DesuVult Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Loyalist space marines have had lots of issues with their doctrines and usability. It is weird to see arguments in favor of doctrines now. Bulwyf 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Might i just add the i never have issue getting to turn 5, and you shouldnt either. That's rather condescending - there are plenty of reasons why a person's games might not get to turn 5, and even if they did, by that time the ability might have minimal or no effect. Myself, I would say in at least 75% of my games its clear as of turn 3 who is going to win such that there is no point to continue play. It is a valid criticism of a central rule to an army if the central rule does not trigger at all for the majority of games and occurs so late that it has no effect at all on the game for those games where it does trigger. Yeah your right sorry about the condescending remark, some time you just get dealt a bad hand. My true intention behind the remark is that everyone should try to hustle thsir way to being the best player they can. A lot of players when losing or not makong it to the end of the game tend to put blame on oh that army is OP or my army hasnt been updated. While that is true for certain things like harlequins tau and custodes lately, you should always ask yourself what i should have done differently. Best wisdom that was past on to me by a volleyball coach regarding any type of competitive play was this: always reflect on what you could have done better, at the end of the day the only thing that separates you from the winner is the amount of mistakes you committed. Point taken thats not always the only reason but still you can learn something even from and unfair or crushing defeat. Iron Father Ferrum and Grand_Master_Alpharius 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) All valid points, but can easily become or come across as "criticism of rules = poster is a bad player". This is a thread to discuss rumours regarding the new codex, and people are allowed and encouraged to do that, regardless of what their actual or perceived skill level might be. I will not tolerate elitist posts or language that seeks to discourage valid criticism of the rumoured rules changes by implying that only persons who are bad players would make that criticism. Edited April 14, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui Doctor Perils, Iron Father Ferrum, TheGodOfHammers and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 All valid points, but can easily become or come across as "criticism of rules = poster is a bad player". This is a thread to discuss rumours regarding the new codex, and people are allowed and encouraged to do that, regardless of what their actual or perceived skill level might be. I will not tolerate elitist posts or language that seeks to discourage valid criticism of the rumoured rules changes by implying that only persons who are bad players would make that criticism. Thats very fair, sorry again and didnt want to disrespect anyone. Dr_Ruminahui, BadgersinHills, Bulwyf and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Little tidbit to help those who would like to playtest these rumours. I submitted a list to my source and sent me back the points value under 9th codex. Its pretty much a 15% increase in points. So if you playtest with a 300 point handicap at 2000 you should be real close. TheGodOfHammers, RolandTHTG, Dr_Ruminahui and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 The unit of mixed mutants pleases me, giving me good conversion ideas for my Slaaneshi/Hellraiser army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Inspirit Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Little tidbit to help those who would like to playtest these rumours. I submitted a list to my source and sent me back the points value under 9th codex. Its pretty much a 15% increase in points. So if you playtest with a 300 point handicap at 2000 you should be real close. Sweet mathematical validation. TheGodOfHammers and Iron Father Ferrum 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Perhaps armour of contempt is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. techsoldaten 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Might i just add the i never have issue getting to turn 5, and you shouldnt either. That's rather condescending - there are plenty of reasons why a person's games might not get to turn 5, and even if they did, by that time the ability might have minimal or no effect. Myself, I would say in at least 75% of my games its clear as of turn 3 who is going to win such that there is no point to continue play. It is a valid criticism of a central rule to an army if the central rule does not trigger at all for the majority of games and occurs so late that it has no effect at all on the game for those games where it does trigger. Thank you. I have had only two games in all of 9th edition actually make it to turn 5. Almost every game I've played is over by turn 3 because it is crystal clear which side is going to win. Considering how lethal 9th edition damage is that is the case for almost every player. Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to go into the melee doctrine is a terrible rule. Unless you can choose to enter it at turn 3 like loyal marines can which would remove my concerns. techsoldaten 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5815921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 In our narrative campaign games, we play until the end, though you can hide if you want, but generally you try to at least achieve an agenda or kill a unit even if you can't win the game anymore mathematically. petesamd and Hathor42 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Just reread my notes and misread and for chaos doctrines its as following: Des1 Mas 2-3 Sla 3+ So it would work as space marines, turn 3 you choose either to stay massacre or switch to slaughter. Marshal Loss, Iron Father Ferrum, TheGodOfHammers and 7 others 10 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 I didn't realize you can't choose to stay in destruction. Dang. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike8404 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 I didn't realize you can't choose to stay in destruction. Dang. Makes sense. They'll rotate the same way doctrines do for Imperial Marines WrathOfTheLion and Iron Father Ferrum 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalmDown Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 So correct me if I am wrong, if a unit isnt listed in that post then it is unchanged? Terminator lords are not +1 wound? They do not keep the combi weapons they currently have? Vindicators are unchanged? The cannon remains d6 damage? No change to Havok launchers? If it isnt listed, it can be for the following reasons: -unit exists in another codex and doesnt need mentionning (ex: maulerfiend, chaos spawn, etc) -i have not gotten around to asking about it This gives me hope for Daemon Princes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand_Master_Alpharius Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Just reread my notes and misread and for chaos doctrines its as following: Des1 Mas 2-3 Sla 3+ So it would work as space marines, turn 3 you choose either to stay massacre or switch to slaughter. I figured as much, I mean, It didn't make any sense that it would be any different from how the loyalist version works. Edited April 16, 2022 by Grand_Master_Alpharius Marshal Loss, Bulwyf, Iron Father Ferrum and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 So I wonder what our arsenal will look like, ap3 or more just got allot more important. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith sargos Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Well all the acursed weapons got alot better now, i wonder if IW will gain the no reroll to wound against, if they do, damn it will be hard to fight them on objectives Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) Well all the acursed weapons got alot better now, i wonder if IW will gain the no reroll to wound against, if they do, damn it will be hard to fight them on objectives The khorne ones are -4ap with an icon so yeah a whole ton better, same goes for terminators with what ever you arm them with. Khorne is honestly looking way better now, it was good to start with but now it's much more valuable. Edited April 15, 2022 by Toldavf Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Anarax Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Well all the acursed weapons got alot better now, i wonder if IW will gain the no reroll to wound against, if they do, damn it will be hard to fight them on objectives I'm guessing that this will be the case since Order of the Valorous Heart formerly had reduce ap 1/2 by 1 and now has no wound rerolls. TheGodOfHammers and Montford 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
danodan123 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 I wonder if the icon of despair is melee only or if it includes ranged... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand_Master_Alpharius Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Well all the acursed weapons got alot better now, i wonder if IW will gain the no reroll to wound against, if they do, damn it will be hard to fight them on objectives The khorne ones are -4ap with an icon so yeah a whole ton better, same goes for terminators with what ever you arm them with. Khorne is honestly looking way better now, it was good to start with but now it's much more valuable. "Whatever you arm them with" is something that is playing heavily on my mind! I have 5 squads of 5 Termies and they are all specialised, this proposed arming plan is a nail biter and seems so rediculous to me, but I am on the edge of my seat with it. I really hope I don't have to rearm a bunch of decently painted mini's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of the Despoiler Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Any chance of any rumours today clockwork Chris? A nice Easter weekend treat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChargingSoll Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Any chance of any rumours today clockwork Chris? A nice Easter weekend treat. Think he's on lockdown as the massive heresy leak got G-dubs having heavy scrutiny on everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of the Despoiler Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Where is the heresy leak ? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klamoor Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 This gives me hope for Daemon Princes! We already know from TSons and DGuard that, at the very least, they're getting 5-6 attacks base, and the sword profile is improving by +1S and -1AP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/83/#findComment-5816601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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