What to expect from 9e CSM

[Voodoom]

Am I reading it wrong, or could Creations of Bile Chosens get S8 with Accursed weapons on the charge ?

 

S4 base

+ 1 from Creations of Bile

+ 1 from Mark of Khorne 

+ 1 from the "+1 movement & strength" create your warband trait

+ 1 from Accursed weapons

 

With the Icon of Khorne, it would be S8 AP-4. Pretty good against marines with Armour of Contempt.

[KalmDown]

There are some pretty interesting combos from these rumors alongside the recent changes.

 

Assuming Iron Warriors get the no wound rerolls treatment same as salamanders and valorous heart...

 

IW nurgle terminators in light cover, transhuman, hit transhuman prayer.

 

0+ in cover, hitting in 4s with no rerolls, wounding on 4s with no rerolls for very little effort.

[Gene]

Am I reading it wrong, or could Creations of Bile Chosens get S8 with Accursed weapons on the charge ?

 

S4 base

+ 1 from Creations of Bile

+ 1 from Mark of Khorne 

+ 1 from the "+1 movement & strength" create your warband trait

+ 1 from Accursed weapons

 

With the Icon of Khorne, it would be S8 AP-4. Pretty good against marines with Armour of Contempt.

 

The Custom Warband trait for Chosen is already a part of the CoB's trait and I doubt you can simply choose the same trait twice. Same with Black Legion Chosen choosing their own trait again.

[Toldavf]

There are some pretty interesting combos from these rumors alongside the recent changes.

 

Assuming Iron Warriors get the no wound rerolls treatment same as salamanders and valorous heart...

 

IW nurgle terminators in light cover, transhuman, hit transhuman prayer.

 

0+ in cover, hitting in 4s with no rerolls, wounding on 4s with no rerolls for very little effort.

 

Not much will shift that, Honestly not sure I like the armour change, but we needed something with all the ap that has been handed out. I had a test of chain cannons vs marines the other day, their effect is significantly decreased. 

[stayduned]

Yeah all -1 AP stuff vs marines is decreased by 33% vs terminator 50%

[Toldavf]

Yeah all -1 AP stuff vs marines is decreased by 33% vs terminator 50%

My prediction is we will see some of the more tanky lists, take some gt's then it will be limited to core infantry or outright reversed. It really hurts us in the vs marine match up currently as they can get incidental additional ap on their weapons depending on phase. 

 

As for how our new book will cope with it? well ap -2 used to be solid but now not so much so lightning claws are more situational, so are thunder hammers and the possesed before they are even released. My opinion of chosen is reversed the ability to have -4ap is to much to pass up. Similarly khorne termies with fists are strength 10 on the charge with ap-4, hopefully fists will be a generic option. 

 

Our fast attack melee choices became anemic bullies over night, with only ap-2 available they will be a waste of points in a number of match ups. They are still good vs things that aren't marines, which will lead to them being skipped inspite of their improved stats. Bikes boating special weapons are the fast attack kings now. 

 

In heavy support well Havocs are tough but expensive for the firepower that they bring, same goes for obliterators. Neither unit can kill a redemptor with any speed, considering Obliterators may be around 300 points for 3 that's aweful. 

 

In the end we don't have enough ranged ap-4 to make shooting work vs loyalists which is a shame. Will we receive any? I think it's unlikely. Our monster slaying capability is beginning to look like hot garbage. 

 

I hope Chris has something nice up his sleeve or we are basically all going to have to buy a dread blade/forgeword stuff for monster slaying duties.  

[KalmDown]

Remember, obliterators slap quite a lot harder in melee with the new book. 4 attacks hitting on 3s at s10 ap3 d2 is not nothing. Will they be worth 100 points each? It remains to be seen, but they are much more of a hybrid shooty/melee unit than they once were, especially considering they can shoot into melee.

 

I also think regular ol' melta might be interesting in CSM. If the rumors turn out to be true, it gets exploding 6s in every doctrine but the first, so turns 2-5. Not bad.

[Hathor42]

I just want to know the crusade stuff. The recent codexes have had really neat crusade rules.

[Toldavf]

Remember, obliterators slap quite a lot harder in melee with the new book. 4 attacks hitting on 3s at s10 ap3 d2 is not nothing. Will they be worth 100 points each? It remains to be seen, but they are much more of a hybrid shooty/melee unit than they once were, especially considering they can shoot into melee.

 

I also think regular ol' melta might be interesting in CSM. If the rumors turn out to be true, it gets exploding 6s in every doctrine but the first, so turns 2-5. Not bad.

Let us hope that our assault weapon list is expanded a bit so that it isn't just melta. 

