lord
• +1 to armor and invul saves in terrain is GONE
• fall back and charge + -1 to hit is GONE

Relics

• FLY relic (daemon prince only it seems): moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 
• claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
• vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions; infantry only
• flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same
• stormbolt plate, infantry only, 2+ save and untargetable beyond 12"

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• units in deepstrike or strategic reserves count themselves as 1 turn earlier. 1cp fo infantry & bikers; 2cp for daemonkin
• no fall back strat
• fall back and charge
• -1 to hit if fired upon 
• rerolls to hit if Ld is higher then ennemies (used to be +1 to hit)
• there are no more stratagems that influences moral
• lost the stratagem that gives +2 to the charge and +1 to hit in melee from terrain
• if you slay the ennemy warlord, +1 CA to ennemies for the rest of the game

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

Stratagems

• 5+++ vs MW
• -1 damage for core infantry & daemonkin.
• reduce incoming ap strat is GONE
• cultist bodyguards are still there

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagems

• no more strat for possessed +1d
• the auto pass psyker spell is still there
• the auto save strat has been changed to take 0 damage instead
• they have 2 strats that affect daemonkin or possessed

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

Stratagem

• strat that lets you change a units legion for a turn.
• 1 unit can be considered destruction/massacre/slaughter at the same time, core units only

 

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

WLT

• sniper warlord trait
• redeploy for up to 3.units
• a cultist buff
• i am alpharius is still there

relics

• one turn for battle ennemy strats cost +1cp on a 4+ 
• power sword with dd3 and causes -1 to hit (GONE)
• bolt weapons wounds on +2(except vehicules and titanic), ignores cover 
• the combi bolter relic must be gone since no way foe HQ to get combis (GONE)
• +2 armor, and transhuman
• armor with 3d6 movemebt that can "ghostwalk" through units(still there)

Stratagems

• the sabotage strat is now auto explode
• fall back and shoot
• 12" deepstrike denial
• shoot a unit that deepstrikes nearby
• forward operatives, pregame move
• conceal is replaced with untargetable beyond 12"

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)
• Noise Marines are troops
• dont need to pay for slaanesh marks

Stratagems

• honour the prince is still there
• the sonic weapons strat does mortal wounds now, no longer +1s +1d

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
• After charging, in melee 6s to hit autowound (khorne specific)
• In melee or shooting, reroll 1 wound or 1 damage (tzeentch specific)
• +1 to wound vs half strength unit (nurgle specific
• +1ap on a 6 to wound unmodified (slaanesh specific)
• +1 to advance and charge rolls
• +1 to hit when targetting clossest ennemy unit
• +1 movement & strength
• Ignore CA/Fallback and shoot/fallback and charge; but with -1 to hit for the rest of the turn (All uncompassing; unmarked specific, so no marks allowed)

WE

• Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Chaos lord

• base loadout is thunderhammer and plasma pistol
• has access to all melee weapons
• can only have bolt or plasma pistol

 

Abbadon

• 8A s10 ap4 d3, 6+ to wound cuases d3 MW (drachnyen pierce)
• 16A s7 ap4 d1 (drachnyen sweep)
• always fights first
• -1 to wound
• first failed save reduced to 0 damage
• +1s on the charge
• can only take max 3 damage per phase
• full rerolls
• charge bonus
• supposedly very pricy (would be around 300 ish points)

 

Disco lord

• +1 to hit VEHICULES in melee
• Bs2 ws2 s4 t6 9w 6A LD9 2+/5++
• Limited to 1 and cant get multiple boosts (i don't understand what this means yet)
• Techno virus injector: in engagement range all weapons get +1 damage vs VEHICULES
• impaler chainglaive: Suser ap3 d2; on the charge +1 to wound
• the melta mouth weapon is a melta pistol
• claws and tail are 4 additional attacks @ S6 ap2 d2
• mechadentritees: 4x s4 ap0 d1
• ability to wound vehicules: you can corrupt a vehicule: roll a d6 for every wound that a vehicule has on a 6s=1MW (maximum of 6); if you kill an ennemy vehicule in melee you can corrupt 2 different vehichles instead of just 1. The double corruption ability is gained for the rest of the game. Happens in the command phase.

