What to expect from 9e CSM

[Khornestar]

I think they’ll stick to their description of drip-feeding, so expectations are quite low. Model reveal for the thing in the silhouette and naught else.

[Marshal Mittens]

They are going to show off CSM models at the event on the 4th. Edited April 26, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[Iron Father Ferrum]

They are going to show off CSM models at the event on the 4th.

Are you assuming...or do you Know?

[Khornestar]

If they end up showing possessed and bikers in addition to the cultists, that would be pretty swell.

[Warsmith Anarax]

If they end up showing possessed and bikers in addition to the cultists, that would be pretty swell.

Isn't that all we're supposed to get?

[Gene]

 

Isn't that all we're supposed to get?

 

Based on the very first BT leak, we are supposed to get new Possessed, Bikers, a HQ Cultist squad, Mutant Cultists (possibly the preview silhouette), Cultists and Renegade Guard.

[Cheex]

Tiny, tiny tidbit from Reddit regarding World Eaters:

 

 

This is one of the Eldar playtest leakers.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Cheex

[Khornestar]

That makes sense given the situation with Berzerkers Clockworkchris described with the cult troops. Hope they keep fight twice!

[Cheex]

That makes sense given the situation with Berzerkers Clockworkchris described with the cult troops. Hope they keep fight twice!

 

I'll be honest, if Berzerkers just got a couple of extra attacks instead of fighting twice, I would not be upset. With the exception of movement shenanigans, being able to fight twice is a disadvantage compared to simply making more attacks - I can't tell you the number of times I've been stung by the Counter Offensive strat in between swings.

[Sception]

I honestly doubt we'll see significant rule changes to berzerkers in a temporary pdf situation, assuming that's what happens. The extra wound, maybe, but I doubt anything else.

[Khornestar]

Big picture I don’t doubt the efficiency of a few more attacks vs fight twice, but I love the mechanic even with drawbacks. Just fun and cool, though the number of dice can be absurd at times. I run 6 unit msu so they can interrupt one but at least another is coming at ‘em unless I’ve botched my rerolled charges, as is my fate.

 

I think Sception might have the right of it until codex WE though. 2 wounds and AoC (and hopefully death to the false emperor in its current form, so unlikely) is fine to tide me over. Not having a legion bonus is a bit of a bummer, though.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Khornestar

[MegaVolt87]

WE PDF kinda makes sense, happened to BT before their book dropped, plausible at the least. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

That could simply be conjecture - I said the exact same thing in this thread months ago when Clockworkchris mentioned they weren't in the Codex.

 

They did this with Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves, my guess is there will be a WE index using Codex: Chaos Space Marines until the Codex is out.

 

I would figure there would be a PDF for Berserkers, it's not exactly a spoiler that World Eaters are coming if they release Codex: Chaos Space Marines and they're not in it, they've given it away at that point.

 

There would need to be a temporal PDF supplement for World Eaters, like they did with Dark Angels/Space Wolves/Deathwatch/Blood Angels when Codex: Space Marines was released.

 

It's almost certainly the likely outcome, though, regardless of if they're in the know or not. I think it's inevitable, they have to do it that way.

Edited April 27, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Grand_Master_Alpharius]

Big picture I don’t doubt the efficiency of a few more attacks vs fight twice, but I love the mechanic even with drawbacks. Just fun and cool, though the number of dice can be absurd at times. I run 6 unit msu so they can interrupt one but at least another is coming at ‘em unless I’ve botched my rerolled charges, as is my fate.

 

I think Sception might have the right of it until codex WE though. 2 wounds and AoC (and hopefully death to the false emperor in its current form, so unlikely) is fine to tide me over. Not having a legion bonus is a bit of a bummer, though.

I totally agree, just based off of mathmatics alone, fight twice is far superior to a couple of extra attacks now. I'd take fight twice any day.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Grand_Master_Alpharius

[Excessus]

Didn't we already know about the pdf from somewhere?

[Cheex]

Didn't we already know about the pdf from somewhere?

 

I don't recall seeing anything solid before now, only conjecture and "I could've sworn I read somewhere..." posts like yours.

 

That could simply be conjecture - I said the exact same thing in this thread months ago when Clockworkchris mentioned they weren't in the Codex.

 

They did this with Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves, my guess is there will be a WE index using Codex: Chaos Space Marines until the Codex is out.

 

I don't think this is conjecture. Ok_Entrepeneur3004 was one of the sources of the big Eldar leaks last year. They seem to be in the know.

 

But I don't see Index: WE being just a supplement to Codex: CSM. The eventual Codex: WE is unlikely to have very many units in common with CSM, so it would seem unlikely to me for GW to make the Index a supplement only to take away half their units when Codex: WE comes out.