[Marshal Mittens]

I wouldn't be surprised to see laser cannons as d3+3 and that would give a big damage boost ro havocs.

[stayduned]

I've written it before. But the Soul burner petard of the decimators is an assault weapon

[MegaVolt87]

Remember, obliterators slap quite a lot harder in melee with the new book. 4 attacks hitting on 3s at s10 ap3 d2 is not nothing. Will they be worth 100 points each? It remains to be seen, but they are much more of a hybrid shooty/melee unit than they once were, especially considering they can shoot into melee.

 

I also think regular ol' melta might be interesting in CSM. If the rumors turn out to be true, it gets exploding 6s in every doctrine but the first, so turns 2-5. Not bad.

 

With no warp time the glacial pace of oblits will mean they will never see melee IMO. And if they do, it will be a throw away unit they will scrap in one charge, then sit in the open waiting to be shot to pieces. A ten man unit of naked termi's would be more annoying and a better bullet magnet.  A single oblit, backed up with a MSU of flamer spam fist termi's is a better combo based off these rumours. Which is annoying, as it seems we are doubling down on MSU and termicide style tactics and FW units, the single knight. 6 power CSM rumour is less than encouraging also. Even DG aren't worth the primaris points they are and CSM infantry won't be worth that premium either. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by MegaVolt87

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

 

Yeah all -1 AP stuff vs marines is decreased by 33% vs terminator 50%

My prediction is we will see some of the more tanky lists, take some gt's then it will be limited to core infantry or outright reversed. It really hurts us in the vs marine match up currently as they can get incidental additional ap on their weapons depending on phase. 

 

As for how our new book will cope with it? well ap -2 used to be solid but now not so much so lightning claws are more situational, so are thunder hammers and the possesed before they are even released. My opinion of chosen is reversed the ability to have -4ap is to much to pass up. Similarly khorne termies with fists are strength 10 on the charge with ap-4, hopefully fists will be a generic option. 

 

Our fast attack melee choices became anemic bullies over night, with only ap-2 available they will be a waste of points in a number of match ups. They are still good vs things that aren't marines, which will lead to them being skipped inspite of their improved stats. Bikes boating special weapons are the fast attack kings now. 

 

In heavy support well Havocs are tough but expensive for the firepower that they bring, same goes for obliterators. Neither unit can kill a redemptor with any speed, considering Obliterators may be around 300 points for 3 that's aweful. 

 

In the end we don't have enough ranged ap-4 to make shooting work vs loyalists which is a shame. Will we receive any? I think it's unlikely. Our monster slaying capability is beginning to look like hot garbage. 

 

I hope Chris has something nice up his sleeve or we are basically all going to have to buy a dread blade/forgeword stuff for monster slaying duties.  

 

I would love to see them add some more "old school 30K style" heavy weapons to provide a level playing field with the loyalists. I don't mean the same weapons I mean something different, but of equal power. Las going D3+3 would be an awesome thing and would certainly go a long way to bringing back landraiders onto the field. Obliterators losing assault from thier weapons is a crying shame! I really hate the lack of randomness that is being promoted for them.

[Khornestar]

All things a matter of taste but I am not a fan of random stats on their guns at all. Having to rotate guns each turn wasn’t perfect, but I liked that much more. Having a stable set of profiles to choose from is the best yet for my taste. Really hope it’s true!

[KalmDown]

 

 

Remember, obliterators slap quite a lot harder in melee with the new book. 4 attacks hitting on 3s at s10 ap3 d2 is not nothing. Will they be worth 100 points each? It remains to be seen, but they are much more of a hybrid shooty/melee unit than they once were, especially considering they can shoot into melee.

 

I also think regular ol' melta might be interesting in CSM. If the rumors turn out to be true, it gets exploding 6s in every doctrine but the first, so turns 2-5. Not bad.

With no warp time the glacial pace of oblits will mean they will never see melee IMO. And if they do, it will be a throw away unit they will scrap in one charge, then sit in the open waiting to be shot to pieces. A ten man unit of naked termi's would be more annoying and a better bullet magnet. A single oblit, backed up with a MSU of flamer spam fist termi's is a better combo based off these rumours. Which is annoying, as it seems we are doubling down on MSU and termicide style tactics and FW units, the single knight. 6 power CSM rumour is less than encouraging also. Even DG aren't worth the primaris points they are and CSM infantry won't be worth that premium either.