Warpsmith

• Can heal vehicules
• +1 to hit for VEHICULES for shooting

MoE (elite slot)

• Rerolls wounds v char
• 6" heroic intervene
• Hits of six does two mortals and the attack ends 
• Axe got worse Doesn't reroll hits Doesn't explode (does with legion)
• Gains a wound and an attack

Dank Apostle

• all god specific prayers are entirely new
• cast 1 prayer (stratagem to cast another prayer)
• no longer has illusionory supplication

MoP

• Has a staff that causes perils in combat with a psyker
• Cast 2 deny 1
• When casting, can cause d3 mortals to a friendly non daemonkin unit to gain +2 to cast
• Enemy psykers suffer one additional wound if they peril within 12"

Sorcerer in terminator armor

• can have a chaos familiar

Cultist HQ squad

• its a squad, with a banner, a priest and a psyker, + some extra bullet catchers
• The banner:rerolls 1s to hit for cultists & +2Ld to cultists
• psyker: cast 1 deny 1
• priest: knows the basic prayer and another, always lands prayer on a 3+
• squad of 5 models

Lucius

• gains 3 additional attacks
• +1 damage if fighting a unit with a 3+ WS

Harken

• can make a raptor unit reroll hit and wound

Huron

• Gains a toughness,wound, attack & leadership
• His claw doubles his attacks instead of being a powerfist.

Cypher

• In the codex
• can only be hit on a 4+

CSM legionaries (5-10)

• legionaries is the new name for the csm troop unit choice
• same profile as before but 2W and 2a (3a on the AC) 
• Ld9
• loadout:
• AC gets a daemon blade (S user ap2 d2; 6s to wound= 1MW); plasma pistol; can choose 1 weapon fron the melee weapons list
• Any of all legionaires can replace bolter for chainswords
• 1 legionaire can take a special weapon
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy weapon
• 1 legionaire can take balefire tome (cast 1/deny 1)
• 1 legionaire can take a heavy chainaxe (S+4 ap4 d2; -1 to hit)
• 1 legionaire can take a chaos icon

Cultist

• 10-20

Accursed cultists

• a squad made of a mix of big mutant and small mutants
• 3-6 big models per unit
• 5-10 small models per unit
• big mutant at S5 t4 1W & ap2 in melee
• small mutant are S4 t4 1W & ap1 in melee

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait
• noise marine weapons are GOOD

Fallen

• No in the codex

Exalted Champion

• Same loadout as the model (power axe, combi melta & pistol)
• Is elite and is now a lieutenant (rerolls 1 to wound @6")
• Cannot change loadout
• Hits better, more wounds, more attacks

Chosen (5-10)

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
•  WS 3+/BS 3+/ 3A (champion 4a)
• can take icon
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits
• Loadout:
• everyone comes with a bolter, bolt pistol and accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolt pistol with a plasma pistol
• 2 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with a combi-weapon
• 1 per 5 chosen can replace their bolter with an additional accursed weapon (S+1 ap3 d1; +1A)

Terminators (5-10)

• Base loadout combi-bolters, accursed weapons (S+1 ap3 d1; +1a)
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolter with autocannon or heavy flamer
• 1 per 5 can replace combi bolter with an extra accursed weapon
• 3 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a powerfist
• 1 per 5 can replace accursed weapon with a chainfist
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolters with up to 2 combi flamers
• 2 per 5 can replace combi bolter with 2 combi melta
• 1 per 5 can replace combibolters with 1 combi plasma

Greater possessed

• Not in the codex (my guess is the models are the new regular possessed models)

Possessed (5-10)

• 9'' s5 t5 3w 5a 3+/5++
• Melee Suser ap2 d2
• Take 2 slots in transports
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon (unit 5 to 10)

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors (unit 5 to 10)

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a
• Chainsword and pistol
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 plasma pistols
• Champ
• Can take plasma pistol
• Power sword or fist

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• 12" bs3 ws2 s7 t7 9w 6a 3+/5++ (no longer degrades)
• Assault 3 s6 ap2 d2
• Melee Suser ap3 d2
• now gives +1 to psychic tests

Bikers (unit 3 to 9)

• 14" bs3 ws3 t5 3w 3a ld9 3+
• Replace pistol for chainsword
• Up to 2 special weapons
• Up to 2 replace combi weapons with combi plas/melt/flam
• Icon
• Champ
• Plasma pistol
• 1 weapon from Melee weapon

Obliterators (1-3)

• 5" bs3 ws3 t5 5w 4a ld9 2+/5++
• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• Not core
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• 24'' range
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs (5)

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

Noctilith Crown

• T8 14w
• Lash has 8 shots and improved strength but degrades
• Increasing aura every turn of -1l/4++ vs shooting
• PRIEST & PSYKER within 9" can perform an ACTION: perform leadership test, if equal or below, gain 1 CP, can also replace 1 prayer or 1 spell