 

Unless, of course, the plan is to roll all the god-specific Legions into semi-standalone supplements rather than separate Codexes. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I don't think they're going to use the Supplement model for the Big Four Chaos armies.  They might for one or two, but look at Death Guard -- a massive portion of their model range is unique to them rather than being something drawn from the shared Chaos model range.  TS on the other hand don't repeat that model, as they only have a few units unique to them in comparison; their entire selection of armor, for example, is just baseline Chaos vehicles.  Considering precedent though, I think both EC and WE will be standalone codices because DG and TS are standalone codices.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm sure WE and EC (eventually) will be standalone codexes following the DG and TS trend. The more legion specific units they get, the less regular chaos marine units they will get to use.

[techsoldaten]

I don't think they're going to use the Supplement model for the Big Four Chaos armies.  They might for one or two, but look at Death Guard -- a massive portion of their model range is unique to them rather than being something drawn from the shared Chaos model range.  TS on the other hand don't repeat that model, as they only have a few units unique to them in comparison; their entire selection of armor, for example, is just baseline Chaos vehicles.  Considering precedent though, I think both EC and WE will be standalone codices because DG and TS are standalone codices.

 

While GW's vision for God-specific Legions is Codexes, the Supplement model has some good things to offer. Wish they would explore it more for Chaos.

 

Feels like we're always clamoring for rules that better fit the fluff, or bring an army in-line with the current meta. Supplements might be a better way to target those kinds of issues.

 

I know, from a sales standpoint, this means GW would be targeting a specific subfaction and getting lower sales as a result. Feels like model sales are what determine Codex vs Supplement for anything aside from LSMs.

[Prophet of the Despoiler]

A black legion codex/ supplement would be amazing. Bring the characters from the BL novels over into the game. Have the Aphotic Blade/ Bringers of Despair as a unit simulator to DW Knights.

[Sception]

I wouldn't mind supplements for the non-cult legions, but despite Black Legion being my personal favorite, I don't think they'd be the ideal candidates for it, at least not first up.  If the generic Chaos Marine Codex is supposed to represent any faction at all, it would be the Black Legion.  The other legions & non-legion groups are defined by their differences from that standard.  IW, NL, AL, and WB also currently lack special characters of their own, where as Black Legion has a couple and doesn't particularly need more than that.

 

Then again, that didn't stop Black Legion from getting a supplement in the past.  I suppose GW decides these things more on popularity than need.

 

One thing I definitely disagree with, even if the Black Legion does get a supplement is the idea of putting out official 40k rules and models for the original characters from ADB's novels.  Doing that would tie ADB's hands when writing those characters going forward.  What if he decides he wants to write a scene where Khayon kills Telemachon?  If Telemachon is canonically alive and well in the 40k game he can't do that.  What if he wants to write one of the side characters becoming a daemon prince?  He can't do that if in the future they're still canonically a mortal chaos marine - or as mortal as chaos marines get anyway.  We've already seen how dramatically even Khayon can change in just the first two books, trading his axe for a sword, changing familiars, etc.  The few interrogation scenes set in the 40k era don't really tell us what he looks like in modern 40k, but they DO make it clear that even book 2 Khayon is still far, far removed from whatever he's become by the 'modern' time period.  Locking him in place with a specific 40k era model would at best spoil that evolution, and at worse prevent it altogether.

 

These are ADB's characters, and ADB should be free to do what he wants with them unless and until he's sure he's absolutely done with them.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I agree with you about not giving said characters rules & models, but these are not ADB's characters. They're GW's characters. ADB may have created them and given them life, but GW approved them and GW owns them. So if GW wants to make Khayon model, ADB can do :cuss all about it.

 

He actually ran into this problem before. He stated at some point that he had to rewrite a significant portion if The Emperor's Gift because of the changes to the Grey Knights that were published in the 5th edition C:GK.

[Sception]

ADB may have created them and given them life, but GW approved them and GW owns them. So if GW wants to make Khayon model, ADB can do all about it

I was saying what I think GW should do, not what I think they are or aren't allowed to do according to the arbitrary legal fiction of 'Intellectual Property'.

[techsoldaten]

I agree with you about not giving said characters rules & models, but these are not ADB's characters. They're GW's characters. ADB may have created them and given them life, but GW approved them and GW owns them. So if GW wants to make Khayon model, ADB can do all about it.

 

He actually ran into this problem before. He stated at some point that he had to rewrite a significant portion if The Emperor's Gift because of the changes to the Grey Knights that were published in the 5th edition C:GK.

 

I don't think the issue is with IP, it's about continuity. Burning the candle at both ends leaves you with little space in the middle.

 

The thing about fleshing out Black Legion characters in-game: they would have to do the same with characters for other legions. GW has gifted writers who have created a robust stable of characters, giving each their due would take a lot of work.

 

GW is probably better off leaving this to kitbashers who can represent characters the way they choose. Just because a character is awesome doesn't mean he needs special rules.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Discounting Heresy characters, I would point out that at the very least we now have a model and rules for Uriel Ventris so that particular hurdle has already been jumped.