I'm not claiming obliterators are good, much less melee powerhouses, only that - according to these rumors - they seem to have absorbed the role of mutilators. They will also likely be a unit that requires support, and they do have one mobility advantage that is easy to overlook: the Daemonkin keyword, a resurrection spell, and big ol' bases. If you lose an obliterator, a MoP can bring one back within 2" of the unit, basically giving just shy of 4 extra inches of movement if needs be. Not something to base your plan around, but you will catch people out.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I disagree that they will never see meaningful combat. Maybe not against Tau or Guard, but many armies will be sending tough brawler units to the middle - someplace even obliterators shouldn't have much problem getting to.

 

This whole "legionnaires are 6 power" hysteria kind of confuses me. Of course they are going to be more power than intercessors. They have, as far as I can tell, the exact same stat line, very similar rules (sans shock assault), but can be upgraded much, much more than intercessors. Did people think the ability to take special weapons, heavy weapons, melee weapons, or a psyker would be free. And that's to say nothing of marks and icons, which may or may not already be baked into the power of the unit. It will very likely be that 5 naked legionnaires will be the same points or less than 5 intercessors.

[Warsmith sargos]

 

 

Remember, obliterators slap quite a lot harder in melee with the new book. 4 attacks hitting on 3s at s10 ap3 d2 is not nothing. Will they be worth 100 points each? It remains to be seen, but they are much more of a hybrid shooty/melee unit than they once were, especially considering they can shoot into melee.

 

I also think regular ol' melta might be interesting in CSM. If the rumors turn out to be true, it gets exploding 6s in every doctrine but the first, so turns 2-5. Not bad.

With no warp time the glacial pace of oblits will mean they will never see melee IMO. And if they do, it will be a throw away unit they will scrap in one charge, then sit in the open waiting to be shot to pieces. A ten man unit of naked termi's would be more annoying and a better bullet magnet. A single oblit, backed up with a MSU of flamer spam fist termi's is a better combo based off these rumours. Which is annoying, as it seems we are doubling down on MSU and termicide style tactics and FW units, the single knight. 6 power CSM rumour is less than encouraging also. Even DG aren't worth the primaris points they are and CSM infantry won't be worth that premium either.

I'm not claiming obliterators are good, much less melee powerhouses, only that - according to these rumors - they seem to have absorbed the role of mutilators. They will also likely be a unit that requires support, and they do have one mobility advantage that is easy to overlook: the Daemonkin keyword, a resurrection spell, and big ol' bases. If you lose an obliterator, a MoP can bring one back within 2" of the unit, basically giving just shy of 4 extra inches of movement if needs be. Not something to base your plan around, but you will catch people out.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I disagree that they will never see meaningful combat. Maybe not against Tau or Guard, but many armies will be sending tough brawler units to the middle - someplace even obliterators shouldn't have much problem getting to.

 

This whole "legionnaires are 6 power" hysteria kind of confuses me. Of course they are going to be more power than intercessors. They have, as far as I can tell, the exact same stat line, very similar rules (sans shock assault), but can be upgraded much, much more than intercessors. Did people think the ability to take special weapons, heavy weapons, melee weapons, or a psyker would be free. And that's to say nothing of marks and icons, which may or may not already be baked into the power of the unit. It will very likely be that 5 naked legionnaires will be the same points or less than 5 intercessors.

 

you are right

usually power level also include some wargear inside

and dont forget they also have makrs inside

people 

dont forget, gw can always remove the army of contempt if they see it fit.

i wished they will just balance the weapons in every codex instead of this kind of rules.... but it will require work and actully know what you want to do... so yeah.. never i guess 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Warsmith sargos

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Three attacks base confirmed. Thank you CWC!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/18/two-wounds-are-only-the-beginning-for-chaos-space-marine-legionaries/

[Clockworkchris]

Three attacks base confirmed. Thank you CWC!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/18/two-wounds-are-only-the-beginning-for-chaos-space-marine-legionaries/

Heavy chainaxe profile and daemon blade confirmed

[Toldavf]

Three attacks base confirmed. Thank you CWC!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/18/two-wounds-are-only-the-beginning-for-chaos-space-marine-legionaries/

We are gonna need more heavy chain axes

[Khornestar]

Awesome to see the info validated!

[Cheex]

Another tidbit confirming the leaks. I love the subtle nod to the leaks in the article, too.

 

Thanks again CWC and the anonymous source. Time to start seriously thinking about the army!

[Marshal Mittens]

How many heavy chain axes can a unit take I wonder?

 

 

And tes, thanks CWC for sharing so much! Very hyped!

Edited April 18, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[Kaiju Soze]

How many heavy chain axes can a unit take I wonder?

 

I would guess 1 per unit (both how many are on sprue and how many show up in the photos).

[Sandviper]

Eagerly waiting the Eye of Sauron to look elsewhere so some more information can be given! 

[Iron Inspirit]

Bunch more leaks confirmed this morning.

Its all but 100% true for me now.