Other:

• The combat patrol is Legionaries/Havocs/Helbrute/Dank apostle
• No way of giving jump pack to characters
• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)
• Each chaos god is getting a couple stratagems, 1 relic & 1 daemon weapon each

Now for icons, here is a list of markable units who can have icons:

• Legionaires
• Chosen
• Possessed
• Bikers
• Terminator

Here is a list of markable units that cannot get icons:

• Raptors
• Warptalons
• Helbrute
• Havocs

Finally here are the units that have a native -1ld @6" aura (these stack among each other):

• Daemon prince
• Accursed cultists
• possessed
• Chaos spawn
• Raptors

DAEMONKIN Keyword:

• Obliterator
• Master of possession
• Possessed
• Warp talon

[KalmDown]

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

[Kaiju Soze]

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

There's a chance of strategems to manipulate the current doctrine. I believe some loyalist chapters have that ability.

[Bulwyf]

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

 

That made me pause as well. 90% of games are over by turn 3. Only getting the melee doctrine to kick in until that late in the game when there's not much left on the table is the typical GW middle finger to Chaos players. 

[Sersi]

 

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

 

That made me pause as well. 90% of games are over by turn 3. Only getting the melee doctrine to kick in until that late in the game when there's not much left on the table is the typical GW middle finger to Chaos players. 

 

Hilarious. On one hand my Noise Marines will get exploding 6 two turns; on the other hand my melee units get double exploding 6's after the games nearly over.   Ha, boy I sure hope we can still take a Chaos  Daemon Detachment without breaking for Mono-faction bonuses. EC at least are going to need some fast melee.

[Marshal Loss]

I would bet on it working the same way as the SM doctrine, where you can choose on turn 3 to switch from massacre to slaughter (& if you don't, it switches automatically on 4), and there will inevitably be ways to manipulate it, so I'm not worried.

[Doctor Perils]

 

My personal guess is we will see a primaris vs chaos box with nee primaris as well in it with the chaos launch.

 

Really excited for both that and horus heresy. Chaos needs some love.

 

I fail to see why there would be any primaris in our launch box. It would be a handful of new chaos sculpts. I'm predicting chosen, new bikers, possessed some kind of character. Maybe a new power armoured sorc, or that demon hammer termi lord from the art.  

 

IIRC last year's B&C leak (that has so far been very accurate) mentioned more in terms of cultists/traitor guard than space marines for the Chaos release. A power armoured sorc was already released a couple of years ago, I'm not sure I can see anything apart from the new bikers and possessed for the Astartes side of the codex (though I'd absolutely love a return of a biker or possessed character of some kind)

 

I would bet on it working the same way as the SM doctrine, where you can choose on turn 3 to switch from massacre to slaughter (& if you don't, it switches automatically on 4), and there will inevitably be ways to manipulate it, so I'm not worried.

I've yet to see doctrines in play since Space Marines came out - when you have a melee oriented trait but a heavy oriented super-doctrine, is it generally ok or does it feel sub-par? I'm running Red Corsairs but I'm worried about the army composition

 

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

I would bet on it working the same way as the SM doctrine, where you can choose on turn 3 to switch from massacre to slaughter (& if you don't, it switches automatically on 4), and there will inevitably be ways to manipulate it, so I'm not worried.

I reckon you're bang on the money here, I can't see any reason why GW would do it any other way than what the loyalist gets.

[MegaVolt87]

So, with the balance update IW's per RAW will be immune to AP 1-3 weapons per RAW. However, I don't think Armour of Contempt is going to stack. Also mark of nurgle (Nurgle: -1 to wound, IF S=T or S/2>=T) is an understandable limit on -1 to wound IF the IW bonus and Armor of Contempt stack. Otherwise its the likely conditional buffs CSM are used to. 

 

I don't want primaris in the launch box, because if there is that increases the chances of scalpers doing a run on the box. Pure CSM the scalpers won't be interested. 

 

EDIT- these IW rules are incredibly stupid, these defence buffs are what DG should have got not an undivided legion. Heck, even IH have more justification for these defensive buffs than IW's lol. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by MegaVolt87

[Galron]

So correct me if I am wrong, if a unit isnt listed in that post then it is unchanged?

Terminator lords are not +1 wound? They do not keep the combi weapons they currently have? 

Vindicators are unchanged? The cannon remains d6 damage? 

 

No change to Havok launchers?

[Plaguecaster]

The suppoawd IW trait is now made useless by armour of contempt as it can't stack with any other rule so basically they only will get ignore cover as their unique legion trait since everyone else gets it already

[Kaiju Soze]

Unless, of course, the legion trait has changed. This is supposedly a first round plates, after all.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The suppoawd IW trait is now made useless by armour of contempt as it can't stack with any other rule so basically they only will get ignore cover as their unique legion trait since everyone else gets it already

They may get what Sallies got in the dataslate: you can't reroll wounds against them.

[Llagos_Tyrant]

 

The suppoawd IW trait is now made useless by armour of contempt as it can't stack with any other rule so basically they only will get ignore cover as their unique legion trait since everyone else gets it already

They may get what Sallies got in the dataslate: you can't reroll wounds against them.

 

 

That would be a nice help against Vengeance for Cadia and Relic of Lost Cadia in my local group.

[Clockworkchris]

 

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

There's a chance of strategems to manipulate the current doctrine. I believe some loyalist chapters have that ability.

No stratagems to manipulate it.

-There is a prayer that lets you do it

-Their is a custom legion trait that lets you do it (its in the above post)

-from the info that i have on 2 legion there is a warlord trait, that depending on the legion letf your warlord be a buff bot or be a self buff bot.

 

Might i just add the i never have issue getting to turn 5, and you shouldnt either.

[Clockworkchris]

So correct me if I am wrong, if a unit isnt listed in that post then it is unchanged?

Terminator lords are not +1 wound? They do not keep the combi weapons they currently have?

Vindicators are unchanged? The cannon remains d6 damage?

 

No change to Havok launchers?

If it isnt listed, it can be for the following reasons:

 

-unit exists in another codex and doesnt need mentionning (ex: maulerfiend, chaos spawn, etc)

-i have not gotten around to asking about it

[Plague _Lord]

 

 

Slaughter doctrine is only turn 4 and 5? That is pretty rough for the legions with slaughter super doctrines.

There's a chance of strategems to manipulate the current doctrine. I believe some loyalist chapters have that ability.

No stratagems to manipulate it.

-There is a prayer that lets you do it

-Their is a custom legion trait that lets you do it (its in the above post)

-from the info that i have on 2 legion there is a warlord trait, that depending on the legion letf your warlord be a buff bot or be a self buff bot.

 

Might i just add the i never have issue getting to turn 5, and you shouldnt either.

 

 

Well, having played in many tournament games and probably more casual games I have rarely gotten to turn 5 in 9th and when I have there are like 2-3 units left on either side and most turn 5's are talked out because the result is more often than not pretty clear by then...

 

I'm pretty sure it will mirror the loyalist rules so turn 3 and onwards.

[DesuVult]

So, with the balance update IW's per RAW will be immune to AP 1-3 weapons per RAW. However, I don't think Armour of Contempt is going to stack. Also mark of nurgle (Nurgle: -1 to wound, IF S=T or S/2>=T) is an understandable limit on -1 to wound IF the IW bonus and Armor of Contempt stack. Otherwise its the likely conditional buffs CSM are used to.

 

I don't want primaris in the launch box, because if there is that increases the chances of scalpers doing a run on the box. Pure CSM the scalpers won't be interested.

 

EDIT- these IW rules are incredibly stupid, these defence buffs are what DG should have got not an undivided legion. Heck, even IH have more justification for these defensive buffs than IW's lol.

Armour of Contempt stacks with All is Dust for TSons. Chris's wording days IW trait worsens AP which means it explicitly does not stack with Armour of Contempt.

[Warsmith Anarax]

 

The suppoawd IW trait is now made useless by armour of contempt as it can't stack with any other rule so basically they only will get ignore cover as their unique legion trait since everyone else gets it already

They may get what Sallies got in the dataslate: you can't reroll wounds against them.

 

The Order of the Valorous Heart who had the reduce ap 1 and 2 by 1, which is what IW are supposed to be getting, lost that trait for armor of contempt. Armor of contempt doesn't work on anything with shields so sacresants get slapped again. I'd say it's a fair guess that IW second trait will be no wound rerolls vs them. I'd say its probably better since the ap reduction does not have a condition on it anymore and we do not have any options that can take shields.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

Might i just add the i never have issue getting to turn 5, and you shouldnt either.

That's rather condescending - there are plenty of reasons why a person's games might not get to turn 5, and even if they did, by that time the ability might have minimal or no effect.  Myself, I would say in at least 75% of my games its clear as of turn 3 who is going to win such that there is no point to continue play.  It is a valid criticism of a central rule to an army if the central rule does not trigger at all for the majority of games and occurs so late that it has no effect at all on the game for those games where it does trigger.